Style Mixer Slider window revisited

[Lee Batchelor]

I updated to V2.13. No change. The Knob Assign window keeps appearing after a registration with it memorized is selected.

Even when that faulty registration is re-memorized with the Live Control > Slider Assign window selected, any registration with Knob Assign memorized, overrides the corrected registration. Subsequent registrations that have been correct all along get overridden with the Knob Assign window, unless you select the registration button twice 👿. It's as though the Genos is randomly ignoring registrations that have Live Control > Slider Assign memorized. Knob Assign is the default view and appears whenever it feels like it. This NEVER happened with V2.11 or earlier. Something is amiss.

I sent the Yamaha support guy yet another note, this time with fire in my message. He had replied 20 days earlier after receiving the video that Stijn so generously made, saying he'd "get back to me in a few days." No word so far! I basically told him that someone needs to light a fire under the backside of whoever is in charge and do something.

Korg is looking pretty darn good at this point!!!

[vlbrgt]

Ok
The problem wasn't in 2.10
It came with v2.11
v 2.13 didn't change anything (didn't solve your problem)

Solution : back to 2.10

Regards
Etienne
.

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Etienne. Two thoughts:

1 - Can I revert to 2.10? I'm not sure how far back one can go with the Genos OS.

2 - I find it strange that I'm the only one reporting this issue. Aren't there any others?

[vlbrgt]

My last reply was a bit simple to say, but ...
It was the reaction of a programmer (me) that tries to solve a problem.

1 - Can I revert to 2.10? I'm not sure how far back one can go with the Genos OS.

It is not mentioned that it is not possible as with the v1.40 update.
So I suppose it's possible, otherwise Yamaha would have mentioned it.
To be sure you could ask it your dealer or at Yamaha directly.
Perhaps someone on this forum already did a reinstall of an older firmware ?

2 - I find it strange that I'm the only one reporting this issue. Aren't there any others?

That is indeed what intrigues me.
Perhaps there are not many people using the Live Controls while playing.
But even if, Stijn nor me where able to reproduce the problem on our Genos.

Question :
Explain from 0 how you make a registration.
What registration do you start with when making a new one ?
Could you send me this 'template' registration ?
Or do you make a new registration from the one that is loaded into the keyboard at that moment ?

Regards
Etienne

[Lee Batchelor]

Question :
Explain from 0 how you make a registration.
What registration do you start with when making a new one ?
Could you send me this 'template' registration ?
Or do you make a new registration from the one that is loaded into the keyboard at that moment ?

Thanks, Etienne. One possible error I've made all along is NOT using a reliable template. I know members have been adamant about using a template with known parameters. I can see why now. To create a new registration, I've usually opened a registration that had the similar styling I'm looking for. I would change the necessary parameters for the new song, and then save it under a new name. This method has worked perfectly through 5 arranger keyboards. In theory, there should be no difference between using a registration that I know works perfectly as a template and modifying it, or using a known master template. Perhaps this is not a reliable way to do things with the Genos. After all, it was a complete redesign. Doing it my way could be a big no-no.

I received a note from Yamaha support just an hour ago. The tech said the same thing as you. He can't reproduce the problem on his Genos either. I assume that when he creates a registration with the Knob Assign or Slider Assign window as the default, things work fine. One registration doesn't "contaminate" another registration the way it does on my Genos. If no one on this forum is having the problem and even the tech can't reproduce the problem, that tells me there may be something corrupted in my Genos OS, despite the updates from Yamaha. An update is not a complete overwrite of the OS, correct? Rather it's an add-on or correction to certain lines of code. If I've done something along the line that has created the problem, there's no guarantee an update would straighten out the issue, correct? Should I try doing a System reset? I have no idea what backups I need to do or what the effects are.

Perhaps with the Genos, you can't just use "any" registration as a template for a new song because if there are any anomalies in this template, they get compounded when used as a template for a new registration. If that template is used again as a source registration, things just get worse. Perhaps this behavior is inherent in the Genos. My only alternative is to rebuild all my registration files – an ENORMOUS task.

Further thoughts?

[vlbrgt]

There is still Stijn who is trying to 'batch' changing your registrations.
Perhaps waiting for his result before doing anything else.
If he can solve it, the better.

In the meantime could you send me just one or a few of those 'corrupted' registrations.

Regards
Etienne

[EileenL]

When using old registrations from previous keyboards it will be essential to make sure all the boxes in memory are ticked to your liking and the 10 registrations are then resaved as a bank. Previous keyboards would not have had the assignable button to tick on them. So with luck may work or as you have found will not.

[Lee Batchelor]

I just received an email from Stijn. He played around with some registrations I had sent a week or so ago. He sees the same issues that I do but his Genos behaves normally otherwise. His conclusion is the same as Eileen and others. There is likely a few "bad" registrations that have been carried forward from my previous Tyros models. The Genos has simply detected these errors and has no way to correct them. I'm going to find the bad registrations, delete them, and rebuild them from a template. I'm confident my problem will be solved.

Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion and special thanks to Stijn for making videos, and attempting to diagnose and repair my registrations. I'll send a quick note off to Yamaha Canada advising them to hold off any further trouble shooting. Stay well all...

- Lee

[Lee Batchelor]

Well folks, the jury is in.

I just spent two hours revamping my "broken" registrations that show the Knob window instead of the Slider window. There is no way to fix this! The recent updates have caused this problem. I'm starting to hear from a few others who are seeing the same problem. It's not wide spread but I can tell you, it is a major nuisance!

I had 50 registrations in one folder. I spotted the few that were saved with Live Control turned off. I recreated them and saved them under a slightly different name, deleted the broken one, and then renamed the fixed one to its original name. It was going well until I opened another broken registration. I went back to the registration I had just fixed and it is now broken!! The only fix so far, is to push the registration button twice, then the Slider window appears. This is not a decent solution when you play in a band that blends one song into the next.

Even if this fix worked, it would take me weeks to rebuild all my registrations because some have a huge amount of parameter, effects, and EQ changes. I even tried fixing a broken registration making the Slider window appear, and then saving the registration under a different name. It worked once but the second time I opened it, the registration reverted to the Knob window. In short, those who were dumb enough (like me) to build a huge library of registrations with some where Live Control was unchecked, are basically screwed thanks to Yamaha and their moronic updates. Eileen may be on to something when she said that carrying forward registrations from lower models to the Genos, can introduce issues. And please – feel free to NOT chime in and tell me you've loaded registrations from your PSR3000, through all the Tyros keyboards, to the Genos without any issues and with no tweaks! That comment does me no good.

From the Yamaha website,
[V2.00 to V2.01]
Fixed a problem in which the Registration Memory function would not work properly in some cases.

To me this says Yamaha created a global command to make the Knob window the default one. If any registration has a minor error or omission, the Knob window is selected by default. If I had my way, I'd revert to the lowest possible update I can. Any thoughts on that? What is the lowest one that would work? The only improvement I've ever used since the original release is the ability to put the focus on a volume slider first before making the adjustment. The rest of the stuff I've never used and could care less about.

[Bill]

Hi Lee

Thanks for the Update, sorry to hear you are still having problems.

I know you are totally against using the Freeze function and it is not a Fix, However until you do get it fixed why not use it.

It will not affect your gigging and won't freeze anything you don't want it to. My photo  shows that I have 3 selections, but you can only select the one if you want.  At least it would help.

Bill



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[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Bill. You have a splendid idea there and it does work.

The downside is when I choose a registration where I need the organ sliders displayed, and I have a fair amount of those. I still need to manually toggle thorough the Slider group until the organ sliders appear. Some of my custom styles don't function correctly with the Freeze function turned on. I have no idea why, but its yet another anomaly of the famous "Genos."

I know my desire to have the correct window appear for every registration is a bit anal but with the types of bands I play in, I have enough to do preparing for the next song, then worrying if the Genos software is going to behave "this time." After all, the whole philosophy behind registrations is to automate all the nuisance work so we can concentrate on the task at hand - and that's to simply play the Genos. If we have to constantly correct for terrible OS designs, the stress level on the stage goes through the roof.

Imagine if an airline pilot had his or her electronics functioning correctly only 80% of the time and the remaining 20% was totally unpredictable, that aircraft would be grounded, if not scrapped!

[Lee Batchelor]

Update (October 29, 2022)

I sent a sample folder of my registrations to a Yamaha support tech. Here's his reply.

Hi Lee,
Thanks for sharing this folder. Using it I was able to better understand the issue you are having. I was finally able to reproduce the issue using these registrations.
Then I tried to reproduce the issue using new registrations and was unable to...so my best guess is that some type of memory corruption got introduced in an update. As painful as it is, I suggest that you do a full factory reset. Make sure you back everything up and then update all the way to 2.01. It is possible that you will have to resave the registrations that are not behaving once you have done that.
Keep me in the loop and so sorry you are facing this issue.

It sounds like he wants me to revert to V2.01. This is very confusing to me. Also, I don't understand the implications of doing a Factory Reset. What data will I lose? Do I place the Genos in USB mode and copy all directories to my computer? Do I do a full backup and then restore it once the V2.01 is installed?

Does this make any sense to you folks???

[Stijn]

Here is a link to the update V2.01.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg45gcjmap11vgz/genos_v201.zip?dl=0

Check p 105 of the Operator's Manual for Data Backup and Restore.

It's a good idea to use the USB mode and backup all the directories.

Stijn

[Michael Trigoboff]

If Murray's code is open source, you might be able to find a programmer for hire who was willing to write a utility app to change that setting in all of your registration files.

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi again, guys. I heard back from Yamaha support and the tech made an error. He said to definitely install V2.13.

Michael, if his idea of resetting works, I can go through the registrations pretty fast and resave them. I've done that in the past but it hasn't worked, Hence, why he thinks there is corrupted memory somewhere. Thanks... 👍.

[Lee Batchelor]

I backed up everything to a USB drive and my PC. It is a .bup file. I also put the Genos into USB mode and backed up all directories that appeared.
I'm about to do a factory reset. In that screen, what items should I select?

They are
System
User Effect
Favorite
MIDI
Registration
Live Control

Perhaps all of them? Thanks...

[Stijn]

I would go for all of them.

Stijn

[Lee Batchelor]

I'll do that. Thanks Stijn.

[Lee Batchelor]

Okay, I went into the Utility screen > Factory Reset and checked all the boxes. I confirmed the Reset.

I would have thought that my registrations would have been deleted but they are all still there. So are my custom voices. Did the reset work? Why did the Yamaha tech say it would be "painful?"

Anyway, it didn't work. The registrations are still not working correctly. At first a registration will display the Slider window, and then after selecting one that has the Knob window, the previous one "might" show the slider window but when choosing a third registration that showed the Slider window originally, it now shows the Knob window. Do I have to reload update V2.13?

Somehow, I don't think my Genos has been reset.

[Stijn]

You can try this method:

For the reset (you lose all user data, hence a backup is useful): keep a Cis-Dur chord pressed (Cis, F and Gis) when switching on, in the 2nd octave from the left.

When the word "Test" appears on the Display, you can release.

Now press 2x the [Tempo -] button (Factory Set) and then 2x the [Start / Stop] button.

Now press the [Tempo +] button (Test Exit) 1x and then [Start / Stop] again.
Wait until the Genos has completely booted.

Stijn

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Stijn. I'm not sure what "Cis-Dur chord pressed (Cis, F and Gis)" means. Would you explain please?

[Stijn]

It's a C sharp major

C# F  G#






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[Lee Batchelor]

Okay, thanks Stijn .

[Lee Batchelor]

Stijn,

Is there a difference between your method and the one where you hold down the right most key and power on?

It seems the Factory Reset utility does nothing useful. I read that the Registrations will remain, which is useless to me.

Yamaha's Factory Reset nomenclature is a joke. To me, that means it will reset my ENTIRE Genos to how it was packaged at the factory. I'm quite sure the Genos didn't ship all over the world with my registrations and custom voices 🙄. Why do they call it a Factory Reset when it doesn't even come close to doing so??

[EileenL]

Factory re-set dose exactly that. It sets everything back to when you take it out of the box.  As Genos does not come with registrations then it will have no effect on any you have saved.

[ton37]

Factory re-set dose exactly that. It sets everything back to when you take it out of the box .....

So, it does not .... 

[Jeff Hollande]

So, it does not .... 

Hey Ton :

Do you have an alternative ?

Plse advise. Thanks, JH

[ton37]

I (as a consumer) shouldn't have to come up with a workaround. yamaha should make it easier for the buyer in this regard. There are plenty of examples (eg through menus) how this can be done much better. Now you have to manually delete some data. @Lee already pointed out that this function does not work as it promises.!

[EileenL]

Holding down the right most key is known as a soft reset and dose not set everything back. Usually used if you have had a glitch by trying to load something the keyboard does not like.
  If you have loaded in old registrations that were not set as you wanted them the only way to go is set the memory ticks up as you want them and resave the offending banks. There is no other way to do this. A factory re-set will NOT do this.

[Lee Batchelor]

Once again, we are faced with a Yamaha OS design that colors outside the lines of conventional PC and Mac operating systems (OS). I understand the Genos OS is Linux. I can understand if they have no choice but to use this system. I'd wager the number of PC and Mac users compared to Linux users is staggering. Our computer schemata is rooted in PC or Mac systems, not Linux.

By definition a Factory Reset (also referred to as a system restore) returns your computer to the same state it was in when it rolled off the assembly line. It removes files and programs you created and installed, deletes drivers, and returns settings to their defaults. Note the phrase, "rolled off the assembly line." This does not happen with a Genos Factory Reset. Say what you want but this is a misleading label in the Genos OS. I don't care if it's run by Linux, Windows, or Mac. It doesn't work according to any definition of a Factory Reset!!

I've contacted Yamaha support and a Factory Reset was their recommendation, as I wrote earlier. Enough defending Yamaha based on a stellar previous history. Plain and simple, my Genos is broken and warranty be damned - they need to walk me through the steps to fix this. If Eileen is correct about a possible bug created by bringing registrations forward from 4 previous models, then I need a Factory Reset that works, not some ridiculous temporary fix that does nothing.

The Yamaha tech said the memory core is likely corrupted. Well how do I fix it??!! His solution was a Factory Reset. It didn't work. What's next? I have asked him and am waiting for an answer.

I don't blame Yamaha one bit for this failure, other than something they did with one of their updates. They made the Knob window the default, for some dumb reason! There's no doubt that carrying forward 250 registrations that were created on a PSR3000, and then modified through 4 more keyboards, may be a problem down the line. There's no way Yamaha can predict that. Fine. What they MUST do is provide a viable solution!! I'm still waiting.