New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[overover]

Danny made an interesting comment about Genos players of all levels just being button pushers - or something like that. I can't remember the whole comment because the way this forum handles replies that invoke conflicts is to just press the Delete key, which makes all things just go away.

...

As mentioned above, Danny1972 had deleted his posts himself. As a result, the replies to those posts were no longer relevant, so I decided to delete those posts as well.


Best regards,
Chris

[Sokratis1974]

Hi Jeff, couldn't find anything on multipads, so don't think so, has got an interesting feature, think it's phrase. Think it was on one of AJAMSONIC  demos. A saxophone appeared to be playing a solo, bit like the soloists in BIAB. I wasn't playing that close an attention, I was trying not to burn dinner at the time😀 anyway whatever was going on sounded pretty amazing. If Sokratis is still around, maybe he can tell us about it.   ( hopefully I wasn't just daydreaming 😶‍🌫️ )

Riki and Jeff.
The Event does not have a Multipad (for now). However, there is a possibility for something very powerful, but this is not of the present. However what you heard (with the saxophone) was just an Audio Real chord which normally accompanies our chords as if they were midi chords.
This is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAwJCnEeLg
By the way, because it's always been heard that Ketron only has Audio styles and although I've said that she's also very good in midi, listen to a 100% midi style from the Event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrW_6sM8qTQ
Thanks

[rikkisbears]

Riki and Jeff.
The Event does not have a Multiband (for now). However, there is a possibility for something very powerful, but this is not of the present. However what you heard (with the saxophone) was just an Audio Real chord which normally accompanies our chords as if they were midi chords.
This is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAwJCnEeLg
By the way, because it's always been heard that Ketron only has Audio styles and although I've said that she's also very good in midi, listen to a 100% midi style from the Event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrW_6sM8qTQ
Thanks

Hi Sokratis,
I have no idea what multi band is.
That sax clip is what I was referring too .
That midi styles sounds great, takes me back. Haha,  (showing my age ) . Talented performer.

Thanks Sokratis

[Sokratis1974]

Hi Sokratis,
I have no idea what multi band is.
That sax clip is what I was referring too .
That midi styles sounds great, takes me back. Haha,  (showing my age ) . Talented performer.

Thanks Sokratis

hahahahah Sorry.. This was the (keyboard demon) Multipad I meant.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

3 new high end arrangers in 2023/24 : ( 1 ) Event, Ketron, ( 2 ) PA5X, Korg and later on this year ( 3 ) a Yamaha Genos' successor ...

What is the best choice ? : # 1,# 2 or # 3 ( = we do not know yet ).
I absolutely cannot answer that question ... only the individual customer is the real decision maker. 

IMHO most ( all ? ) Yamaha endusers will wait for Yamaha's new high end arranger before they are deciding which keyboard suits them best.
It is hard to believe ( for me ) many Yamaha customers will go for a competitor's keyboard though  ... 

Or ... might the future Ketron's Event Module Workstation ( available in 2023 ? ) be an additional choice for ( some ) Yamaha customers ?

JH

[Danny1972]

Hi :

3 new high end arrangers in 2023/24 : ( 1 ) Event, Ketron, ( 2 ) PA5X, Korg and later on this year ( 3 ) a Yamaha Genos' successor ...

What is the best choice ? : # 1,# 2 or # 3 ( = we do not know yet ).
I absolutely cannot answer that question ... only the individual customer is the real decision maker. 

Hello Jeff,

If the Genos successor will be this year and it will be all three of those as you say, then customers will really be spoilt for choice, I think you cannot go wrong with any of those three although of course we don't know what the next Yamaha will contain but one can only imagine it's going to be quite incredible.

Do you think Yamaha would introduce Audio Drums again? I know they removed them for this current generation, but if I am not mistaken I've seen people on the Korg forums call on Korg to add audio drums in their keyboards. I think Yamaha could implement this, reserve a small section just for Audio styles, say bank of 100.

For example, on the Pa5x Korg added an extra style bank called Classic Pop, although they are not audio, they are strictly based on famous songs only which I thought was quite a neat idea. Yamaha could do that with Audio styles perhaps. I do like them on my T5 and S975 although they could have chosen a better bunch of their midi styles to implement the audio drums in. I am really curious for what the next Yamaha will be, may not even be called Genos either due to the length of time the Genos has been around because I think if Yamaha carried on the Tyros trajectory we'd be on Genos3 by now.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Danny :

I do not believe Yamaha will add Audio Drums ( again ) ... but who am I ?

Plse keep in mind those Yamaha Audio Styles could not be extracted in the past and that was an issue for some of us, I guess.
IMHO it is possible the Genos' Revo drums might come back in the Genos' successor.

I personally prefer midi styles ... I hope a lot of new midi styles will be added in the new high end arranger. I think most people would be very happy. 
BUT ... only time will tell. 


Take care, JH

[rikkisbears]

but if I am not mistaken I've seen people on the Korg forums call on Korg to add audio drums in their keyboards.

Hi Danny are you sure it's audio drums? not something like revo drums, but  you could be reading different parts of forum to me. 😀 Korgs  have samplers and owners can use drum/percussion audio loops . Also the option of time slicing. Something I experimented with years ago on my pa800, it was amazing that one could manipulate an audio drum pattern via midi notes.
Never checked  to see what can be done  with Yem other than load all those free paks😀 not as inquisitive as I used be.☺️

[rikkisbears]

I personally prefer midi styles ... I hope a lot of new midi styles will be added in the new high end arranger. I think most people would be very happy. 
BUT ... only time will tell. 

Take care, JH

Basically so do I. If a pattern in a style track isn't quite what you want, change a few notes. Guitar mode has made guitar tracks sound so more realistic. Drums now sound pretty good too.

[Danny1972]

Hi Danny are you sure it's audio drums? not something like revo drums,

Hi Rikki,

I am pretty sure I read the comments after the Pa5x was released from some forum members who were disappointed with the Pa5x compared to the Pa4x, this is also with the knowledge that Korg had implemented the "Revo" drums system called Round Robin, but I guess users were still not happy! I think the Pa5x drums already sound great as they are to me.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hello Sokratis :

Will the Event Module be available in 2023/2024 ?
Thanks for your reply.
Best wishes, JH

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rikki,

I am pretty sure I read the comments after the Pa5x was released from some forum members who were disappointed with the Pa5x compared to the Pa4x, this is also with the knowledge that Korg had implemented the "Revo" drums system called Round Robin, but I guess users were still not happy! I think the Pa5x drums already sound great as they are to me.

Hi Danny, didn't spot the bit on the drums. A number are upset that some of the Pa4x  functions haven't been implemented (YET) on PA5x, new operating systems take time I suppose. They have quite a few scheduled for next update may/June. Looking forward to getting a number of the style editing functions back onboard, most of my style editing was done in xgworks, so hasn't affected me personally, either way.😀

[Sokratis1974]

Hello Sokratis :

Will the Event Module be available in 2023/2024 ?
Thanks for your reply.
Best wishes, JH

Hello Jeff. I'm not entirely sure but I think towards the end of 2023.

[Jeff Hollande]

Most of my style editing was done in xgworks.

Hi Rikki :

Do you use XGW for your Korg too ? 
It might be possible if you made a separate PA Voice list in XGW.
Did you ? ... Or do you use XGW for the SX900 only ?
IMHO there is not an SX900 available, right ?

Best wishes, JH

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rikki :

Do you use XGW for your Korg too ? 
It might be possible if you made a separate PA Voice list in XGW.
Did you ? ... Or do you use XGW for the SX900 only ?
IMHO there is not an SX900 available, right ?

Best wishes, JH

Hi Jeff, I only use it for style editing, but yes,I use it for PA5x and sx900. I don't really need a voice list, when the PA5x styles are exported as .mid files, the bank & program changes are in the midi file. I don't change voices in xgworks, I only use it for note editing . Also I used to use it for converting psr styles across to Korg.
It just works so well for what I need to do. I don't need all the audio options that the new daws offer, just gets in the way.

[Danny1972]

Not sure if it has been mentioned already, but Bonners are stocking and advertising the Event !!!

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/products/ketron-event-arranger-keyboard

This is a surprise to me as I am pretty sure no main UK dealers were stocking any Ketron keyboards in the past. When I bought my SD7 and SD60 they were ordered from Ketron Italy.

This is a very interesting move, I wonder if more of the main UK dealers will stock them as well.

It would be incredible if Tony of Bonners did a full demo of it, I think it could get me curious.

[Bill]

DV247 are also stocking the Event

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Ketron-EVENT/art-KEY0005700-000

Bill

[kiplis]

It would be incredible if Tony of Bonners did a full demo of it, I think it could get me curious.

True, if Tony does a demo and evaluates the Event, it could be really important, both ways....
I think Yamaha is a bit arrogant towards us old customers because they don't want to give any additional information about the future plans.
At least I always want to get to know the preliminary information and features, before I purchase anything.

-Kiplis-

[BogdanH]

New video about Event was just published:
AjamSonic: Event Q&A

I find it quite informative. As I always say, it's not about which keyboard is the best in the world -it's about which is the best for you.

Bogdan

[Danny1972]

True, if Tony does a demo and evaluates the Event, it could be really important, both ways....

Yes he's an exceptional player and would make anything sound fantastic. It would be good if he did because you could then compare his previous two demos of the Pa5x and Genos for a really fair and balanced comparison.

I saw a demo of the Event on facebook yesterday played by the popular Bartlomiej playing and singing to a Rick Astley "Whenever You Need Somebody", and I was blown away by it to be fair.

[Lee Batchelor]

Good video, Bogdan.

From what I see, the Event user interface is overly complicated. It relies heavily on the touch screen, which has a lot of content almost to the point of being visually "noisy." It may work for home players who have the luxury of time but despite his comments about the programmable buttons on the bottom, it appears clumsy and awkward for the live stage.

Even for home players, navigating their way through endless screens would become tiresome. Home player goals are identical to those of live stage players, and that's to play music, not be computer geeks. The Genos is more intuitive and better organized.

I didn't watch the whole video but I'd be concerned about the lack of Registration buttons, unless they're somewhere else. I didn't see any 👎.

[BogdanH]

...
I didn't watch the whole video but I'd be concerned about the lack of Registration buttons, unless they're somewhere else. I didn't see any 👎.

-you didn't watch whole video (the talk about registrations) and so it's kinda unfair to give thumb down.

I totally understand that not everyone might like Event.. same can be said for Korg or Yamaha -it's just great that we have choices.

Bogdan

[AndrewKeyz]

Just a caution: Be careful with these demos, and always try yourself if you can.

Tony from Bonners' demo was the only reason why I ended up buying the Pa5X.
In reality I couldn't make it sound anything like the demo.
I'm not as an advanced player of course, but it still disappointed me compared to the Genos which just seemed to sound better out of the box for several reasons.
Especially solo instruments like saxes (often used in the arranger world). The Genos has lots of articulation in tonnes of instruments that work on many dynamics. The Korg seemed completely flat to me in many departments (acoustic guitars, saxes and woodwind, brass). Just strange in comparison and not impressive for the price, more comparable to legacy/XG sounds in the Genos. (in my opinion, it is subjective of course). I reckon a Tyros 4 or 5 would be better for me even if I'm being honest. We are talking 10 year old Yamaha keyboards.


This is what worries me with the Event. Great styles that the keyboard can start and end with since they are live and extremely impressive in demos, but in reality you will struggle with the menu system and solo instruments may not impress thus making the keyboard long term nowhere as good as a Yamaha.


I'm even reminded of Tony's demo of comparing the Roland RD2000 to a Nord Piano 4. The RD2000 seemed to win that one in that demo to my ears, but general consensus is Nord always has better samples than almost any other company. Again I bought the RD2000 based on that. Also disappointing in reality (to me) for various reasons. The base piano just didn't seem to sing as well as in that demo and seemed to fade away in any music I recorded with it. I constantly switched to an old sample the RD700NX or whatever. It just seemed weird. The CFX in the Genos is much brighter and cuts through mixes much better to the point I keep telling myself I should try other instruments and stop messing around with the CFX only, that was never the case on the Roland. In fact as far as I remember I preferred the Nord Piano 2 I briefly owned a while before the Roland. Easier to use and to get different sounds out of, and of course holds its value much better if you do want to ever sell it on.

However they record some of these demos: possibly changing EQ, compression, mastering, perhaps even the expert playing or whatever sometimes appears to paint a different picture to reality.


I guess what I'm trying to get at is don't JUST be sold by the sound in a demo. There are other factors to consider and especially think about how it will actually sound when YOU are playing the keyboard.

[Lee Batchelor]

-you didn't watch whole video (the talk about registrations) and so it's kinda unfair to give thumb down.

I totally understand that not everyone might like Event.. same can be said for Korg or Yamaha -it's just great that we have choices.

Bogdan

Agreed, Bogdan. Actually, I finished watching the video. You can create registrations but only through the screen and in a somewhat convoluted manner, unless I missed something. The Event still looks like a "computer first and musical instrument after." That doesn't work for the serious stage player. We need access to key functions through dedicated buttons, not touch screen options and menus. We simply do not have the time to do these things any other way.

[Danny1972]

New video about Event was just published:
AjamSonic: Event Q&A

I find it quite informative. As I always say, it's not about which keyboard is the best in the world -it's about which is the best for you.

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan,

Thank you for sharing this, watched it all the way and very informative as you say. I really like the OS, it's very similar to my SD60 which I find easy and intuitive to use so I'm glad to see that the system is retained in the Event also.

The questions that I would have asked were not included so I wrote them in the comments of the video in the hope I get some replies, based on the replies I may take a serious look at this keyboard.

All the best,
Danny

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

I am missing the multipads in the Event.
I am aware of the Event's solo parts but it is a completely different feature than multipads.

According to Sokratis the multipad section might come later in the Event ( if I am not wrong !!! ) but I really wonder how Ketron will fix that though ... not possible, IMO.
Maybe I misunderstood Sokratis' words ... if so plse forgive me ...
When I am wrong Sokratis will surely correct me.

Best regards, JH

[musicteach]

I am a big Yamaha fan, and own quite a few Yamaha instruments, but I would buy whatever keyboard I thought was superior (and that I could afford).  And I feel for these companies who are trying to compete.  Yamaha sells far more units, they have massive manufacturing plants, R&D departments, artist input, dealer network, and an impressive company culture.  How do these smaller makers compete?  I imagine the only way they can grab some market share is to innovate something new.  And it seems like they are doing that with these audio backing tracks.  As a band in the box user I am skeptical of the more audio based styles (I believe this is what the BIAB real styles are).  Somehow these styles don't sound as great over a PA system.  MIDI and samples has some downsides, but this is a proven and effective technology. 

A couple years ago I had a visit from a Yamaha rep from Japan.  He came to see our school because we buy a lot of Yamaha stuff.  He was so knowledgeable, helpful, and obviously dedicated to the company.  It really left me impressed with the company.  But, like most musicians, I'll buy whatever instrument is best for me.

[BogdanH]

hi Danny

...I really like the OS, it's very similar to my SD60 which I find easy and intuitive to use so I'm glad to see that the system is retained in the Event also.
...

-now that is interesting that you say that. Ant that actually proves, that it's hard to "judge" things without trying them for at least few days. As you noticed, we tend to criticize every OS if it doesn't look like on Yamaha.. and if it does, then we say "eh, is a Yamaha copy". On the other hand, when I bough my first Yamaha, it also wasn't everything that obvious to me -means, certain time is needed to understand the idea behind.

My opinion about Event user interface is mixed... but one is for sure, it would help immensely, if it would have more graphical elements: icons, different sections coloring/shading, etc. Now it looks quite monotone and confusing -one can easy get lost in various options.

Same as musicteach above (posted while I'm typing), I try to be open minded and ready to recognize competition's advantages (by not denying them). It can be, that Event is not "my kind" of keyboard, but that doesn't decrease it's value.

Bogdan

[Danny1972]

My opinion about Event user interface is mixed... but one is for sure, it would help immensely, if it would have more graphical elements: icons, different sections coloring/shading, etc. Now it looks quite monotone and confusing -one can easy get lost in various options.

Bogdan

I am pretty sure that there was an option to change the display background, colours and fonts on the SD60 but I didn't mind the defaults but I will try it later.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the OS on the Ketron's are perfect at all and I still think the Yamaha's are easier, but I would say that as I have been using Yamaha all my life and I have never found it confusing whereas I can't say that for both Korg and Ketron up until recently really. I didn't like the OS of the Solton X1 and then the Audya and found them both confusing but I think it really changed for the better when Ketron introduced the touch screen, from the SD7 onwards I think. And as for Korg, the OS had me confused and was a nightmare (still is) on my Korg i30, only slightly better on the Pa80/Pa1x/Pa2x but it started to really improve from the Pa3x generation and now with the Pa5x is radically different from previous Korgs and closer to Yamaha which suits me fine.

Other OS system that I liked using was GEM, I still have my WK8 Megastation and the OS is very simple, I also still have a KN7000 and I must admit I find the OS confusing, as I do with the Roland Ea7.

So it really is about what you're used to because I know may people really praised how easy OS of the Technics was where I struggle with it.

I still find the Yamaha's the easiest to use overall though.

[Jeff Hollande]

IMHO it is not easy to go for another brand when a player is used to work with Yamaha arranger(s) for a longer period of time.

We all are so familiar with these Yamaha arrangers and know all their pros and cons so well after all these years.

The Event seems to be a very interesting competitor.

I honestly believe the Event could become a popular instrument but it will be very hard for Ketron to convince Yamaha customers to change their mind.

Best wishes, JH