Please fix this flaw for 2.0 Please!!!!

[elad770]

Everbody Heard of Pad stopper?

Does anyone ever try it?

If you did, you would know that the Pad stopper comes to address what I call a Major Design Flaw in the Registration part of the Genos

I play is as follows: I have a registration for each song and then I play 1 - 10 Registration as if it's a story. Start slow, Buildup, A transition, Build up, Grad finale, End - You Get the point! LOL

The multi-pad is an essential component of my "Story Telling" because it adds additional dimension BUT Once the Multipad is ON, there's no coming back! In other words, If Multipad 1,2,3,4
Are engaged and then I go to the quiet part of the song again, A part where there are NO multi pads assigned to that registration It stays on and the player need to manually turn them off
I don't know why users are not making a big noise out of this because it's a major problem that disrupts my flow of playing

Also, since I didn't upgrade yet to any version higher up, could be this is already fixed. But if Not, I really hope they addressed that!

If someone can shed some light over this or any other thoughts that will be Awsome!

[Stijn]

My registrations are similar to yours and to stop Multi Pads I use the Multi Pad Stopper and it works great.

More information: https://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html

See attached zip file.

Stijn

[attachment deleted by admin]

[elad770]

The Whole point is that I DON'T want to use th
Multi stopper . I want to have a registration
Free of Multi Pads when it's not assigned and not have
Multi stopper occupies my multi pad space

[Fred Smith]

Everbody Heard of Pad stopper?

Does anyone ever try it?

If you did, you would know that the Pad stopper comes to address what I call a Major Design Flaw in the Registration part of the Genos

I play is as follows: I have a registration for each song and then I play 1 - 10 Registration as if it's a story. Start slow, Buildup, A transition, Build up, Grad finale, End - You Get the point! LOL

The multi-pad is an essential component of my "Story Telling" because it adds additional dimension BUT Once the Multipad is ON, there's no coming back! In other words, If Multipad 1,2,3,4
Are engaged and then I go to the quiet part of the song again, A part where there are NO multi pads assigned to that registration It stays on and the player need to manually turn them off
I don't know why users are not making a big noise out of this because it's a major problem that disrupts my flow of playing

1. I wouldn't call it a "major design flaw". I would agree it's an annoyance.
2. It's not unique to Genos -- all Yamaha keyboards share the trait.
3. It doesn't happen on all MultiPads -- only those set to repeat.
4. There's currently a simple workaround -- use a Padstopper.

When you're asking for improvements, you need to define what the solution is. All engineers hear about problems. What they need to know is what a reasonable solution is that won't disrupt the current user base.

As you say, when a registration has no multipad info, it means "don't make any changes to my multipads". You want something that means "stop currently running pads". It's not reasonable to redefine "no info" to mean "stop" rather than "no change", as this would have a significant negative impact on the current user base. ("I upgraded to the new OS, and all my pads stopped when I switch registrations! Why would Yamaha do such a thing!!!")

So you need something else in a registration that means "stop". The only reasonable improvement I can think of is to have a Padstopper as a preset. Hardly an earth-shattering change, especially when the workaround is so easy.

Cheers,
Fred

[elad770]

Dear Fred,

I thought I was very specific with my description
If I didnt assign multipad to registration 5 and I'm currently playing Registration 6 with all the multipads on, If I Hit back on Registration 5 I would like the multipad to stop. I think I'm asking for something very logical and I dont know how this affect other users. If it's not assigned it should: A.not be there
B. Stop all current playing multipads when pressed

Same thing if I wanted only Multi Pad 1,4 playing on Registration 7 for example and ASsigned Multipad 2,3 to play on Registration 6 , Upon Pressing Registration 6 Pads 1,4 should stop and 2,3 should kick in.

I think this is a reasonable request and I think it IS a major design flaw. Not of the keyboard but rather the software. I always Regress a song when I perform and move back and forth from the quiet part to the more intense part and to manually have to stop the multi pads is annoying and this is an understatement.

I know you are the Registration expert and I simply dont understand how this issue is not addressed after so many updates.

Would you share the video that demonstrate the usage of the pad stopper again. I would appreciate it

[Lee Batchelor]

Elad, I've run into a similar situation and have come up with a solution that may work for you.

Let's say I have a Reg Bank with Reg 1, 2, and 3 for my song.
Reg 1 Intro
Reg 2 Body of the song with full rhythms running
Reg 3 Outro with piano only

Problem
When I end Reg 2 so that I can just play piano with Reg 3, the Reg 2 drums keep running. That is, when I play just piano in Reg 3, the Reg 2 drums are playing as well. My work-around is to turn the drum volumes to 0 in Reg 3. They are still running but you can't hear them.

Can you do the same with your Reg setups? Any Reg where the Multipads keep running, just turn them down to 0 and re-save that particular Reg.

[elad770]

Lee,
This is a great idea. What didnt I think about it
I truly appreciate your creative thinking.

However,  this only solve HALF of the problem
If you look at my post above I described two scenarios:
Your solution will cover Scenario 1 in which I would like ALL the Pads to Stop.
The Scenerio 2 where I want only Few Pads 1+4 on, and Stop Pads 2+3 wouldn't work because the Volume will effect the Pad Section as a WHOLE.

[Fred Smith]

Lee,
This is a great idea. What didnt I think about it
I truly appreciate your creative thinking.

However,  this only solve HALF of the problem
If you look at my post above I described two scenarios:
Your solution will cover Scenario 1 in which I would like ALL the Pads to Stop.
The Scenerio 2 where I want only Few Pads 1+4 on, and Stop Pads 2+3 wouldn't work because the Volume will effect the Pad Section as a WHOLE.

Just use Padstopper. In your registration which loads the pad on 1+4, you load Padstopper on 2+3.

Cheers,
Fred

[elad770]

Fred, Can you please make a short video
Demonstrating what you just said. I don't know
Why I find this confusing.
I'm willing to pay you for your time!
Im that desperate.

[Lee Batchelor]

Glad to help, Elad.

I didn't know about Pad Stopper and I see that your second problem will not be solved by my solution. It's too broad spectrum. I agree that Pad Stopper is the way to go. It's actually very similar to my idea.

Fred has produced some outstanding Reg videos. Perhaps he can do the same for Pad Stopper. Fred, are you there ?

[Dromeus]

1. I wouldn't call it a "major design flaw". I would agree it's an annoyance.

I would call it a major design flaw. It took Yamaha many years to come up with a multipad sync start button, it is a shame that we are still waiting for a sync stop button after all these years.

2. It's not unique to Genos -- all Yamaha keyboards share the trait.

Doesn't make this that matter even worse?

3. It doesn't happen on all MultiPads -- only those set to repeat.

Now that is really ridiculous. We don't need no sync stop for pads that doesn't repeat, do we?

4. There's currently a simple workaround -- use a Padstopper.

I have been using this workaround for many years, but it does not stop me to point out, that there should be a native solution for that problem.

When you're asking for improvements, you need to define what the solution is. All engineers hear about problems. What they need to know is what a reasonable solution is

Pardon me, Fred, but as a software engineer working in the industry for 40 years I never expected my users to come up with solutions. I was very happy they came up with ideas for improvement, in return they were glad that I came up with solutions.

Anyway, what's wrong with a Multipad Sync Stop button that works analogous to the Sync Start button?

[Lee Batchelor]

The Multipad Stopper is demonstrated on YouTube. Problem is, it's not in English, and you can't get the gist of it from the video. Often you can but not in this case. .

Dromeus and Elad have a point. I think that the earlier PSR keyboards were basically advanced "toys" and very revolutionary in their own right. I owned and sold several of them in the late 80s as a perimeter salesman for Yamaha. And then the Tyros and Genos came to be. They were (and are) NOT toys and are definitely in the pro-level category. I think it's going to take time for Yamaha to realize the monsters they have created and start treating them as such. For reference, I give you Genos I with the Version 2.0 software that's on its way. If that's not a MAJOR step away from the toy factory and more toward the professional market, I don't what is. The feature that Elad needs may very well be on the drawing board for future upgrades now that Yamaha sees who uses the Genos. It's a great keyboard for the home player but also very well suited for the live stage.

Point of interest
I once used my Tyros 5 for backing tracks playing live for Stevie Wonder's, Superstition. It was an outdoor concert in front of about 2,000 people with a huge sound system. There were five band members. I turned off the bass track so that our bassist could play the part, while our drummer sang the song to the T5 drums. We also had live guitarists. I would love to upload a recording but I know of no one who recorded it. My point is, the T5 was successfully used on a pro-level stage. The Genos can certainly match it and I'm sure will receive several pro-level changes in the months to come.

[Fred Smith]

Here's a pad stopper for you. It does exactly what you want -- nothing.

But, when you put it in a registration, it will replace the current pad at that number (thus stopping it), and will execute, doing what it's supposed to -- nothing.

Cheers,
Fred

[attachment deleted by admin]

[panos]

Dear Fred,

I thought I was very specific with my description
If I didnt assign multipad to registration 5 and I'm currently playing Registration 6 with all the multipads on, If I Hit back on Registration 5 I would like the multipad to stop.

Leave multipad in reg 6 as it is.
For the reg 5 which doesn't have a multipad to play,load the pad stopper (a multipad with 4 padstopers in it) and assign it in reg 5.
Before saving it to reg 5, press the synchro start select in multipad so the pad stopper will  play when you change a reg and press a chord.

Same thing if I wanted only Multi Pad 1,4 playing on Registration 7 for example and ASsigned Multipad 2,3 to play on Registration 6 , Upon Pressing Registration 6 Pads 1,4 should stop and 2,3 should kick in.

Create 2 different multipads for the regs.

One multipad for reg 7
with no 1 & no 4 pads as they are and for 2 & 3 use a pad stopper.

A different multipad for reg 6
with no 2 & no 3 pads as they are and for 1 & 4 use a pad stopper.

I think Elad now you regs should work fine.If they don't, there must be another way using the padstopper
I just found out how pad stopper works so I am not familiar with it either.

[Joe H]

It's NOT a flaw... and it's ridiculous to think that there is a simple solution to this problem. Anyone who knows programming knows it would be difficult to write code for leaving Pad #4 running while stopping Pad #2 and start new Pads for #1 and #3.

Your just going to have to do the work if you want complex registrations.

Read my article... the is a link below.  It applies to all genre of music. You have to create custom Pads that include the Pad Stopper on whatever Pads you want to stop playing in each registration. If you want to stop ALL Pads then just use the Pad Stopper file as is.



Joe H

[ton37]

Hi, it has not been a problem (to me). As @Lee B. and @Fred wrote, be creatieve and use Padstopper and/or Registration Mem. Besides there is a (sync) Start or Stop MP Button and even can one push Stop and Mem.x at the same time to stop one/two particular Multipad(s). What's the difference when you use any of the many buttons that are on your arranger. 

[elad770]

Ton37,
Because it requires a push of multiple buttons
Pushed simultaneously or right after each other
And I dont have the physical capability to do so.
If I want Pad 2,3 like the example to stay on in the middle of play I need to press the Registration button
(Which is my song flow) and then at the same time stop the pads 1,4 - Its impossible and that's why they made the Pad stopper my friend

[elad770]

Dromeus,

I can't express enough how much I agree with every word you said!

Dont get me wrong, I'm very thankful for the person who created the pad stopper and Gd bless him for his creativity
But why we need to make such an effort to work around
Such a radical problem. This is truly hinder
My ability to play expressively.  I'm not being hard or spoiled
But I dont think that every time we work around a problem that means that theres no problem.  There's a problem and its major. I really hope they will address it

[Joe H]

But I dont think that every time we work around a problem that means that theres no problem.  There's a problem and its major. I really hope they will address it

Why don't just call Yamaha and bitch to them and see where that gets you.  Making a lot of noise here and arguing serves no purpose.

Joe H

[Tri Ngo]

How about make the pad to the # of bars your need for the verse and stop the repeat.

[Dromeus]

Anyone who knows programming knows it would be difficult to write code for leaving Pad #4 running while stopping Pad #2 and start new Pads for #1 and #3.

Actually, no. The desired behaviour can be modeled as a simple finite state machine, which is easy to implement.

[elad770]

I always thought that this is easy to implement
Even without the software engineering backround.
And I simply do not understand Fred when he says
That any change in the current multipad behavior will affect
Other users. Why? What is it in the current situation that
Is so important to current users? Does he mean they will have to stop using the Pad stopper? Isnt that a good thing?

Plus, my issue is not even the multipad per say but the registration
The bells and whistles behind registration is that they are able to save ALL the setting on the bank, including whether you decided to have a specific multi pad or not. How is that any different then a style part of a voice assigned or desassigned to a registration?

[voodoo]

And I simply do not understand Fred when he says
That any change in the current multipad behavior will affect
Other users. Why? What is it in the current situation that
Is so important to current users? Does he mean they will have to stop using the Pad stopper? Isnt that a good thing?

No, the other way round is true. Now users rely on the fact that the multi pads keep on playing when calling another registration that has no multi pad saved. Now we have the choice, we can let them go on playing, or we can stop them using the pad stopper.

But after the change that you demand, the pads are always stopped. Then we have no choice. That would be bad for users the want the pads to play on. Let's say we have a registration that should only change the voices of the right keyboard parts. Why should this registration stop the multi pads?

Uli

[EileenL]

Why all the fuss surely it is easy enough to turn the pad you don't want off during a drum fill while going to the next registration.

[Lee Batchelor]

We're talking about automation here. There is almost an infinite number of combinations for having the Genos act how we want. I think all the posts in this thread have validity.

As a live player on stage (except for practicing at home), custom automation is essential. A software update would solve Elad's problem but so would Pad Stopper. Obviously, having a dedicated button for this purpose is easier than having to integrate third-party software. Elad wants to go the path of least resistance .

[DerekA]

Welcome to the world of legacy support.

Once a feature is implemented on a system, and has been there for a while, it's very difficult to change its behaviour without annoying a lot of people who have come to rely on the way it works, whether you agree or not.

That's why we usually end up adding new features to provide the alternative behaviour.

[Lee Batchelor]

Eileen is 100% correct, as usual, however, when you're playing live there is seldom time to look for a certain button or button combination to do a certain function. It's hard enough just getting the song right in front of people.

It's even worse when you need to hold one button and press another. Those buttons in question are on the "melody or right side" of the Genos. Using the right hand for that purpose can be an issue depending on the song and where in the song you need to "leave the keyboard keys" to press a few buttons. In the perfect world, we would set up our Genos on a per-song basis and just play the song through while not having to press any buttons.

[Lee Batchelor]

Once a feature is implemented on a system, and has been there for a while, it's very difficult to change its behavior without annoying a lot of people who have come to rely on the way it works, whether you agree or not.

And yet, software developers all over the world have no problem changing things right after everyone gets used to the existing features!! We no sooner learn a piece of software and then the updates start coming. These updates all too often cause users to smack their foreheads against the desk asking, "What did they do with the XYZ feature?? It was so handy. Now it's been moved, changed, or deleted!!!" Tell me you haven't experienced this all too often annoyance !

But we digress...

[Fred Smith]

Why all the fuss surely it is easy enough to turn the pad you don't want off during a drum fill while going to the next registration.

There are times when it's not all that easy, Eileen. That's why I use Padstopper. It does the job for me.

Cheers,
Fred

[Bob88]

  Perhaps I am missing the point but isn't possible to multi pad edit and remove the unwanted function  by deleting?   Bob