Genos2 vs Korg Pa5X

[GrantB]

I have a Korg Pa5x61 and the Genos 2, and here is my honest opinion regarding some of the features they each have.

Genos 2 comes out of the box almost completely set up and ready to play apart from setting your split and the types of chords you play, and the manual supplied covers these very well. In less than ten minutes I was up and running playing the songs I like that were in the Playlist. The manual is 140 pages.

if you are new to the Korg Pa5X keyboard and want to play from out of the box it is necessary to read the manual carefully, as it has 1,654 pages (with colour illustrations) which is excellent and far more detailed than the Genos 2. It took me at least two hours before I was able to play a decent song.  The Songbook had a few recognizable songs that were already set up ready to play.
The touch screen on Genos2 for me needs improvement, not the brightness which does not bother me, but I must touch the screen harder than I like to get to where I want to go. I find that typing in song titles takes longer than necessary especially having to type 3 times to get a capital letter then come out of it. The Pa5x has a much better tactile screen that is a joy to use, all be it is a fraction smaller.  Once you type a capitol letter it automatically reverts to smaller case unless you have set it for capitals and I would go as far to say that everything looks clearer, but then again that might be just my eyes.

Effects:
Obviously, you'd expect there to be different information/functions etc. provided via the touch screen and without a doubt the Pa5x comes way out on top for me. Not that there is anything wrong with the Genos 2 as it displays what it is capable of. The real difference here is that for me the Pa5X is a thoroughbred arranger more suited for professional keyboard players who like to customise the sounds that are produced by this keyboard. It also features the Waves Audio ensuring fantastic audio output. Whereas the Genos2 inhibits your capabilities somewhat, while it has a reasonable effects section, it does come close to what you can do with the Pax5 in this respect. Don't get me wrong here, both have excellent sounds and styles. I should point out that the reference manual for the Genos is 172 pages while the Pa5x reference manual has 1,402, which kind of proves what I am trying to say here.

Songbook vs Playlist:
When I first took possession on the Pa5X I was totally impressed with the Songbook feature where Titles of songs bring up your 'registrations'. It is an easy feature to use with different methods of inputting the information you require. There is also a Genre Category including Ballads (sadly lacking in Genos2) already setup and it is very easy to add your own Genre if you wish for instant call up. Titles are in alphabetical order in both sections and so easy to find.  You can also change the size of the text if you want. Whilst the Playlist feature has been improved since Genos first arrived on the scene 6 years ago, I still feel it rather cumbersome to use and feel it could be better explained within the manual and the reference guide.

Chord Sequencer vs Chord Looper:
Whilst the two new buttons on the Genos2 are welcome I much prefer the Chord Sequencer as it has much more in-depth functionality which is clearly explained in both the reference and manual.
There are of course many more difference between the two keyboards, but price wise the Pa5X 61 is now at least ££2,000 cheaper than the Genos2 in most music shops it is definitely a good buy.

In summation, both keyboards are great instruments, and of course from two musical manufactures you'd expect differences. I like both keyboards but use the Genos2 for playing in my home (weight and size being a problem for travelling) and the Pa5X for gigging. However, I do enjoy playing both keyboards, and will continue to do so over the ensuing years, but in different settings. 
   

[EileenL]

Thank you Grant for your explanation of these two flagship models which was written
in a very fair way. I have had Korg keyboards in the past and did find the operating
System much more complicated although I did get used to it but did not like certain things that I found much easier to do on Yamaha at the time. No doubt they have improved since then.

[Graham UK]

GrantB  Nice honest review from the owner of both Genos2 & Korg Pa5X

[valimaties]

I also have PA5X-76 and Genos1. And I have to say that Genos1 is STILL my main keyboard, even PA5X have more than Genos1 has. I love my Yamaha sound and right now I use Korg only for some genres which does not sound so good on Yamaha. It's my opinion during years of trying making it sounds in the same way as Korg, but I couldn't do it. With the same samples and same style made it for Yamaha, they don't sounds as good as in Korg. More than that, how the fills operate in Korg is different than how works in Yamaha, and I cannot make them to be used like in Korg. For those which does not know what I'm telling here, they could read in the Korg's manuals, it is a lot of writing about.

Summarizing, I think Yamaha will remain my main keyboard in the next years, even if it is hard to carry both to parties  (As you can see in my signature's picture) Who knows, maybe G1 will be changed with a Genos 3 in the future, depending on what improvements will be on that model and if it worth the change. Right now, definitelly for me G2 is not a replacement for my G1!

Regards,
Vali

[Oldden]

I've been a Yamaha fan for years, always changed my keyboard only  when something very different came out. From PSR 3000 to Tyros, then Genos 1. Sorry but Genos 2 does not do it for me , it's too much of the same. I enjoy learning about and playing on something different.Thinking of updating next year , looks like being a Korg.

[cyber swine]

 I use Korg only for some genres which does not sound so good on Yamaha.
Regards,
Vali
[/quote]

For me, with my limited experience owning both Genos and PA5 this sums up the whole sound thing.  Some songs or styles simply sound better on one more than on the other.  Personally I prefer the touch, feel and sight of the Korg but know that some sounds on the Yamaha just can't be beat!

[GrantB]

I as not knocking Yamaha, only saying that both keyboards are excellent in what they produce and obviously there are some major differences between them as one would expect from two manufacturers.

I started with Tyros and worked my way up, only skipping one model and exchanged my Genos for the Genos 2. The Korg Pa5x for me is ideal for gigs due to its size and of course it's performance. If Yamaha every came out with a 61 keyboard then I would be happy to take it on the road with me.

I wish all music lovers a Happy Christmas & a Prosperous 2024

Grant   

[Danny1972]

Both are excellent, no doubt about that. I see that many own both, and I think if that is your set up, then you have absolutely everything covered for the rest of time! They both absolutely compliment each other.

[orangeman]

The touch screen on Genos2 for me needs improvement, not the brightness which does not bother me, but I must touch the screen harder than I like to get to where I want to go. I find that typing in song titles takes longer than necessary especially having to type 3 times to get a capital letter then come out of it.

Great comparison, Grant, thank you. I returned my Genos2, because I decided to stick with my PSR-SX900. But I experienced this same thing of having to touch the screen 3 times for everything, such as selecting sounds or styles. I presumed that I must have gotten a bad screen, and should I decide to purchase the Genos2 in the future, it wouldn't have this problem. But now I see that others are experiencing the same thing. I haven't seen anyone mention it on this forum.

I hope this isn't widespread. I never had it on my PSR-SX900.

[Gunnar Jonny]

Hi.

I'm not sure, but deep in my mind I seem to remember that the touch response could be adjusted?
My remembering might as well be for another unit, so I took a look in the manual:

At page 163 Genos2 Reference Manual it says:
Calibration
For calibrating the display when it does not respond properly to your touch. (Normally, this
need not be set, since it is calibrated by factory default.) Touch here to call up the Calibration
display, and then touch the center of the plus marks (+) in order.

Who knows, but maybe it is for any help to solve the touch problem?

EDIT: Added correct manual info

[EileenL]

Yes you must Calibrate the screen for your own use. it makes a big difference.

[GrantB]

Hi Guys,

I'd love to calibrate the screen but my manual does not go up to page 168!!

Any further information would be welcome

Cheers

Grant

[RoyB]

It's Page 163 in the Genos2 REFERENCE manual (not the owners manual).

Roy

[GrantB]

Okay, using the calibration with a touch pen very lightly had indeed helped the touch screen.

I'm so pleased I mentioned it.

Thanks all

Merry Xmas

Grant

[orangeman]

I calibrated the screen with no improvement but didn't think to touch it super lightly with a pen. Glad that sounds like a solution.

[AndrewKeyz]

When I first took possession on the Pa5X I was totally impressed with the Songbook feature where Titles of songs bring up your 'registrations'. It is an easy feature to use with different methods of inputting the information you require.

This was totally not my experience.

In fact as soon as I found out the Pa5X does not use registrations in the same vein as the superior Yamaha keyboards its usability to me was severely diminished to the point I think a cheaper SX900 is more useable than any PA keyboard.

[Akki]

This was totally not my experience.

In fact as soon as I found out the Pa5X does not use registrations in the same vein as the superior Yamaha keyboards its usability to me was severely diminished to the point I think a cheaper SX900 is more useable than any PA keyboard.

That is totally understandable. I think mainly it's because of habits and workflow you used to.
I just switched to Yamaha , and am having trouble getting used to Regs.... But after I believe 2 months or so I'm getting used to it slowly.

[BogdanH]

hello,
About usage of registrations...

...I think mainly it's because of habits and workflow you used to.

I rarely use registrations. But because:
1. we only have four variations in style,
2. in style, we cannot define variations execution sequence (which is needed because of point 1)
-and so, there are many cases (songs) where the usage of registrations is the only solution. Without registrations, it is impossible to play certain songs as they originally are. That is, we would need to simplify songs.
What I'm saying is, using registrations is not only a habit: it's a need.
Ok, registrations don't really eliminate the need for more than four variations, but is still a solution in many cases.

Now, Korg doesn't have registrations and my question is: is there something similar? How do Korg owners solve the problem if song requires more than four variations?
I'm interested on general answer (not step-by-step instructions).

Bogdan

[ton37]

Hi Bogdan, a response to your question:: I was also a bit curious at the time. Maybe this makes it a little clearer?
On Korg Forums: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=130080 

[BogdanH]

hi Ton
Thank you for the link (I also watched the video mentioned there). I wanted a general answer.. and I got it.. sort of   

I'm sure that there's a way to accomplish what we want, by using different methods than on Yamaha. It's probably the way of thinking that one needs to adapt to -if coming from Yamaha. Those who started with Korg, would probably say "it's a piece of cake"

Greetings,
Bogdan

[robinez]

hi Ton
Thank you for the link (I also watched the video mentioned there). I wanted a general answer.. and I got it.. sort of   

I'm sure that there's a way to accomplish what we want, by using different methods than on Yamaha. It's probably the way of thinking that one needs to adapt to -if coming from Yamaha. Those who started with Korg, would probably say "it's a piece of cake"

The yamaha registrations feature is great and very easy to use by anyone if you want to have predefined setups.

Korg can do it too but in a different way and the system is way more open than on the genos, but that also means that it demands more of the player during the performance. Let me give a few examples:

- setup mute elements in different variations
on the yamaha you select the variations and mute the channels and then store it to a registration slot.
on the korg you don't have to do this, just select the variation and set the 16 pads to matrix preset 4 and now you can mute elements in realtime (even solo them) with just pressing one or multiple of the matrix buttons. When you are used to this, it's absolutely fantastic during your performance because you have full control without having to predefine them, just go with the flow and it works

- select different sounds.
on the yamaha you have 4 OTS slots so to get predefined sets of sounds you can use the registration memory for that.
on the korg this is different, there you have 4 keyboard sets and you have access to 11 favorite setups for your songs. So 4 specific keyboard sets and 11 favorites per song entry, which makes up a total of 15 * 4 sounds per song (60 sounds). If that is not enough you can change the 4 sets to different ones and store that as a separate song entry, in the setlists you can assign unlimited song entries, so let's say that you need 1000 sounds for a song (theoretical, want nobody does that), but the setlist entry allows you to do this in realtime without stopping the song and with Seamless Sound Transition (which the genos doesn't have).

- select different pads
on the yamaha you can store your 4 pads to a registration
on the korg you can store 4 pads to a song (also the setlists entry feature as mentioned above makes this unlimited), but per song entry you can also have access to 48 extra pads to use through the matrix pads. (groups of 4* 4 * 3), so you have 12 extra pads for pad 1, 12 extra pads for pad 2, etc...

- chord sequences
on the yamaha you can add a chord sequence to registration
on the korg you can add a chord sequence to a song entry and setlist entry (unlimited chord sequences this way per song)

So basically I could explain this for every entry in the memory registration feature of the genos, but in general, most things can be accessed directly on the pa5x, where there is a setup needed (like on the registrations), then you create a songbook entry and add it to a setlist to change them at will.

The yamaha genos registrations are much more easier to use because you set it up upfront, the pa5x can do a lot more, but requires more control and skill from the player to get the same level of changes as on the genos.

So it more like a preference than something like missing features on both top of the line keyboards. I use both methods on my genos and pa5x and I like both methods.

[BogdanH]

@robinez
Thank you for explaining, which helps me to get the correct impression. From what you described, I can also better understand why some say that Korg is (or can be) a better choice for live performance... because it allows more improvisations while playing. With Yamaha however, the song is actually (pre)defined with registrations -it's final, so to speak.
...at least that's how I understand this 

Greetings,
Bogdan

[ton37]

@robinez
Thank you for explaining, which helps me to get the correct impression. From what you described, I can also better understand why some say that Korg is (or can be) a better choice for live performance... because it allows more improvisations while playing. With Yamaha however, the song is actually (pre)defined with registrations -it's final, so to speak.
...at least that's how I understand this 

Greetings,
Bogdan

I prefer the explanation of @robinez, your conclusion is not mine 🤔

[EileenL]

Registrations are very versatile on Yamaha keyboard and do not have to be song specific at all. You can also change voices and things on the fly if that is how you like to play. Many professionals do this.

[Akki]

So it more like a preference than something like missing features on both top of the line keyboards. I use both methods on my genos and pa5x and I like both methods.

Great explanation rob. 🍻❤️

From what you described, I can also better understand why some say that Korg is (or can be) a better choice for live performance... because it allows more improvisations while playing.

I still think so if you ask me. Iv been using Yamaha for several months only , maybe that's why, but I still struggle finding a proper setup for myself...🤷😂🍻
We shall see, I'll give Yammy several more months to try to adopt. 😋

[Amwilburn]

Registrations go further; Bogdan wants more than 4 style variations per song (as do I, actually) but my workaround is chaining registrations with *two* different styles for the same song (as long as the 2 styles are in the same folder, it's essentially instantaneous). I've done this a lot on my youtube videos; my Pirates of the Caribbean medley uses 4 styles, only 1 of which is preset.

People keep comparing Korg playlists, and yes, I can get up to 15 (?) registrations I think for 1 song, but I need to press a button, and I can't chain the order sequence via pedal, which I need to do; most of my registrations go through 40-60 changes (usually over 3 to 5 banks); a *lot* of going back and forth between 2 so quickly that it's impossible by hand. *but* most people won't need that; pretty much just those who grew up with Electone, like myself.

If you're not going to *that* level of complexity, then you don't *need* registrations. But if you have back and forth switching multiple times within a single bar, and if you need to simulate more than 4 style variations (the most I did for 1 song was 12, not even 8 variations) then there is no alternative (yet).

On the other hand, for just playing popular music out of the box? The PA5x is *great*.

Depends on your needs; it's been 1.5 years since launch and I still can't install the Middle Eastern packs (that I got from Pa3x) into the PA5x (worked on the PA4x) and there are *still* no packs (readily available) from other countries except India. Genos 2 has been out 1 month (actually less than a month in Canada, but slightly more in Europe) and not including all the old ppf packs that already work, there are already 10-20 (not all of the 2nd set of expansion packs actually works yet on G2) expansion packs that work on G2.

Mark

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi, Happy New Year to All

Well, if it stops raining!!



The only thing on Genos with registrations is if you go from a heavy sound on the left to a quiet registration you can get a bleed over especially pads.
The way around it is to knock the left out before changing to be sure.
The thing with arrangers is that each song demands a different pattern of hand movements and with playing and reaching out for buttons, it can be quite a task. I do think the footpedal saves a lot of button bashing though.
I still think that the Genos has a more rounded sound than the PAX5


All  The Best
John

[BogdanH]

Hi Mark,

...
People keep comparing Korg playlists, and yes, I can get up to 15 (?) registrations I think for 1 song, but I need to press a button, and I can't chain the order sequence via pedal, which I need to do.
...

Thank you for pointing on that! -this are the details that I had in my mind when I was asking about registrations alternative on Korg.
Having the possibility to define registration sequence and switch it with pedal is essential -it's an extension of the style actually.

So Korg doesn't have that option.. is this a deal breaker? Well, it can be (as long there's only four variations limit in style).
I saw some musicians on Youtube who are capable to press buttons on panel extremely quickly while playing. I'm not one of them: I prefer to play relaxed by switching with pedal.

Bogdan

[keithvenn]

I have also had both keyboards and although the styles and sound seemed better on the PA5X, there were not sufficient styles to suit the type of music I play.

There are many more Yamaha styles, including ones for previous Yamaha models, that suit may needs. I should add that quote a few don't sound good on the Genos 2, due to the drums.

[Amwilburn]

Hi Mark,
Thank you for pointing on that! -this are the details that I had in my mind when I was asking about registrations alternative on Korg.
Having the possibility to define registration sequence and switch it with pedal is essential -it's an extension of the style actually.

So Korg doesn't have that option.. is this a deal breaker? Well, it can be (as long there's only four variations limit in style).
I saw some musicians on Youtube who are capable to press buttons on panel extremely quickly while playing. I'm not one of them: I prefer to play relaxed by switching with pedal.

Bogdan

Exactly this. If you watch my Back to the Future , Indian Jones,r Superman, James Bond or Star Wars throne room videos, you'll notice parts where I'm holding a brass/ horn sound, then switching sound to a flutter run (usually flute, or flute + strings, but in James bond it's the electric guitar) and it's not *possible* for me to hit another button to change registrations as all fingers are already occupied with notes. So I *have* to do sequential registration changes via pedal. Unless I had a 2nd person standing to the side constantly pressing "next" for me.

Look at the 37 second mark of this Raiders March video I did: (and if you're wondering why I didn't just make the flute on the left split, I still needed to 'check in' with the bass note every bar)
https://youtu.be/4GqrFFM_I0g?si=TiaRgG8xZTzBQFNg&t=37

Or Back to the future, listen for the orchestal hit/ chromatic percussion spaced quickly between the brass. That's a back and forth registration. Not possible on any other platform (yet?).
https://youtu.be/i-UBkmhTW9c?si=PnbWmSWy9WJC6MRk&t=30

Cheers,

And Happy New Year everyone!
Mark