Critique Genos2..by owners?

[Oldden]

Hi Hawklord, Music is either in your blood or it's not. My Aunt had a harmonium with pedals to supply air. My parents had a piano and  I met and married a girl who had a Farfisa organ,sadly neither is still with me. I will be 77 in two months and have a Genos1, a Psr3000, 4 guitars including a cigar box one, two ukuleles and a midi keyboard. My wife asked me, what do you want for Christmas, a classical guitar, it's here but I'm not allowed to touch it. Ahhhhhhh.

[mikf]

My grandson is 30,years old and a commercial producer of EDM. As you would expect he is a whizz at synths and computer based sound production. But when he sits down to play for himself, it's his guitar. And what does he play - not EDM, but old jazz standards.
I don't think the thirst to actually play music will die, and the urge many experience as they get older to wish they had learned, is not generational, so it will continue. The home organ and then the arranger have made this late learning much more possible for over 50 years, so I expect it to continue in some form.
For me the most likely development in arrangers is not obsolescence and movement to more computer based, but the merging of conventional instruments with the arranger, and synth type technology at the top end, and very cheap throw away instruments at the bottom end. Instruments like the DGX or the CVP are the future at the top end. Read Yamaha's annual report, that's what they believe.
Mike

[GrannyRocks]

I am glad this discussion has taken a turn and we are talking about music and how people relate to it. Personally, I don't particularly want an arranger. If I could buy a keyboard with the same sounds as the G2, I would prefer it, and most times I don't use the arranger function. The left hand drives me crazy. I actually want to play a variety of notes and each time I do that accidentally, I have changed to the wrong chord! Plus at my lack of skill level, the technology feels so rigid. I love to improvise and just be free. But no one has said you can get the same sounds in another keyboard and have it portable. I can do that with my Roland Fantom 08, and it has an action I can handle, but I don't like the sounds. To me, they are too electronic, and that does not move me. Playing the G2 guitar and the saxes and other instruments speaks to me and the styles can be fun on occasion. But when I want to express my soul, I am at the piano or using the Genos for the instruments. But I am also very disabled. Other than the piano, I can't play any other instrument, and the piano is difficult.

But I am thrilled that people are creating their own way of being involved in music. There was a time when there were no electronic instruments, but there also was no TV or internet, and people played music in their homes and local communities. There were very few international stars, who concertized and toured, but music was integrated into our lives and there weren't so many opportunities to be a star. Then along came television and the internet. Now everybody pretty much can record and get their music out to the world. That's good and bad. People become obsessed with being popular and making it and looking for attention (and don't I?), and that's not good. But at least people are creating music in their homes and playing in their communities at bars, restaurants, communities centers and that's good.

Occasionally I see people on these forums making themselves look important because they are professionals and not home users. (I am actually a semi-pro.) And I understand that gigging musicians have some different needs, but being pro doesn't make you good, and being a home user doesn't mean you are necessarily less talented or skilled.

Music is one way we avoid going crazy. Thank God for it.

[spaceair]

Hello! I'm interested in something completely different.. is the electronic sound anomaly still present.. it was most noticeable in older models if you played, for example, the E2 and G2 tones on the
voice piano at the same time.. does it now sound nice and natural or will it still hurt your ears some electronic sound? I hope it's not too weird a question..

[Christophermoment]

I'v not a single problem with fair critique, but here is the subject= 'critique Genos2 ... by owners'.

Even a gentle reminder didn't help. 

[soundphase]

Hello! I'm interested in something completely different.. is the electronic sound anomaly still present.. it was most noticeable in older models if you played, for example, the E2 and G2 tones on the
voice piano at the same time.. does it now sound nice and natural or will it still hurt your ears some electronic sound? I hope it's not too weird a question..

I have been a proud owner for one week now.

Thanks to the new reverb, the same samples as G1 seem more real. As they would be closer to you.

For me, it's easier on Genos 2 to get a global good and rich sound with fewer instruments.

But you don't have a real piano. And all real piano have not the same sound.

[overover]

... Personally, I don't particularly want an arranger. If I could buy a keyboard with the same sounds as the G2, I would prefer it, and most times I don't use the arranger function. The left hand drives me crazy. I actually want to play a variety of notes and each time I do that accidentally, I have changed to the wrong chord! Plus at my lack of skill level, the technology feels so rigid. I love to improvise and just be free. ...

Hi Beth,

Maybe the Full Keyboard chord recognition will suit you more. If you haven't tried this yet, please go to "Menu > Split Point & Fingering" (or press "Direct Access > ACMP") and try out the fingering types "Full Keyboard" and "AI Full Keyboard". (See also the attached screenshot.)

By the way, if you want to avoid Registrations changing the fingering type, you can lock this in "Menu > Utility > Parameter Lock".


Best regards,
Chris

[GrannyRocks]

Hi Beth,

Maybe the Full Keyboard chord recognition will suit you more. If you haven't tried this yet, please go to "Menu > Split Point & Fingering" (or press "Direct Access > ACMP") and try out the fingering types "Full Keyboard" and "AI Full Keyboard". (See also the attached screenshot.)

By the way, if you want to avoid Registrations changing the fingering type, you can lock this in "Menu > Utility > Parameter Lock".


Best regards,
Chris

Thanks, Chris. Does that mean the chord won't change with every note? God, I would love that. I'll try it. Hugs.

[mikf]

I don't think it is possible to drive accompaniment in any mode the way she plays because it's random notes and no recognizable chord fingerings would be detectable by the keyboard.
Mike

[overover]

I don't think it is possible to drive accompaniment in any mode the way she plays because it's random notes and no recognizable chord fingerings would be detectable by the keyboard.
Mike

If I were Beth, I would at least try it. It might also be worth trying to set "Fingered" instead of the default setting "AI Fingered". (With "Fingered" you have to play at least three notes at the same time to change the chord.)


Best regards,
Chris

[GrannyRocks]

If I were Beth, I would at least try it. It might also be worth trying to set "Fingered" instead of the default setting "AI Fingered". (With "Fingered" you have to play at least three notes at the same time to change the chord.)


Best regards,
Chris

Now that might help. At the same time? So if I play a broken chord or a run, that shouldn't change anything..... Can't wait to try it. Gotta work for a little while first.

[GrannyRocks]

If I were Beth, I would at least try it. It might also be worth trying to set "Fingered" instead of the default setting "AI Fingered". (With "Fingered" you have to play at least three notes at the same time to change the chord.)


Best regards,
Chris

Is that whole keyboard fingered or just left?

[mikf]

If you set full keyboard you are almost certain to have three notes playing so yes, chords would change pretty much with every note.
Mike

[ton37]

Even a gentle reminder didn't help. 

Yeah, unfortunately it is no different in the world and surrounding areas. All those countless rules, standards of decency, forum discipline... get rid of them because what should we do with them? Life is complex enough as it is.. it could be that I didn't write this but that it was done by AI without me knowing about it.. 

With regards,
AI

[alvaromrocha]

As someone who often gets a peek behind the scenes: (and in fact, I had a hand in designing the CVP309PE, which is why I can't ever bear to sell mine)

Yes, nearly all content from one model will make it into the next model (for backwards compatibility); and the stuff that doesn't make it, consumers immediately notice and cry fowl (missing Tyros 5 styles from G1, anybody?)

The casing looks similar. The insides are quite different.
The G2 contains the CLP785 piano sample, the G1 did not. There is now a *brand redacted but the most enduring American/German brand of acoustic* piano, which the G1 sorely lacked.

To quote: ". Most of the sounds are using brand new samples, and everything is now going through what we call REVelation reverb, a groundbreaking sound processor developed by Steinberg. "

As Eileen and a few others put it: It now sounds *real*


Is it an absolute shame they didn't implement SSS? yes. Baffling to me. But to go around claiming the G2 is just a G1 is ridiculous.

ton37 put it rather succinctly above. Yes there may be more things we were expecting due to marketing, and you (we) are all allowed to be underwhelmed by that. But they are most certainly not the same thing.

However, that perception is understandable given that the CVP809 and 909 are *nearly* identical, but that's for a completey different reason I'm not allowed to get into yet. But that's the exception to the norm, not the norm.


Mark

The insides are the same.
You can upload 8 velocity layer samples into the Genos 1 too.

Just call it what it is then, a minimal upgrade to make up for the failed promises on software upgrades (which would completely do that job, in genos context)., a broken promise boding for a no good future proofing Genos 2.

It's a great keyboard IF you don't already own Genos 1.
Juat not any thing near a "phenomenal" upgrade in any way, shaoe or form - features wise - from those with the previous already great, which could have the same, minus chosmetics, with just a software upgrade.

[GrannyRocks]

If I were Beth, I would at least try it. It might also be worth trying to set "Fingered" instead of the default setting "AI Fingered". (With "Fingered" you have to play at least three notes at the same time to change the chord.)


Best regards,
Chris

This is helping a lot. I got rid of the AI Fingering. And left it as lower fingering. I can now usually play notes, runs, melodies in the bassline. Sometimes it gets mixed up and changes the chord, but usually not. It's weird, of course, because I have to be absolutely sure that I don't keep a pedal or a finger on another note. Theoretically it needs 3 notes at the same time, but sometimes it changes on two. I'm trying to work with it. So at least this something I can do and use the style or some of it. It's awkward because normally I play many chords in the left hand, too, but this way I can accompany myself. I've set up a registration bank with different combinations of sounds in the right and left, and I can definitely produce a trance state.

I have had problems transposing only one voice in a registration. I have tried the octave button and the transpose button, and I seem to transpose both voices, instead of the one I have selected. Any thoughts? Thanks, all.

[EileenL]

Press the Gateway Voice button. Hear you can alter octaves of all three voices. Then save to registration.

[GrannyRocks]

Press the Gateway Voice button. Hear you can alter octaves of all three voices. Then save to registration.

Thank you SO much. I will try that. Nothing like having someone experienced to ask.

[guitpic1]

Thx all

Good replies

Like I said in other posts, if I didn't have a Genos..,Iwould buy Genos2. It's great keyboard as is my Genos 1.

Take vare

[GrannyRocks]

If you set full keyboard you are almost certain to have three notes playing so yes, chords would change pretty much with every note.
Mike

This is really working, but how can I set that to be my global choice. I tried to change it in the Keyboard fingering section, but it reverted. There must be a way.

Thanks!

Beth

[EileenL]

Save it to a start up registration. When you switch press the reg button and it will set it up for you.

[GrannyRocks]

Thanks, Eileen. I think I realize what happened. I set it up for the way I wanted and then opened my registrations which all have the wrong fingering registered. So I'm going to have to redo all of them and then see if they stay put.

[overover]

This is really working, but how can I set that to be my global choice. I tried to change it in the Keyboard fingering section, but it reverted. There must be a way.

Thanks!

Beth

Hi Beth,

I already mentioned this to you somewhere in my previous answers:

To lock the Fingering type, go to "Menu > Utility > Parameter Lock" and tick the "Fingering Type" checkbox. The changed settings are automatically saved as soon as you close the Parameter Lock display using the Exit button or the X icon.

Now the Fingering type can no longer be changed by Registrations (in which a different Fingering type is memorized). Note that you can still change Fingering type manually directly in the "Split & Fingering" display.


Best regards,
Chros

[GrannyRocks]

Oh my God. How did I miss that? Thanks.

[GrannyRocks]

Of course. It worked. I keep learning every day. But I'm trying to livestream tonight and the software is no longer working with Facebook, and I am absolutely beside myself, having worked on it all day for no good effect. So at least I have this fixed!!! Thanks.

[overover]

My pleasure, Beth! Glad to could help you. 


Best regards,
Chris

[Amwilburn]

Now that I have a G2 display side by side with the G1? They do *not* sound the same at all.

However, Yamaha's claim of "All new samples" is, as usual, only partially true. The choir sounds haven't changed (except for some volume level issues with vocal shots) since Tyros 4. The Kino Strings are still the same Kino Strings (as you would expect; they always add new sounds, but keep the old ones for compatibility) But they added all new Filharmonic strings, which are similar but thicker and with more dynamics; likewise Cinematic strings are similar to Seattle strings (which also still exist, of course) but again with more... realism. It's hard to explain but if you go back and forth between the 2 sounds you'll hear the difference immediately... cinematic sounds like you'd hear from an actual movie sountrack; less "canned".
Unfortunately you'll also immeidately notice the lack of SSS.

Or at least they used to... The Orcherstral 1st violin can be played in mono or poly; when you switch it to poly; it is *not* the same Orchestral 1st violin as the G1! There is much more dynamic range, *and* it auto legatos if you play legato, even in poly. The difference is even more when you put both into mono. And again, the new version sounds more "real", less artificial. But what if you want that smaller, less expressive sound (just so you don't have to faffle about with mono/poly?) Well the old version is in there too under Legacy.

The drums sound *very* different because of the new Steinberg Revelation processor. Again, more *real*. I guess that's the theme for G2.

All I could discover in a couple of hours, but *wait* til you hear the Top Gun style in person... it *sounds*  like the actual soundtrack of the film, not a *cover* from an arranger.


Does that make it a perfect board? Nope. I wanted more flash ram and SSS for starters. But knowing they focused primarily on the realism, and exploring the new samples and REV that they put in, and then comparing with the vintage G1 sounds you're already familiar with? You'll definitely appreciate the G2 more for what it is.

For Motif/Mo owners? G1 to G2 is like the difference from Mox8f to MotifXf8... a lot of the sound patches were the same name and LSB MSB numbers, but when you actually played, the missing dynamic strike sample layer (from *every* sound) on the MOXF became apparent.

Mark

p.s. boy is that screen *bright*. Even in a store, the reflection of neon lights washes out the G1 screen completely. Not so on the G2.

p.p.s
*** Genos 2 was targeted directly at *me*; I complained G1 still used the same old symphony kit going back 20 years.

They added 3 all new cinematic kits that sound like *real* movie sountracks holy cow!!! Not covers of them. The actual soundtrack. They also added a lot of new kits... no longer need the samples pack for that fantasy samples pack (650 mb just so you can play the Terminator theme!)

[alvaromrocha]

Now that I have a G2 display side by side with the G1? They do *not* sound the same at all.

However, Yamaha's claim of "All new samples" is, as usual, only partially true. The choir sounds haven't changed (except for some volume level issues with vocal shots) since Tyros 4. The Kino Strings are still the same Kino Strings (as you would expect; they always add new sounds, but keep the old ones for compatibility) But they added all new Filharmonic strings, which are similar but thicker and with more dynamics; likewise Cinematic strings are similar to Seattle strings (which also still exist, of course) but again with more... realism. It's hard to explain but if you go back and forth between the 2 sounds you'll hear the difference immediately... cinematic sounds like you'd hear from an actual movie sountrack; less "canned".
Unfortunately you'll also immeidately notice the lack of SSS.

Or at least they used to... The Orcherstral 1st violin can be played in mono or poly; when you switch it to poly; it is *not* the same Orchestral 1st violin as the G1! There is much more dynamic range, *and* it auto legatos if you play legato, even in poly. The difference is even more when you put both into mono. And again, the new version sounds more "real", less artificial. But what if you want that smaller, less expressive sound (just so you don't have to faffle about with mono/poly?) Well the old version is in there too under Legacy.

The drums sound *very* different because of the new Steinberg Revelation processor. Again, more *real*. I guess that's the theme for G2.

All I could discover in a couple of hours, but *wait* til you hear the Top Gun style in person... it *sounds*  like the actual soundtrack of the film, not a *cover* from an arranger.


Does that make it a perfect board? Nope. I wanted more flash ram and SSS for starters. But knowing they focused primarily on the realism, and exploring the new samples and REV that they put in, and then comparing with the vintage G1 sounds you're already familiar with? You'll definitely appreciate the G2 more for what it is.

For Motif/Mo owners? G1 to G2 is like the difference from Mox8f to MotifXf8... a lot of the sound patches were the same name and LSB MSB numbers, but when you actually played, the missing dynamic strike sample layer (from *every* sound) on the MOXF became apparent.

Mark

p.s. boy is that screen *bright*. Even in a store, the reflection of neon lights washes out the G1 screen completely. Not so on the G2.

p.p.s
*** Genos 2 was targeted directly at *me*; I complained G1 still used the same old symphony kit going back 20 years.

They added 3 all new cinematic kits that sound like *real* movie sountracks holy cow!!! Not covers of them. The actual soundtrack. They also added a lot of new kits... no longer need the samples pack for that fantasy samples pack (650 mb just so you can play the Terminator theme!)

That could mostly all be done in the Genos 1 with just a software upgrade.

That's not detatable.
The anger is not because Genos 2 is bad, it's awsone, it's because it's a ripp off on Genos 1 users, which is the exact same awsome but discontinued for an EXACT SAME keyboard.

[EileenL]

No one is ripping any Genos owners off. No one forces you to buy Genos2. All of us have the choice.

[Amwilburn]

That could mostly all be done in the Genos 1 with just a software upgrade.

That's not detatable.
The anger is not because Genos 2 is bad, it's awsone, it's because it's a ripp off on Genos 1 users, which is the exact same awsome but discontinued for an EXACT SAME keyboard.

Boy, you must've been disappointed when the Tyros 5 owners were ripped off from the Genos being exactly the same, but only a few hundred more sounds.
And likewise when the Tyros 5 came out; you should've been able to just add the sounds to the Tyros 4 via a firmware upgrade!




btw, after playing with this for a couple of hours, I can kind of see why they didn't increase the sampe size (I'm still disappointed that they didn't, though). But a *lot* of the sounds and styles from expansion packs are already built in now! For example, 80s Disco is the "Last Christmas" Wham style from the Church& Christmas expansion pack.


Btw, the Montage was 6gb, the Montage Mx uses 10gb of onboard samples (not user, built in). It's looking more and more like the G2 is a similar amount of upgrade to the G1; since the G1 only had a 3gb flash area, how would they have made the ~4gb of new sounds fit into the old 3gb sample area, as well as giving you *another* 3gb for new user samples?  And how would they send you the new REVolution reverb processor from Steinberg? And how exactly were you planning to solder it in? And how you were planning to install the new DX7 chip? And the extra 128 notes of polyphony?