I just discovered this new mode on SX920.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvLF5aBXxRk&t=591s

The SMART CHORD...DGX670 was the first Yamaha keyboard to have this option.
Chord Type and Genre can be selected on my 3 year old DGX670.

Is it mandatory to only play 1 note with the left hand, or can I continue to play a C, with the usual C,E,G combination, and the engine computes and plays the associated richer C-based chord depending on the genre and the key ?

Because you select it under the fingering choices, you will not be able to simultaneously select multi finger and Smartchord. So I would think it's a one note chord system. That's reasonable because if you select multi finger you can play extended chords yourself anyway.

mikf is correct. If you play Smart chord as per fingered, it makes unwanted sound as you release each full chord.

It's design to be used set to single fingered.
Myself playing full fingered chords is part of playing enjoyment.

The Adaptive styles are of more interest as they auto move up the Style variations dependant on the pressure you play the keys.

One of the early Yamaha keyboards, (Think PSR-5700 ?) if you stopped playing the board would produce a improvisation of your last chord played. Pity Yammaha did not continue on later models.

I have mixed feelings about this feature. I realize that the arranger appeals to people who may not have the training and skills that years of practice and training brings. And that Yamaha has to try to sell against the competition by innovating. But advanced chording is one of those area which for a keyboard player is a real differentiator. It takes years of study, practice and experience to master.
When I gigged regularly with other pros, even many of them had little knowledge of advanced chording. It was a real differentiator for the better players. Sharpened 11ths, flattened 9ths, half diminished, tritone substitutions,2.5.1.turnarounds .....there's a whole different chord world out there and it's a major thing that makes the the really good players sound so much better. When I play piano people will often say I have nice touch, but they are wrong. My touch, especially nowadays when I hardly practice, is really pretty mediocre. What they are really hearing is richer than average harmony. Not just basic chords.
But now on the SX920 it seems anyone can sound that way with one finger, probably without any idea of the nature of the subtle and brilliant chords being played by the machine.
Hmmmm.......progress isn't always good.
Mike


PS ..If some of you are wondering what this chording is all about take a listen to this tutorial on playing 'Somewhere over the rainbow'in different ways.

 This concentrates on jazzy altered progressions, but there are also ways that players use different progressions for Latin Feel, or other genres. You may never progress to using these complex techniques, but it's still interesting to know it's all out there and how good players sound the way they do.

I understand and share your opinion. Where is the pleasure if everything is automated....
But at the same time, they show in the video that it is not possible to play some computed chords with one hand only ....

Globally, I think it can at least be a good tool to learn the associated theory and understand when the rich chords have to be played.

I play senior centers now and the piano players come in and just put the seniors to sleep. I have been told many times and have even seen it a couple of times myself. 

It is an arranger keyboard and not a piano. I rarely use the piano voice in my RIGHT hand at all.

In today's pop music the piano is a rhythm instrument in song arrangements and has pretty much been that way since the invention of the Guitar Amplifier.

If your cup of tea is Bach and Jazz then yep, you need the extra chords to cover that style.

I have a couple of real examples:

The original version of "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" and "Tennessee Waltz" are are both 3 chord songs.

I found an embellished chord version for both songs. The one for "Tennessee Waltz" people kept saying that it didn't sound like the "Tennessee Waltz". I used it for about a year at my gigs and then trashed it. 

The "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" chord version is the one Elvis Presley used and folks love that one and request it.

And yep, I play with the Single Finger mode always. 

Here is the way "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" is played in a FOURTH style. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr1KsIczJcs

Cheers
Drake


 

I personally like Martin Harris's results, and we can see in this video (look at the screen), he uses "complex" chords (and he spends time to explain what he does). But I understand that  the nuances these chords add are not to everyone's taste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNWFUhCgceQ

It doesn't have to be jazz or Bach to benefit from great harmony - it can be almost anything from Broadway,  The Great American Songbook, Cole Porter, Jerry Kern, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Lloyd Weber ..the list of great, well written songs is endless. And it's not about fancy harmony for the sake of it. I'm not a big fan of some of the extreme dissonance you hear from many jazz players.
Good harmony for me should just make it sound great, interesting, richer, fresh. And should never stray too far from the original, familiar song.
As for people in senior centers falling asleep listening to piano playing, — even some quite good players are just poor entertainers. It's horses for courses, I wouldn't play synth based rock in a Ritz Carlton lounge, or play sophisticated Lloyd Weber arrangements at a dance party. 
I was visiting someone in a senior facility, and they asked me to play their lovely grand piano. Within minutes the word shot round and the room filled. Far from falling asleep people were being roused from afternoon naps to come listen. They were singing along, requesting songs, some were up dancing. For a short time it made me miss gigging and think about going back to it - but with my wife's help I soon  got over it!  She was quite subtle and persuasive, —-  she said 'over my dead body'.

Mike

No DGX670 isn't the first one. They added this feature 20 years ago (I forgot which model; PSRk1 from 2003, I think?) basically in the E series; I didn't like it (for the same reason I don't really care for single finger chord, because I keep trying to play the actual chords) *but* if you treat it like a walking bassline, it does work, so I'm sure it'll help some beginners out.

Mark

Quote from: soundphase on May 30, 2025, 02:14 AMIs it mandatory to only play 1 note with the left hand, or can I continue to play a C, with the usual C,E,G combination, and the engine computes and plays the associated richer C-based chord depending on the genre and the key ?

When vamping on a friend's piano I often used octaves in the left-hand or added the 5th. I suppose using octaves would count as multi-fingered if using Smart Chords?

It seems to me rather ironic that there is some criticism of the Smart Chord feature found on some keyboards. One point of arranger keyboards with styles, built-in intros, variations and endings is to produce a whole sound – a band in a box, so to speak with the auto accompaniment taking care of the arrangement. Sure, we can use this as a basis only and modify the whole thing if we have the time or think it important, but the structure is there if we care to use it.

As someone who always plays multi-fingered and has sometimes used the left-hand for a bass pattern I don't see why Smart Chords is frowned upon as if it's somehow "cheating". It's just a step-up from AI or single-fingered chords. I don't know for certain, but single-fingered chords are played in root position- are they not? If so, then inversions and all of those subtle but beautiful chord voicings are lost. Maybe, it's not that important if most of a repertoire is the same genre and consists of 3 or 4 chords.

Recently it was seen as "cool" to purchase a professionally-made midi file, tweak it with software and post it on YouTube. I never did get an answer to just how much actual instrument playing was going on. So where's the real problem with Smart Chords?

For me, the arthritis in both hands can be frustrating at times. When I've been doing essential manual labour repairs on this old house I can now do about 20 minutes on the keyboard and then my fingers seize up. Smart Chords, not available on my Genos 2 would certainly be very interesting to try.

The Eva Cassidy version of Somewhere Over the Rainbow  I used to play using just  a solo acoustic guitar voice. The Smart Chord feature would show me how to use alternative voicings as I would create a midi and use that to print out some sheet music.

I come from a background of first learning drums before organ playing in a band and not piano playing. And then, living in London, 16 flute lessons from a young guy who played with the London Symphony and I was off playing folk and electric folk in a band.
Sometimes I wish I'd listened to my mother (a Grade 5 level pianist – Associated Board of Royal School of Music) and had lessons at 6 years old when she offered. Marriage to my father curtailed her musical progression. Had I taken music lessons I would have a piano in the house and maybe a Hammond B3.

Here's a video on how to do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvLF5aBXxRk

The link you kindly provided brings up the same video as that shown in the post by "soundphase" who started this thread. 

The problem with the Smart Chord mode is that unfortunately it does play incorrect chords. For example, I just played Aquarius on my SX920 and instead of playing an F major chord, it was playing FM7. Also, instead of playing a G minor chord, it plays G7 instead. Those chords of F major and G minor are there because the composer intended them to be there. Playing the incorrect chords just doesn't sound right.

However, Smart Chord does sometimes work correctly and when I played It's Not Unusual, the chords were correct the whole way through. So the level of correctness does depend on the piece you are playing.

Stuart

I imagine that to get Gmin you have to finger it as a minor. I never use single finger chords but think you have to do that even under single finger chording.
No matter how clever the algorithm, it might never be perfect and of course you still have to feed it reasonable data ...like I say about the minor chord. It cant just guess.
In the wider context, you make statements about correct and incorrect harmony. You have to understand that the whole concept of alternative harmony is to use the original composition only as a basic framework. Then you enhance the harmony. There is really no correct or incorrect in this, that is the latitude you have as a player and for example the Fmaj7 you mention is often a good alternative chord in many circumstances, even if a simple F is what is on the sheet music. In the key of C, I frequently replace the G7 chord with a Dmin7, or a Gb9. Or even with a whole different progression, changing a typical simple G7, C change to Dmin7,C#maj7,C.
Experienced players do this all the time, especially if they play multi note instruments like piano, keyboards or guitar where they are in control of the harmony. It's done to make it sound better, or fresher, or to fit into a particular styling like modern jazz, or Latin. Or sometimes just to be different. The original  composition and chord progression becomes just a basic framework on which you paint from your own palette.
 And it's not only the harmony you might alter, there's all the embellishment, frills, melody alterations, improvisations. But of course you still want it to sound good, and it takes a decent level of musical training and experience to achieve this. An algorithm might work some of the time .......but it's not going to compete with a competent musician,

Mike

Quote from: DrakeM on May 30, 2025, 08:42 AMIt is an arranger keyboard and not a piano. I rarely use the piano voice in my RIGHT hand at all.

In today's pop music the piano is a rhythm instrument in song arrangements and has pretty much been that way since the invention of the Guitar Amplifier.

I like posts like yours that make me think and question or have some generalisation that may or may not be true.
Martin Harris in a recent video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNWFUhCgceQ

demonstrated that the Genos 2 can be used very much as a piano - sure it's missing some keys but he played several bars from well-known classical pieces. Sounded ok to me. Maybe I don't have a discerning ear.

As you don't define "todays pop music" it might be difficult to argue your points. When people talk about 'today's music' I can only relate that to Spotify lists which like it or not, seems a good barometer of current trends. But if we take your other point about being used as a rhythm instrument since the invention of the guitar amplifier - that's up for debate. And my response is from memory and not Wikipedia.

The first commercial guitar amplifier was produced by a company (that became Rickebacker) in the 1930s. The reason for its introduction was to give some volume to jazz guitarists competing with other instruments like piano, bass, drums and sax.  Only in the 1950s that it really took off for what we might define as pop music.

There are plenty of examples of the piano as a central instrument -Adele; Elton John; Lady Gaga, Felix Capaldi; Bruce Hornsby; John Legend; Billy Joel; John Lennon - Imagine; Coldplay; Keane Somewhere Only We Know Yiruma River Flows In You etc etc and these are from my own memory as a former DJ -part-time.

Where we are in total agreement is the shift from piano to keyboards/synths from Fender Rhodes to Moog (two examples of many) rather than the lead guitar being dominant or with a keyboard sharing the space - lots of examples here - Supertramp for one.  And let's not forget Jimmy Smith on the Hammond B3 or Procul Harum's A Whiter Shade of Pale.  Of course there was a time when it was nothing but lead guitar breaks in popular music. I don't know enough about Country Music to know if this is true for that genre but the lead guitar solo has disappeared from "today's music". This post is already too long and it would take an essay to do the topic justice but thanks for sparking my interest.

TOP 20 KEYBOARD SOUND OF ALL TIME

Sam, you are spot on.
The modern TOTL arrangers make very good pianos especially the ones with more than 61 keys. The reason why they are not often used as pianos is a lot more about their owners ability than the quality of the arranger piano. The best arranger players can do everything, like Martin Harris. But average arranger players are quite limited and play one finger rh melody lines, and simple or even one finger chords. That just doesn't cut it in real piano playing. So they seldom use it. There a huge difference between using a piano voice in your rh on an arranger and really 'playing piano'.
Pianos are still a much used instrument in popular music. Especially in playing standards, and particularly good as a solo instrument or for accompanying good vocalists in the Tony Bennett mould. Neil Sedaka used to give whole concerts of his music with only himself on piano, and drummer and bass player.
Drake really only plays country music, which is guitar dominated, but is probably not the most common choice of genre among arranger players.
Mike

Quote from: mikf on Jun 03, 2025, 10:34 AM''''' Drake really only plays country music, which is guitar dominated, but is probably not the most common choice of genre among arranger players.

To be fair he did have a crack at a Glen Miller tune recently. Incidentally, it was Country and Western music, even in the 1930s that used a guitar amplifier made by Gibson for pedal steel guitar. And in Rickenbacker's guitar and amp combination, the guitar was called the "Frying Pan" due to its shape.

Martin Harris is the perfect demonstrator for arranger keyboards. He's been with Yamaha for 32 years so he is worth listening to both musically and for instruction on how to get the best out of the keyboards. He is also heavily involved in the developmental process for Yamaha, so you can almost guarantee that he's been responsible for some of the innovations favoured by performers.  He also talks about sampling a "Shimi" piano  (does he mean Schimmel?) and steel drums in Germany.

In this video



Martin is playing to a very warm and receptive German audience who give him a glass of lager – the first in 32 years of demonstrating he says!  Little gestures like this can go a long way when we are performing.

08.23 he plays several bars of a piano piece  - Chopin' Walz No. 7 in C-Sharp minor Op.64 No.2 [thanks Shazam] with the Genos 2 voice set to CFX Concert Grand piano, followed by Danny Boy and Drowned Cathedral (?). Taking all your comments into consideration, people reading this and actively* watching the video should judge for themselves if arranger keyboards can be used as a piano.

18.28 there is an audience question about which keyboard mode he is using. He replies that it's AI Fingered so he can trigger a different bass pattern from his left-hand chords. And when the young lady controlling the visuals shows his Home Screen, you can see the rapid chord progressions using some of the (jazz) chord voicings we have been discussing here.

56.35 he really shows the range of keyboard sounds from synths to piano with Toto's Rosanna – brilliant rendition, played on the fly using the built-in styles without modification and ending with a piano solo. Martin is revelling in the Genos guitar sounds. One minor gripe about Martin's brilliant playing is that with woodwind/brass instruments he often plays the sound as a keyboardist not pausing to take a breath as a sax or Duduk player would do - I've been guilty of this too.

1: 00.00 - hour mark,  Martin plays Eric Clapton's Lay Down Sally, what I would call Country Rock, using the Skiffle style. I had the style on my old Tyros 2  and it was a song I used to play and not dissimilar to this version with Vince Gill,  Albert Lee, James Burton, Sheryl Crow and other artists.  Wish I'd have been there in 2010, these guys really seem to be enjoying themselves playing together at Crossroads. Plenty of Fender guitars and amplifiers around and a Yamaha Motif..



* For Active viewing I watch with a pen and paper and rewind to ensure I've understood.

The section where he uses piano in many different ways shows how good piano music is when done properly. His ballad version of Danny Boy is excellent, jam packed with all kinds of great harmony. Of course you could play Danny Boy with about 4 simple chords and a simple melody line - and it might be recognizable,  - but it wouldn't be showstopping.
All of the pieces he plays in this 'piano section' demonstrate how important innovative harmony is to good piano playing. Without it, it becomes ordinary, even boring and maybe it does put people to sleep!
 But when properly done, piano playing is classy and seductive.
 People are always posting about the quality of piano voices on arrangers, but it should be clear to everyone that the voices are actually very good.  Of course we might say they can't compete in feel and sound with a well maintained quality grand, but  in my days of playing pro piano, I had to play whatever piano they had, and they were typically way worse than these arrangers.
BTW, Martin does say Schimmel, it's the sub text that wrongly interprets it as Schimi.
Mike

Quote from: mikf on Jun 04, 2025, 06:58 AM...  BTW, Martin does say Schimmel, it's the sub text that wrongly interprets it as Schimi.
Mike

Thanks, you are right. I did have the transcript on at that time with that error.

As for putting people to sleep, it can also depend on the time of the session. When speaking at conferences I insisted on a morning slot or mid-afternoon slot. The immediately after-lunch or dinner sessions were the worst ( especially at some conferences when the bar was open) - we referred to it as the "graveyard slot".