Please fix this flaw for 2.0 Please!!!!

[Lee Batchelor]

  Perhaps I am missing the point but isn't it possible to multi-pad edit and remove the unwanted function by deleting?   Bob

I think that's what Pad Stopper does. It sets the velocity of the selected pad to 0, I think, which is basically the same as deleting it .

[EileenL]

Yes Bob you can do it this way but easier to set the volume to 0 in the mixer and then save to registration. I think most prefer to use Pad Stopper.

[Joe H]

... Elad wants to go the path of least resistance .

Yes... it's called laziness.  If he took the time to read my article and download the files which demonstrate examples of how to use the Pad Stopper file, he might just learn something.

If we want to play well we have to practice.  If we want to get the most out of our arrangers... we have to learn how to use them in a creative way. Sometimes that takes work, not unlike practicing to become a good musician.



Joe H

[Joe H]

Actually, no. The desired behaviour can be modeled as a simple finite state machine, which is easy to implement.

Obviously you lack the knowledge of how Multi Pads are constructed and formatted.  Talk is cheap.

Joe H

[Dromeus]

Obviously you lack the knowledge

Obviously your way of "arguing" in such a fashion becomes boring... Really not interested in hot air.

[Fred Smith]

I think that's what Pad Stopper does. It sets the velocity of the selected pad to 0, I think, which is basically the same as deleting it .

That's not what Padstopper does. It makes no changes to any pad settings. It only does what you want — nothing.

To explain what I thought was obvious:
— let's say you have mp1 running
— if you load a new mp1 (through a registration), the old one will stop and the new one will start running
— that's what padstopper does: you load it, replacing the previous pad which of course stops, and padstopper starts running doing what it's told to do, which is nothing
— net effect, you've stopped a multipad: just what you want.

Cheers,
Fred

[Lee Batchelor]

Good to know, Fred. I must admit I've never needed Pad Stopper and thus don't know how it works. The net effect is the same. One pad is "stopped" not "turned down to 0" as I originally thought.

Until Yamaha comes up with a software change for this feature Elad, download and implement Pad Stopper. It is your current least path of resistance .

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

Seems to me that make a registration at zero is the way to go!!.
Then there is nothing. Works for me when changing registrations.
Otherwise a slick finger press.

[overover]

... Seems to me that make a registration at zero is the way to go!!.
Then there is nothing. Works for me when changing registrations.
Otherwise a slick finger press.

Hi John,

if a playing Multi Pad should be "stopped" directly when selecting another Registration (and NO other Multi Pad should be started at the same time), you can memorize the Multi Pad volume turned down to 0 in that Registration, of course. (The Pad keeps on running inaudibly in the background.)

But if you want to stop a playing Pad and to start another Pad simultaneously, you have to use a "StopPad" (also called "PadStopper"). In this case, you have to make a new, special User Multi Pad bank (with a "StopPad" on the Pad #, which shoud stop and with the "new" Pad on another Pad #, which should start).

A little "blemish" is that the previous Pad is still playing, first. It only will be stopped (and the new Pad started) when you play the next CHORD by the left hand.


An original "StopPad" Multi Pad bank file consists of four (4) identical Pads: Each of these pads does nothing but sending one single, inaudible note (of velocity 1) when activated.


Best regards,
Chris

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chris

I think i have got that. Thanks for the explanation

All the best
John

[Joe H]

Obviously your way of "arguing" in such a fashion becomes boring... Really not interested in hot air.

That's a grand projection.  I don't argue.

For the benefit of those who are willing to learn something about how Multi Pads work I will try to give as simple an explanation as I can. After all, that's the main purpose of this forum.

Our arrangers are made up of several specialized MIDI sequencers.

The Song sequencer is for the most part a "standard" MIDI sequencer which plays and records songs in MIDI Type 0 file format. (16 MIDI channels on 1 track)

The Style sequencer, also Type 0 file format has special "chunks" to play and record styles which is a modified form of MIDI song file.  The special chunks included non-MIDI parts of the file. These are OTS, and the CASM. The 8 Parts of the style are "looped" to repeat over and over.

The Voice Set is also a MIDI sequencer (I believe Type 0 also) it's purpose is to hold MIDI controller messages to setup Left and Right Voices. After the Voice loads, the Voice Set file loads and modifies the Voice to play as we hear it.  When we assign a Voice for a style Part, the Voice Set file is NOT used.

The Multi Pad player/recorder is a 5 track sequencer that supports Type 1 MIDI files. Each of the 4 Pads (Multi Pad Bank) is on a separate track and a separate MIDI channel, plus there is one track for setup information. Like the style Parts, Multi Pads are short musical phrases or drum beats consisting of 1 to 8 bars of note data. Which can be set play just once or "Repeat" (loop function is turned On as with the style Parts).  There is also 8 Code Types for controlling playback of the Pads.  Not all of these types are understood and what their function is.

When we load a Multi Pad file, there is an Edit Tab we can select to Copy & Paste or Delete individual Pads.  We can copy a single Pad and Paste it into another Multi Pad Bank, (there is an automatic delete function that takes place before the paste operation). Because of the structure of the Multi Pad Bank being 4 separate tracks, the only way to create custom Multi Pads is by Copy and Paste... and Yamaha has made that easy for us to do.

The Pad Stopper file is made up of a simple tracks consisting of a single note with Note Velocity set to a value of 1 and Volume is set to 0, and also is set to play only once (Repeat turned Off).  The result is silence... then the track stops playing.

The Pad Stopper file has all 4 Pads programmed this way. So if you want to stop all 4 Pads playing with your next registration... that will be the result.  It's a simple solution. 

Where it gets more complicated is in the example I gave above... two pads continue to play, one stops, and the 4th will play a different Pad than the previous registration. The only way to accomplish this is to create a custom Multi Pad which contains the 2 Pads already playing, Pad Stopper on the one Pad you wish to stop playing and a new Pad copied from a different Multi Pad file.  When Sync Start is memorized for all 4 Pads, the result will be as describe above... 2 will continue to play, one will stop and the 4th be a new Pad.

Yamaha could add a Sync Stop, but that would require a dedicated button that would work similarly to the Sync Start button. But the limitation would be we couldn't change one or more Pads to a different Pad because of the limitations in MIDI implementation.  The only way to do that is with the Copy & Paste operation and creating a custom Multi Pad Bank.

So using the Pad Stopper file is superior to a Sync Stop button on the keyboard. It's just a matter of putting it to use.

I hope this clears things up. My apologies if I missed something on the description of the arranger architecture. It's a complicated machine!

Joe H

   

[Al Ram]

I believe that alternatives were already provided . . . so, this is not to provide alternative solutions or discuss the matter. 

I just wanted to thank whoever created the padStopper multi-pad.  I use it in almost all my registrations in combination with the zero-volume.  It works great (for me at least).

Whoever came up with the idea and implementation . . . thanks a lot.  It is a great way to solve the issue.   It is near genius.

If i knew the name of the person or team i would give credit . . . 

Great work.  !!!!

[ton37]

I believe that alternatives were already provided . . . so, this is not to provide alternative solutions or discuss the matter. 

I just wanted to thank whoever created the padStopper multi-pad.  I use it in almost all my registrations in combination with the zero-volume.  It works great (for me at least).

Whoever came up with the idea and implementation . . . thanks a lot.  It is a great way to solve the issue.   It is near genius.

If i knew the name of the person or team i would give credit . . . 

Great work.  !!!!

Amen to that ....

[reya]

In the V2.0 announcement list of changes Yamaha mentiones "MultiPad parts added on Mixer Display"

They are currently allready present in the Mixer on PSR SX900, and it's my guess they will appear in the same way on Genos v2.0
The Multpad buttons are shown in the Mixer, one next to each other, just like Rhythm1, Rhythm2, Bass ... are shown one next to each other  for a Style.
And just like the parts in a style, they can be switched off individually by deselecting the green button on top.
When deselected, a multipad button immediately stops playing.

One thing currently missing (on SX900) is that their status (on or off) cannot be saved to a registration button. Once this is possible there may be no more need to use the padstopper ...
It's my guess (hope) this is a bug which will be corrected on PSR SX900 with a future update and will hopefully be present immediately in Genos V2.0

Best Regards
Rudy

[valimaties]

I think this Start/Stop is a flag for each pad, and they could be stored in registrations. It is simple IMO.
They have to modify the C++ function of reading registration to read individual flags for each Pad and to do the job, start, stop OR do nothing. The last one (do nothing) is for pads which must play when you change the registration, the pad is playing and it Must playing without stop or restart, regarding of pad type (loop or not)...

Regards,
Vali

[Lee Batchelor]

Great explanation, Joe! Thanks !

- Lee

[Lee Batchelor]

Rudy, if the individual Multipads are shown in the mixer, I assume their On or Off status can be saved as part of a Registration. That eliminates the need for Pad Stopper because all mixer settings are stored in a registration, correct?

I'm probably confused because you mentioned that on the SX900, the green lights are shown in the mixer and can be turned On or Off just like any other part in a style. But then you say their status is not saved. That makes no sense. I would think Yamaha would include those settings in the registration Save operation.

[valimaties]

It is strange, Lee.

In SX900/700 owner manual, page 80 it is written : "M.Pad   -   Use this display when you want to adjust the balance among the four Audio Link Multi Pads." And that's all.. Anyway, Yamaha's details in manuals there were not be full of description ever..

[reya]

Rudy, if the individual Multipads are shown in the mixer, I assume their On or Off status can be saved as part of a Registration. That eliminates the need for Pad Stopper because all mixer settings are stored in a registration, correct?

Lee, no not correct, that's why I think it is a bug. Their status is currently (V 1.03) not saved as part of a registration. (I do have Multi Pad checked when saving to registration button)
So I cannot see the use of it as it is.
I have contacted Yamaha support about this today. Wonder what they will respond.

Best regards
Rudy

[jwyvern]

On p. 87 of the sx data list which shows Mixer parameters the Multipad (midi and audio) parts on and off are available, but are not saveable to a registration.
John

[reya]

It is strange, Lee.

In SX900/700 owner manual, page 80 it is written : "M.Pad   -   Use this display when you want to adjust the balance among the four Audio Link Multi Pads." And that's all.. Anyway, Yamaha's details in manuals there were not be full of description ever..

Vali,

Yes ,strange indeed as there are no volume controls present on the Multi Pad tab in the mixer. So no way to balance them.
No controls at all really except the possibility to switch the multi pads on or off.

Best regards
Rudy

[jwyvern]

On p. 87 of the sx data list which shows Mixer parameters the Multipad (midi and audio) parts on and off are available, but are not saveable to a registration.
John

Ps following Rudy's comment the Data list shows a volume offset for Mpads in Mixer, (p86 I think) and it is saveable in regs.

[reya]

Ps following Rudy's comment the Data list shows a volume offset for Mpads in Mixer, (p86 I think) and it is saveable in regs.

jwyvern

I did not know this information was available in the data list manual. Thanks for that tip !!!
And yes I now saw that too. There should be volume, pan, chorus and reverb available in the mixer for Multi pads, only I do not see them on the multi pad screen ...

Either I am doing something wrong or there is a software update on the way for the SX900 as well ... 

Best regards
Rudy

[reya]

And yes I now saw that too. There should be volume, pan, chorus and reverb available in the mixer for Multi pads, only I do not see them on the multi pad screen ...

The datalist manual only talks about Audio Link Multi Pad's when talking about volume, pan, chorus and reverb ....
Not available for midi multi pads ...

Best regards
Rudy

[Joe H]

I believe that alternatives were already provided . . . so, this is not to provide alternative solutions or discuss the matter. 

I just wanted to thank whoever created the padStopper multi-pad.  I use it in almost all my registrations in combination with the zero-volume.  It works great (for me at least).

Whoever came up with the idea and implementation . . . thanks a lot.  It is a great way to solve the issue.   It is near genius.

If i knew the name of the person or team i would give credit . . . 

Great work.  !!!!

Al,

We don't know who created the idea.  The first version I used contained just sy*** messages.  The one Fred uploaded was created by me... but was modified so the volume is set to 70. But since the note velocity is set to a value of 1 it still works as it should.  After working with Michael Bedesem on MixMaster and PadMaker-Midi for several years, I knew enough to create a Pad Stopper file that was formatted correctly and wouldn't cause any glitches.

Cheers,
Joe H

[valimaties]

Lee, no not correct, that's why I think it is a bug.

I don't think it is a bug, more it is a limitation

A bug is when the programmer does not know about it ... But they tell in Datalist that is not available, so it is known

[musicman01]

Hello dear members of this forum.

I don't like to respond to comments.
But I have to stand by "Elad" here and agree completely!
The Genos is a fantastic instrument, but also has a number of errors that in practice lead to annoyance for sometimes simple things that are obvious to other brands.
One can solve a lot by detours as described, but why not simply do it for example: multipad1,2,3,4 on, following registration 1,2,3 off and 4 continues to play this seems so simple but it just does not work !! This should just be able to work no more or less. All respect for the proposals but for the software programmers this is easy to solve !!!!!
Another suggestion, why not multipad on / off such as sound on / off?

PS: this is a well-intended response, and certainly not to hurt anyone!

Best regards

Musicman

[EileenL]

We already have Multi Pad on and stop. I don't understand why this is being called a flaw. The operation has been the same on all Yamaha keyboards since I can remember. It is not a Flaw it is the way it is and always has been.

[Dromeus]

Let's not get lost in semantics discussion. It's certainly not a bug, some would not see it as a flaw, I would call it a missing feature.

Remember Tyros 2? There was no SYNC START button. We had Multipad on and it was the same on all Yamaha keyboards since... It was the way it was and always has been.

Then came Tyros 3 and an new feature called SYNC START.  For me this was one of the best innovations that came with Tyros 3. Finally it was possible to have a style and a multipads running together in time. So let's not look back what we always had but how we could improve what we have.

There is clearly a need for a SYNC STOP button, otherwise the workaround "Padstopper" would not have been invented. SYNC STOP is the logical complement to SYNC START, easy to understand and operate, and - in contrary to some remarks here - could be implemented without breaking the current operation of the Multipads.

[Dromeus]

Where it gets more complicated is in the example I gave above... two pads continue to play, one stops, and the 4th will play a different Pad than the previous registration. The only way to accomplish this is to create a custom Multi Pad which contains the 2 Pads already playing, Pad Stopper on the one Pad you wish to stop playing and a new Pad copied from a different Multi Pad file.  When Sync Start is memorized for all 4 Pads, the result will be as describe above... 2 will continue to play, one will stop and the 4th be a new Pad.

If you have two multipads running you may load a new multipad bank at any time and those two multipads keep running. Therefore in your example it would be sufficient to load the bank that contains the new multipad, activate SYNC START for that new multipad and SYNC STOP to the multipad you'd like to stop.