New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[rikkisbears]

Thank you Sokratis, I won't be selling my PA5x or my sx900, but I would sure love to add the module version of the Event when it becomes available. It sounds very impressive. Just hoping we have a reliable supplier here in Aust. by then. Apparently we have a new one😀Our last one , the newest module they had online  a few months back , was an Audya😳. Fortunately there's time to get established.

Love it that Ketron makes modules, can't fit another keyboard.😀

Thanks again.

[Jeff Hollande]

Dear Sokratis :

This Event's thread is very important : 18 PAGES already ... believe me it is not the end yet.

I like your very useful comments and inputs very much.
Not only me but ... ALL members do, IMHO.

You are very familiar with Yamaha's arrangers, a member of this forum, a real gentleman and your software knowledge is very important to all of us.

You are one of the Event's software developers ! WOW ! 

Last but not least ...
Plse be so kind to continue to share your Event's knowledge here. Thank you !

Most of us are aware the Event seems to be a very important competitor ( in my perception ).

Best regards, JH

[BogdanH]

Question for Sokratis...
I look at english Event manual (page 154):
A Sample is a WAV file, suitably treated and cut with a maximum duration of about 6 seconds

Maybe I understand above in a wrong context, but 6 second is kinda short time for a sample. For example, if creating custom piano voice, then a single piano note may require a sample length of 15+ seconds. Can you elaborate? Thank you.

Additional thoughts...
I think Ketron should make it's web page much more international (english) friendly. As it is now, even if switching to english language, a lot of content is still shown in italian only. There can be no excuse for this and only presents Ketron as some "garage" company (no pun intended).
On main page I see "New Event software available" (since 14th of February), but if I click on link button (written in italian), I get "Page not found" -again, such things shouldn't happen.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

I fully agree with your comments.
Apparently Ketron seem not to have professional marketing and distribution experience at all.
It has been said so many times here. 
How many ears must this small company have to understand what the words " international and global business " really mean.
I have the impression the Event could be the goose with the golden eggs but ... we all know that is not enough to be successful.
If Ketron are not capable to find out how to " sell and distribute " their new born baby ... this arranger will never become mature, IMO.

Cheers, JH

[BogdanH]

I realize more and more, how difficult is is to get a complete picture of some product (not only Ketron Event). The thing is, big majority of so called "reviews" and "honest opinions" are actually advertisements (paid one way or another). And then we have reviews or opinions coming from actual owner. Here we need to be careful again. Many times his previous keyboard is some older model, or is entirely in different (lower) class. And when that's the case, it's to be expected the reviewer to be over-excited and so, not really objective. The third thing that happens is, the reviewer mostly emphasizes on positive aspects of his new toy (and many times bashes competing products at that). Why? Don't know... maybe they feel better if they can somehow justify (and hopefully get confirmation about) their decision.

Why I made so long introduction? It's because of the following video, that just appeared on Youtube:
Ketron Event! Is it better than Medeli AKX10?!

And so, as always, there's no bad or good keyboard. What matters is, which is the best for our needs -and no matter what we choose, there will always be a compromise.

Bogdan

[Duffy]

That was a brilliant assessment, probably the best I have ever heard. All the minor things of major importance.
I was also amazed at how good the Medeli is. Very close to the Yamaha for the price of peanuts.
Thank you for such really good advice.

[Jeff Hollande]

After all these years Yamaha have never disappointed me nor let me down.
I believe all other members of this forum are sharing the same experience.

Tell me  ... why should I say goodbye to a loyal partner ?
Best wishes, JH


Edit 2023-03-01 by overover: Removed blank lines at the end of the post

[keynote]

Wow! What an eye-opener. Many thanks to Bojan Bojovic of Dynamix Audio for his no holds barred approach to the Ketron Event. The Event is now entirely off my purchase list. From the look of things, Ketron engineers seem to have never played an arranger keyboard. Engineers themselves are highly technical mathematicians in many cases but if they don't know anything about music or more importantly, playing a musical instrument, in this case, an electronic keyboard, the results can be hugely disappointing as is the case with the Ketron Event, apparently. Unless someone who works with Ketron would like to refute Bojovic's review and critique of the Event. Ketron started way back in the 1980s, so it's not like they're starting from scratch with little experience. Ketron is of course a very small company that employs between 26 and 39 people depending on the economic circumstances, I reckon. They have a small presence in the USA, but the Ketron USA website has NO information about the Event whatsoever. Even the Ketron Italy website which does have information about the Event has stated it's OUT OF STOCK for the last couple of months or longer. Apparently, Ketron's second shipment of Events will be in March, but if they only have around 40 people putting them together, I imagine there will only be a couple of hundred or so that will eventually ship in March. And if this new YouTube video gets a lot more traction i.e. a lot more views from the keyboard community, Ketron might not be able to sell all the batch they do ship out. We all wish Ketron well from a business standpoint, but facts are facts and if Ketron can't cut the mustard then obviously people will look elsewhere for their arranger keyboard needs. Once again, it's always best to play a keyboard first, up close and personal, before deciding to lay down your hard-earned cash. Which would include the Genos2 unless a person has no way to play one beforehand. That could have been the case with Bojan Bojovic. Lessons learned.

All the best, Mike USA         

[rikkisbears]

Question for Sokratis...
I look at english Event manual (page 154):
A Sample is a WAV file, suitably treated and cut with a maximum duration of about 6 seconds

Maybe I understand above in a wrong context, but 6 second is kinda short time for a sample. For example, if creating custom piano voice, then a single piano note may require a sample length of 15+ seconds. Can you elaborate? Thank you.


Bogdan

Hi Bogdan, you never cease to amaze. So by the sound of things ( excuse the pun 😀) 
apparently PA5x can  quote "can handle a stereo sample of up to 21 seconds in duration " the guy who wrote it is one of the Korg forum  experts, not from Korg, but creates amazing sound libraries for Korg products. Has amazing piano and symphonic libraries.

Didn't mean much to me  sampling lengths etc haven't done any in years and even then it was only drum kits.

[BogdanH]

hi Rikki,
As I said, maybe I understood that 6sec limitation wrongly.. anyway, it should be clarified to avoid confusion.
I don't know if there is a length limit on my SX700.. there probably is, but I never hit it -so, it's non existent for me. Pa5X has limit of 21sec? Well, I could easily live with that, I guess 

I wish to emphasize again, that's not my intention to bash any keyboard or brand and I also don't try to convince anyone. Everybody should make his own conclusion and decision based on available information.
Now stop reading my blubbering and go practicing on whatever clunky keyboard you have 

Bogdan

[RoyB]

The big thing for me from that video is how brilliant the Medeli AKX10 is for less than half the price of a SX900.

While there has been a lot of discussions on this forum about the Korg PA5X and Ketron Event as Genos competitors, and what we might see (or want to see) in a future Genos 2, perhaps the biggest competition to the Genos might be if Medeli was to release a Genos alternative for less than half the price of a Genos.

Regards

Roy

[Duffy]

Wow! What an eye-opener. Many thanks to Bojan Bojovic of Dynamix Audio for his no holds barred approach to the Ketron Event. The Event is now entirely off my purchase list. From the look of things, Ketron engineers seem to have never played an arranger keyboard. Engineers themselves are highly technical mathematicians in many cases but if they don't know anything about music or more importantly, playing a musical instrument, in this case, an electronic keyboard, the results can be hugely disappointing as is the case with the Ketron Event, apparently. Unless someone who works with Ketron would like to refute Bojovic's review and critique of the Event. Ketron started way back in the 1980s, so it's not like they're starting from scratch with little experience. Ketron is of course a very small company that employs between 26 and 39 people depending on the economic circumstances, I reckon. They have a small presence in the USA, but the Ketron USA website has NO information about the Event whatsoever. Even the Ketron Italy website which does have information about the Event has stated it's OUT OF STOCK for the last couple of months or longer. Apparently, Ketron's second shipment of Events will be in March, but if they only have around 40 people putting them together, I imagine there will only be a couple of hundred or so that will eventually ship in March. And if this new YouTube video gets a lot more traction i.e. a lot more views from the keyboard community, Ketron might not be able to sell all the batch they do ship out. We all wish Ketron well from a business standpoint, but facts are facts and if Ketron can't cut the mustard then obviously people will look elsewhere for their arranger keyboard needs. Once again, it's always best to play a keyboard first, up close and personal, before deciding to lay down your hard-earned cash. Which would include the Genos2 unless a person has no way to play one beforehand. That could have been the case with Bojan Bojovic. Lessons learned.

All the best, Mike USA       

I certainly agree about trying keyboards up close before purchase but this is getting increasingly difficult with the lack of keyboard shops these days.
I have bought every one of my boards from proper shops but there are no proper dealers left and I live in the 4 or 5 largest city in the country.
Such a shame about the Event because it is good in many ways and I have regard for Ketron's after using them (modules) for more than 20 years.
It sounds as though the new Korg is pretty disappointing so the way is open for Medeli to become a real major competitor to Yamaha.
They are certainly paying attention to detail and deserve to be rewarded for their efforts.
Before anyone starts shouting, I DO PLAY A YAMAHA Genos, but I play more than one keyboard and so, all the competition interests me until I rule them out.

[rikkisbears]

hi Rikki,
As I said, maybe I understood that 6sec limitation wrongly.. anyway, it should be clarified to avoid confusion.
I don't know if there is a length limit on my SX700.. there probably is, but I never hit it -so, it's non existent for me. Pa5X has limit of 21sec? Well, I could easily live with that, I guess 

I wish to emphasize again, that's not my intention to bash any keyboard or brand and I also don't try to convince anyone. Everybody should make his own conclusion and decision based on available information.
Now stop reading my blubbering and go practicing on whatever clunky keyboard you have 

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan, not the first time I've heard 6 seconds mentioned, maybe I read it in the manual or one of the video clips. Wouldn't be a deal breaker for  me anyway.  If /or when I get into sampling again , it would be on the Korg.
I'm just fascinated by some of the Ketron functions, (I'm a technology junkie when it comes to keyboards) and since it wouldn't be my only keyboard (module)  , some of its short comings  could be overlooked. Only real deal breaker for me , would be the reliability of the seller.  Not a good track record here in Aust. A friend of mine actually had a couple of solton's back in the 90's. Not even sure how he got them.
Tried to talk the store I used to work in , to try and get us one.  Not interested. Anything else we wanted, he would get for us.
We did finally get a large piano store that sold them.  Their salespeople didn't bother to learn anything about them. The newest arranger  they had on the website last year was an Audya module.
Anyway, apparently we have a new distributor. If he can get them into a mainstream pro music store, I would definitely be interested.
One needs backup.  Something goes wrong with a Korg or a Yamaha, you get it fixed
( provided it's not too old to bother with).
The Medeli sounds interesting ( haven't watch full clip yet)  again, don't think they're sold here, or if they are , I haven't come across them.

When they stopped making Technics back in early 2000, I sold mine shortly afterwards. My favourite brand  up till then I had 6 of them over the years. Not much point wasting time on something that was not going to be around anymore.

You need continuity.

[Sokratis1974]

Question for Sokratis...
I look at english Event manual (page 154):
A Sample is a WAV file, suitably treated and cut with a maximum duration of about 6 seconds

Maybe I understand above in a wrong context, but 6 second is kinda short time for a sample. For example, if creating custom piano voice, then a single piano note may require a sample length of 15+ seconds. Can you elaborate? Thank you.

Additional thoughts...
I think Ketron should make it's web page much more international (english) friendly. As it is now, even if switching to english language, a lot of content is still shown in italian only. There can be no excuse for this and only presents Ketron as some "garage" company (no pun intended).
On main page I see "New Event software available" (since 14th of February), but if I click on link button (written in italian), I get "Page not found" -again, such things shouldn't happen.

Bogdan

Dear Bogdan.
Yes, there is indeed this 6 second limitation on samples.
The solution that exists in these cases when we want to load a large sample (eg a low piano note) is a easy fade from a Audio Editor (Wavelab etc).
But here we should emphasize something else. Without wanting to justify this (weakness) and because I am a professional developer for over 20 years which means I know very well the whole process of sampling from the moment of recording in the studio to the final phase of testing on the instrument, a sample most often develops within the first 2 to 3 seconds. For example: When a guitarist plays a note with his pen immediately the listener understands that this sound comes from a guitar because the (body) and harmonics which identify us that it is a guitar develop instantly. So, after the recognition and determination of the sound (Attack, Decay) follows the Sustain from which the sound (depending on the instrument) remains at a basic constant content and volume until it fades naturally. At this point of the sustain, someone intervenes with an easy fade out.
And for the real reason, see a small demo from a good friend of mine and excellent musician Thomas (he also collaborated in the development of Event with Ketron) how he made an Upright Piano sound in the sampler with size of the samples only 20mb.
EVENT SAMPLER UPRIGHT PIANO https://youtu.be/NT5xjV3CbUE

As well as another demo here with an Accordion also from the Event sampler (again from Thomas)
EVENT SAMPLER ACCORDION
https://youtu.be/jetTvdWn6Yw

And finally a favorite 90s sound that I sampled from my own Roland D50 (yes it still works) from which sound you will find (those who remember it) that all the familiar elements are developed before looping
EVENT SAMPLER LINEAR PAD (ROLAND D-50)
https://youtu.be/Y4shopz2A8A

However, it's something I've been pointing out for a while now. I don't know if it will change through some update in the future. Regarding the poor presentation of the site (and in general the poor presentation of this instrument) it is also something that I have pointed out and as far as I know some efforts are already being made to improve or completely renew the site. Finally regarding the comparison video between Medeli AKX10 and Event I would like to say the following:
I saw from last night the video of the comparison of Medeli with the Event. However, I found some inaccuracies in this video and it was due to the fact that this guy is talking about things that don't exist when in reality they just need a different setting such as for example the organization of styles and sounds through a list selection as it is in all instruments. Also, some of the failures he mentioned have already been improved or are being improved in future updates.
Also, I was (lucky) to have this instrument (Medeli AKX10) one month ago in my studio and I had it at my disposal for more than two weeks and of course there was immediate compared to the Event, I must admit that the Medeli has an impressive number of positives especially for its price. It's incredible how a €700 or so instrument can have 768MB of RAM in the sampler and 40 stereo velocity layers.
Of course, it is obvious that the entire concept of Yamaha arrangers has been copy-pasted in Medeli, which is of course very good for the user who has these features at such a low price.
And probably Mendeli is a very promising company.
But I'm not too happy with its sound. It is clean and very good for its cost, but personally it does not impress me. And since I don't want to go on and on or tell anyone (I never did) I'd like to say this: Listen to your intuition. Buy what you want with the only criterion being your own aesthetics. When you are interested in something try to have your own opinion, whatever it may be by trying the product you are interested in. Everything else to me is just talk which after a point is meaningless.

[AndrewKeyz]

I realize more and more, how difficult is is to get a complete picture of some product (not only Ketron Event). The thing is, big majority of so called "reviews" and "honest opinions" are actually advertisements (paid one way or another). And then we have reviews or opinions coming from actual owner. Here we need to be careful again. Many times his previous keyboard is some older model, or is entirely in different (lower) class. And when that's the case, it's to be expected the reviewer to be over-excited and so, not really objective. The third thing that happens is, the reviewer mostly emphasizes on positive aspects of his new toy (and many times bashes competing products at that). Why? Don't know... maybe they feel better if they can somehow justify (and hopefully get confirmation about) their decision.

Why I made so long introduction? It's because of the following video, that just appeared on Youtube:
Ketron Event! Is it better than Medeli AKX10?!

And so, as always, there's no bad or good keyboard. What matters is, which is the best for our needs -and no matter what we choose, there will always be a compromise.

Bogdan

Don't think I could use the Event based on that video. It's worse than the Pa5X. Endlessly farting around with the menus. I'm just not comfortable with using a touch screen whilst playing. Bizarre that all those features can only be controlled via touch screen and the wheel. Literally the only thing I use the wheel for on the Genos is changing tempo and even that isn't necessary.

The Medeli seems like a very decent sx700 ish alternative.

[Jeff Hollande]

Don't think I could use the Event based on that video. It's worse than the Pa5X. Endlessly farting around with the menus.

Hey Sokratis :

What is your reaction on Andrew's impression of the Event's screen use ?
Plse advise. Thanks, JH

[Sokratis1974]

Hey Sokratis :

What is your reaction on Andrew's impression of the Event's screen use ?
Plse advise. Thanks, JH

Hi Jeff.
Improvement efforts are being made.
However, I played a small rough demo live-changing several sounds without any issues or lag.
Almost all the sounds are mine and most of them are played through the sampler. Also the style is a factory style but somewhat modified by me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-rTWaEfPYY

[Mark]

Very interesting thread. I watched the video of comparison of Medeli AKX10 and Ketron Event.
I don't have any experience with ketron products and play Yamaha Genos as a hobbyist, since I don't need two keyboards I'm rather not interested in Event and will wait for the module which might have more sense for me, if at all, but I'll still express my opinion

I don't think that all the points raised in the video are accurate, although indeed some are certainly valid.

For example, Ketron has an ability to add a monitor with a touch screen (of any size and tilted as required). Of course it doesn't mean that the Event's screen could be larger but a descent workaround exists.

As for the buttons - well, I don't know whether they will break or not, I do see (visually) the same buttons on SD9/SD90 - did many Ketron owners complain? Probably people who consider buying Ketron Event should ask the owners (in a relevant FB group or something). As for the convenience - I do agree that the style control section could feature more buttons, but on the other hand the video doesn't mention advantages the Ketron event offers: up to 8 variations, different flavors depending on the chord, like CV in Korg (yeah, I know that Yamaha has somewhat similar although less powerful option available via external casm editors), obviously audio engine and more useful features like bass/chord locking. Of course every keyboard has its weaknesses and strengths, and I'm sure, Ketron Event is not ideal, I'm just saying that mentioning only the weak points is not fair.
I do agree that adding leds to the buttons like its done on Genos is the best option for a player though.

Its interesting BTW, whether we could use an external controller, especially with Ketron Event module when it will be released, to map the "missing" Style control buttons to the physical buttons of the controller - this might solve the issue as well. I understand that for the Event keyboard its not that practical to have an external midi controller, but for the module, why not? The same applies to the lack of +/- buttons and page navigation - maybe module version / future OS update could address that by providing a capability to map controller / improve the OS interface. Having said that, I do believe that all-in-all Ketron Interface is behind the other competitors...

Now regarding the style creation process - a feature that I'm interested in a lot. Well, I believe Ketron could improve the style creator, for example to give us a descent step editor inside the machine, an ability to copy/paste parts, record controller events, automations, etc. to attract the users wishing to create the styles on the keyboard itself. I tend to think that at some point the DAW will be required anyway, but for basic editing the style editor should provide  everything we need to create the style as well. Its not fair however to say the the style creation process on Yamaha is a breeze like the guy on the video says. I think an ability to rename the file and use DAW for editing is really good, at least way better than on Yamaha where we have to use third-party tools (what happens if Yamaha will come up with a new style format, like SFF3 or will introduce a completely new format? ). Again I'm not telling that Ketron is good or bad, after all I haven't owned Ketron as I said before, but just mentioning that it has good and weak points just like other brands.

Last point I would like to raise is the change list of OS 1.1.0 released by Ketron, which is available for free on their site. The amount of fixes is impressive! This makes me think that they realize that the product is not fully finished and they're seriously committed to improve it. So they add new features and fix the bugs - well, maybe they'll introduce the step editor and improve the Style Editing in future, add more insert effects and provide more capabilities to their sampler - who knows. They are small company and try to compete with Yamaha and Korg which is great.

So bottom line, I do not think that this video should distract all the potential buyers from this product that has a lot of benefits, although it lags behind Yamaha and Korg in some areas...

[BogdanH]

Hi Sokratis,
Thank you for explaining, I really appreciate. I'm not some piano player and I'm aware that it's quite rare to play single piano note for longer period of time. However, I do think that 6sec could be a limitation for those who play Classical piano pieces -in that case, it's not only about recognizing that the piano is being played. The thing is, piano basically only has two articulations that player uses: touch sensitivity and sustain -and both are equally important. I think, that's less problematic in case of accordion voice or similar, because here, voice is usually looped (and so 6sec is more than enough).

Now about Event vs Medeli video... Here I agree with Mark (above). We should interpret that video carefully -that was the reason for my longer intro in that post. What I'm saying is, Medeli is basically an SX700 class keyboard (at astonishing price, though) and as such, it can't be compared to any TOTL arranger. However, author of that video did make some valid points... I still think, that Yamaha has by far the best interface (incl. panel buttons) among arrangers: it's very aesthetic, logical, informative and easy to use. Korg has similar approach, but not there just yet in my opinion.
Event however, as soon we go into some options/settings, all we see is buttons, which all look the same, without any icons or similar (so we could differentiate them quickly). It somehow reminds me on control room of some nuclear plant (I never been there, though). And I also noticed that all names (buttons, voices, etc.) are written in capital letters and so they appear even more similar. Also, words are separated with underline ("_")  character... which again, reminds me on old DOS times.
From what I've seen and heard so far, I do believe that one can make exceptional performance on Event. But for many, that alone just isn't enough (considering the price).

Bogdan

[Sokratis1974]

Hi Sokratis,
Thank you for explaining, I really appreciate. I'm not some piano player and I'm aware that it's quite rare to play single piano note for longer period of time. However, I do think that 6sec could be a limitation for those who play Classical piano pieces -in that case, it's not only about recognizing that the piano is being played. The thing is, piano basically only has two articulations that player uses: touch sensitivity and sustain -and both are equally important. I think, that's less problematic in case of accordion voice or similar, because here, voice is usually looped (and so 6sec is more than enough).

Now about Event vs Medeli video... Here I agree with Mark (above). We should interpret that video carefully -that was the reason for my longer intro in that post. What I'm saying is, Medeli is basically an SX700 class keyboard (at astonishing price, though) and as such, it can't be compared to any TOTL arranger. However, author of that video did make some valid points... I still think, that Yamaha has by far the best interface (incl. panel buttons) among arrangers: it's very aesthetic, logical, informative and easy to use. Korg has similar approach, but not there just yet in my opinion.
Event however, as soon we go into some options/settings, all we see is buttons, which all look the same, without any icons or similar (so we could differentiate them quickly). It somehow reminds me on control room of some nuclear plant (I never been there, though). And I also noticed that all names (buttons, voices, etc.) are written in capital letters and so they appear even more similar. Also, words are separated with underline ("_")  character... which again, reminds me on old DOS times.
From what I've seen and heard so far, I do believe that one can make exceptional performance on Event. But for many, that alone just isn't enough (considering the price).

Bogdan

Thanks Bogdan.
Here I also have to say and admit that Yamaha has by far the best interface (incl. panel buttons) of all and perhaps the best and easiest and of course most stable OS that exists. However, here too there are weaknesses and limitations (mainly on board) and I don't think we need to mention them again.

[Jeff Hollande]

Another question, Sokratis :

Does the Event have midi multipads like most Yamaha's and Korg's ?
Thanks for your reply, JH

[BogdanH]

...Yamaha... However, here too there are weaknesses and limitations (mainly on board) and I don't think we need to mention them again.

Absolutely agree!

Bogdan

[Lee Batchelor]

I think the Genos has just the right balance between touch screen functions and surface controllers. As a performing musician, there may be the odd thing I'd like to see put back on the surface but I can't think of any at the moment.

[overover]

Hi Chris,

I made a really big mess tonight. I feel very embarrassed. Can you remove and delete my profile. Thank you.

You already apologized, Danny. So it shouldn't be a problem anymore. We still value you as a forum member.

By the way, only Admins can delete user accounts, Global Moderators like me can't.


@all
After Danny1972 deleted his somewhat provocative post here and also his second post in which he apologized, I also removed all other posts that referred to Danny's posts that no longer exist.


Best regards,
Chris

[rikkisbears]

Hi Chris, you are a brilliant moderator 😀

[Danny1972]

Thank you for your kind words Chris.

Can you point me to the Admin I need to speak to please.

Thank you.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Danny, hope you're not planning on leaving 😞

[rikkisbears]

Another question, Sokratis :

Does the Event have midi multipads like most Yamaha's and Korg's ?
Thanks for your reply, JH

Hi Jeff, couldn't find anything on multipads, so don't think so, has got an interesting feature, think it's phrase. Think it was on one of AJAMSONIC  demos. A saxophone appeared to be playing a solo, bit like the soloists in BIAB. I wasn't playing that close an attention, I was trying not to burn dinner at the time😀 anyway whatever was going on sounded pretty amazing. If Sokratis is still around, maybe he can tell us about it.   ( hopefully I wasn't just daydreaming 😶‍🌫️ )

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Danny, hope you're not planning on leaving 😞

I'm not leaving either but thanks for asking. After 3,000 or so posts, it didn't seem logical.

[rikkisbears]

I'm not leaving either but thanks for asking. After 3,000 or so posts, it didn't seem logical.

Hi Lee
why would I assume you would leave?