Style Mixer Slider window revisited

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi folks,

I'm opening this topic again because I really need a solution.

No matter what I do, I can't make the Style Mixer Slider window appear as the default window in any registration. It won't even work when I check the Live Control box in the Memory area. If I display the Style Mixer Slider window, press Save with Live Control checked, the next time I open the registration, the Knob Assign window appears 👿! Oddly enough, the Organ sliders are saved as the default window but not the Style Mixer Slider window!!

This has happened ever since updating to 2.2. I played a show the other night and every time I called a registration for the next song, I had to either press the Registration #1 button twice, or call the Slider Assign window manually. This is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. Is there no solution?? Can I roll the OS back to 2.1?

In an earlier post, Stijn mentioned that the Reset functions will not fix this. Why has this issue only reared its ugly head in the 2.2 update and non of the previous ones??

[vlbrgt]

Wasn't the latest update not 2.11 ?
I am not aware of a 2.2 update.

Regards
Etienne

[Fred Smith]

Yes, you can roll back to 2.10, as long as you saved the installation file, or find someone who has it.

Cheers,
Fred

[Bill]

Hi Lee

I assume you are taking about the Aux. Display not the main screen display.

To get the Slider Display window on the Aux Screen to appear instead of the Rotary Knob window, make sure you Tick the "Assignable Buttons" when saving a Reg.

I have included the feature in my "Startup Reg."

Old Registration will change it back to the default unless you Set up the parameters to include assignable buttons and then use the freeze button.

If you have lots of incorrect setup Reg. Use Murray Best's program in batch mode to make them all correct.

Hope it helps

Bill

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, all. I may have the OS version wrong. Between Windows, Android, phones, and dozens of apps and programs, the version numbers are just a blur.

I doubt that I can roll back my OS. I have no idea how to do that and with lots of gigs coming up, I can't take the chance. I'll take a look at Bill's suggestion to see how I'm saving the Registrations. One thing is for certain - all the registrations were perfect before this last boondoggle from Yamaha!!

There is often so much damage done by updates in software.

[Fred Smith]

I doubt that I can roll back my OS. I have no idea how to do that

It's simply an OS install. Same as every other update. You acquire v2.10 and install it.

Cheers,
Fred

[vlbrgt]

Go to the download page for the Genos Firmware Updater :
https://nl.yamaha.com/nl/support/updates/firm_genos.html
Scroll down to the Version History.
Look at the [V1.30 to V1.40]
They clearly state,
The previous firmware cannot be restored after updating the firmware to this version

This is not mentioned with the newer firmware updates.
So I suppose it is possible to go back from v2.11 to v2.10 or ...
If not possible I think Yamaha would have mention it ?

Regards
Etienne

[Bill]

Hi  Lee

I have included my Basic Setup reg below.  You will notice I have altered the names slightly on the Aux. Display to make then easier to read.

https://app.box.com/s/gdxzr8xkn7uruei2b0r6ajsrwakp50m6

Interesting though when I first looked this morning I was showing Ver 2.10 I started the install to see if I actually had the Ver 2.10 on my USB Stick. Is I downloaded 2.11 and put it on the USB.  However I decided to NOT install it (It had not started to install it)  Switch the KB off and back on and it showed Ver. 2.11. So now I'm totally confused.

Regards

Bill

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks guys. As mentioned, I have some shows coming up. I don't think I'll mess with an OS change at this point. Whatever they did with 2.11, it sure messed up my default Aux window! WTH were they thinking??

[Lee Batchelor]

Bill wrote "To get the Slider Display window on the Aux Screen to appear instead of the Rotary Knob window, make sure you Tick the "Assignable Buttons" when saving a Reg."

I did that and also clicked Live control. It doesn't work. The wrong default window is etched in stone with Version 2.11 👿!

[Lee Batchelor]

Okay, I've decided to try rolling back to Version 2.10 from 2.11. I need to get this perfect. The only real enhancements I needed from the original OS is:

1) Tempo reset to the first beat by pressing the Tap Tempo button.
2) The function that gives focus to a knob or slider before any change is made.

To Fred's point, I can download Version 2.10 and read the instructions hopefully that Yamaha provides for such a rollback. Prior to doing this, I put the Genos into USB mode and copied the directories shown in the attached pic. Is there anything else I need to do? Perhaps a full backup? Thanks.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Fred Smith]

Okay, I've decided to try rolling back to Version 2.10 from 2.11. I need to get this perfect. The only real enhancements I needed from the original OS is:

1) Tempo reset to the first beat by pressing the Tap Tempo button.
2) The function that gives focus to a knob or slider before any change is made.

To Fred's point, I can download Version 2.10 and read the instructions hopefully that Yamaha provides for such a rollback. Prior to doing this, I put the Genos into USB mode and copied the directories shown in the attached pic. Is there anything else I need to do? Perhaps a full backup?

The problem is you can't download 2.10 (at least from the Yamaha site) as they keep only the latest version on their site. You will need to have kept the file on your computer, or find someone who has it.

In terms of what to do beforehand, it's an OS install. Do what you do for an OS install. For me, that's nothing, but for you it might be something else.

Cheers,
Fred

[Lee Batchelor]

Okay, I didn't know that Fred. I don't have 2.10. Anyone willing to share it? Thanks.

[Lee Batchelor]

New information
I see a pattern. Here's a series of events that I can't explain nor can anyone on this site so far.

• I load Registration Bank 1. I call the first registration. The Knob Assign window appears, which is wrong. I change the window to the Slider Assign window and re-save with all parameters checked in the Memory window except, Chord Looper, MIDI Song, and Audio Song.


• I load Registration Bank 3, which I fixed earlier using the same method as in Step 1 because it too displayed the wrong window. When I call the first registration, it displays the Knob Assign window when it should have displayed the Slider Assign window. It's as though my fix was not stored permanently.
  

It seems that I can fix all my Registration Banks one at a time but as soon as I call one that's not fixed, the Genos ignores all my previous fixes that I checked in the Memory window. I'm not sure but I think power cycling the Genos fixes the error.

What the heck gives? Is this truly an OS problem or do I have a corrupted file somewhere. I checked the version notes and the only difference between 2.10 and 2.11 is that they fixed a problem in which MIDI template files could not be saved under normal operation. I doubt rolling back to 2.10 is going to solve anything.

Something isn't right and it's very disruptive during a show. Thanks .

Edit
On power cycling the Genos, I load Registration Bank 3 and the Knob Assign window appears. I load another registration where the Slider Assign window was displayed and when I reload I Registration Bank 3, it's okay now. It's as though the Knob and Slider windows are stored randomly and not as part of the registration, when in fact, the necessary parameters for this to occur are consistently being ignored. This never happened before the 2.11 update.

I'm completely stumped. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear Yamaha got Microsoft to do the update. This is the kind of nonsense you get from those people 🙄!

[Stijn]

Here is a link to the Genos firmware update 2.10

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0orrker4xdjqnc/GENOSSETUP.PRG?dl=0

Regards,

Stijn

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Stijn! Do you think this will help after reading my ramblings?

[Stijn]

I don't know if it will solve the problem, but there's no harm in trying.
You can safely do the update 2.10 and check out if there is a difference.

Afterwards you can do the update 2.11 again.

Stijn

[Stijn]

Lee, I sent a PM (on this forum).

Edit

Lee, can you check the update version on your Genos?

-Call up the operation display via [MENU] - [Utility]
-Touch [System]  -->  Version  xxx

Stijn

[Lee Batchelor]

Lee, I sent a PM (on this forum).

Edit

Lee, can you check the update version on your Genos?

-Call up the operation display via [MENU] - [Utility]
-Touch [System]  -->  Version  xxx

Stijn

Well, this is embarrassing! I checked and it shows that I'm still running 2.02 🙄!! I thought I had updated to 2.11 long ago. Oops, my bad! I suppose I'm safe to download 2.11 and install it?

From the Yamaha website it reads:
[V2.00 to V2.01]
Fixed a problem in which the Registration Memory function would not work properly in some cases.

I'd lay odds that my problem has been fixed by Yamaha and I was too dumb to update my Genos correctly! I could have sworn that I loaded 2.11. Perhaps I downloaded 2.11 but grabbed the wrong file and reloaded 2.02 🙄. Perhaps I've had too many birthdays?

Many thanks to Stijn for asking me to check my OS version number. Duh....😀.

[Lee Batchelor]

I updated to Version 2.11. The Knob and Slider windows still display as though they have a mind of their own. Stijn is right. There's no solution to this problem and it SUCKS BIG TIME!! I assume everyone has the same behavior in their Genos? It may not matter to some but for stage work, it is a major distraction and can really mess up your shows.

Picture this scenario
You're doing a demanding show. You call 6 registrations in a row and they all display the Slider window as the default. You can make dynamic changes as you play. Wonderful! You call song Registration 7 and the Knob window is displayed but you don't notice the change because you have the opening riffs and licks. You get through those few demanding passages and into the body of the song but realize, the Right 1 voice is a bit loud. You grab that slider only to find out the Slider window has changed to Knob even though you memorized the registration correctly.

And that my friends is on Yamaha. They tout the Genos as a pro-level keyboard. I submit that they're wrong in so many ways. I never had this issue with the first OS release, nor the Tyros models. Guess I have to live with it and adjust that window display manually for each registration by pressing the appropriate button twice. They need to fire the chimpanzee who authorized that OS code 👎👎👎!!

[Stijn]

I modified all my registrations with success.
All the registration buttons now use the Slider Assign display.

Stijn

[Bill]

Hi Lee

Thanks for the update - Intriguing

To summarise -
Buttons 1-6 behave as expected, but when you push Reg 7 the display changes to Knob control.

Couple of questions / comments.

1  What happens when you reselect Button 1 does it change back to Slider Control.
2  What happens when you apply the Freeze button (with only the Live Control and Assignable selected)
3  Have you attempted to resave Button 7 after you re-apply the Slider Control.
4  You could attach one of your Suspect Reg and let us have a look at it. 
    Quite often you (all of us) can get to focussed on a problem and need time away.
5. I have not encountered your Problem.
6  It would be nice is others could comment whether there are having problems.
7  The only problem that I can visulise is a possible dirty track on one of the Knob controls, and the keyboard gets confused and think you have actually touched on of them.

Regards
Bill

Regards

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for chiming. I should clarify my terminology. In my examples, Registration 1 refers to a bank, not just Button 1 inside a bank. Sorry for the confusion. So, Registrations 1 to 6 are 6 banks, 1 per song = 6 songs. Registration 7 is another song. So, 7 songs in all.

Stijn posted that his works perfectly. He has graciously offered to look over a few of my registrations to see why the Slider window is not being memorized. I'm most intrigued by your suggestion #7. I virtually never use the knobs. That is a definite possibility. I have a can of contact cleaner. Perhaps I could shoot a wee bit into each knob shaft? Other times, I've just worked a knob or slider back and forth so it strips off any oxide.

[DerekA]

I am just wondering because I'm not at the keyboard just now.

There's only one live control screen, and it always shows *either* the knob functions or the slider functions. But when it's showing the knob functions, the sliders still work and still operate whatever the current 'set' of assignments operate. If you move a slider, the display will switch to showing the slider functions.

So I'm wondering even if the screen shows the knob functions, do the sliders still do what you wanted them to do?

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Derek,

I didn't know that if the Knob window was displayed, the Slider window would appear just by moving a slider. Good to know. The real issue is, for the slider to do something it must receive the focus first. Then, adjustments are made. There is also more than one slider window. Sometimes I need the organ sliders made available so I can adjust the footages. The choice of Slider window used to be memorized by the registration. With the new OS updates, sometimes it works and sometimes it reverts to the Knob display. Also, if the Knobs are displayed and you want to adjust Right 3 (for example), with your method you can easily miss and move the wrong slider because you don't have the labeling from the Slider window.

Stijn says his choice of Slider window is always memorized in his registrations. I sent him a dozen or so of mine. He's going to see if there's something wrong with mine. Thanks for chiming in .

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks to everyone who helped me with this issue. I'd like to give a special thanks to Stijn. He looked at a dozen or so of my registrations and found the issue, thanks to Murray's Best's program. Thanks to you too, Murray!

Turns out some of my registrations were not memorized with the Live Control box checked. When I loaded one of those registrations, the Genos reverted to the Knob settings. I should have done what most people do and that is to create the perfect registration template. When a new song is created, I use the template and save it under the new song name. Can't miss. I'm glad there's nothing wrong with my Genos or its OS. In the back of my mind I was thinking it could be pilot error. Stijn proved it 🙄!

Thanks again Stijn, Murray, and the others who helped 👍!

[vlbrgt]

What is a 'Perfect Registration Template' ?
I always start with an empty registration.
That empty registration has been made by starting the Genos while holding down the second most right key.
I saved this registration, and call it everytime I start creating a new one.
Is that what you refered to as the 'perfect registration template' ?

Regards
Etienne

[Lee Batchelor]

For me, a perfect registration presents a decent baseline sound.

* Usually Concert Grand for Right 1.
* Drastically reduced reverb on all channels because Yamaha still lives in the 70s and believes you can hide flaws in one's playing by adding copious amounts of reverb.
* A custom rotary organ effect.
* All pertinent check boxes selected in the Memory box.
* Kick and toms routed to Sub Out 1 because Yamaha sets those two drum volumes WAY TOO loud for people who choose to use real speakers.
* Probably a few other parameters I've neglected to mention because I'm not in front of my Genos 😀.

[EileenL]

Your perfect Registration template would be to make sure you select and tick all the memory boxes for things you want to happen when that registration is selected.

[Lee Batchelor]

Good thought, Eileen. Thanks...