Do You Know of Another Keyboard with the Genos Sounds?

[pjd]

As to alternatives with natural, acoustic voices, that's one of my "things." I do liturgical music and need good woodwinds (flute, oboe, etc.), strings, classical and B-3 organs, and so forth.

I play MODX at my church gig since it is quite portable. Genos is for practice at home and recording demos for the group. And, other fun.

The Montage/MODX synths and the arrangers share a lot of basic waveforms (samples) although the voice programming is different. I like the intuitive gestural behavior of SArt and SArt2 voices. Montage/MODX does not have that, favoring articulation buttons to manual invoke articulations.

To Genos or not to Genos hinges on the absolute need for SArt2 voices. Only Genos has them.

As to keyboard actions, I have tried Montage M8x (GEX). GEX made my hands tired and certain gestures (palm swipes) weren't good for me. Could be OK for someone else, but it's a personal thing. I've played a zillion keyboards lately and kissed a lot of frogs.  Keyboard action is so utterly personal!

One alternative suggestion that I didn't see -- CP73 from Yamaha's Stage keyboard product line. It is a lighter alternative to the NW (Natural Wood) action in the CP88. The Stage CP keyboards have excellent pianos and master controller capabilities. The Stage CP have a smattering of voices, probably lifted from the arranger keyboard line. Maybe start out with a Stage CP and eventually MIDI it to an arranger?

Just some thoughts -- pj

[GrannyRocks]

As to alternatives with natural, acoustic voices, that's one of my "things." I do liturgical music and need good woodwinds (flute, oboe, etc.), strings, Classical and B-3 organs, and so forth.

I play MODX at my church gig since it is quite portable. Genos is for practice at home and recording demos for the group. And, other fun.

The Montage/MODX synths and the arrangers share a lot of basic waveforms (samples) although the voice programming is different. I like the intuitive gestural behavior of SArt and SArt2 voices. Montage/MODX does not have that, favoring articulation buttons to manual invoke articulations.

To Genos or not to Genos hinges on the absolute need for SArt2 voices. Only Genos has them.

As to keyboard actions, I have tried Montage M8x (GEX). GEX made my hands tired and certain gestures (palm swipes) weren't good for me. Could be OK for someone else, but it's a personal thing. I've played a zillion keyboards lately and kissed a lot of frogs.  Keyboard action is so utterly personal!

One alternative suggestion that I didn't see -- CP73 from Yamaha's Stage keyboard product line. It is a lighter alternative to the NW (Natural Wood) action in the CP88. The Stage CP keyboards have excellent pianos and master controller capabilities. The Stage CP have a smattering of voices, probably lifted from the arranger keyboard line. Maybe start out with a Stage CP and eventually MIDI it to an arranger?

Just some thoughts -- pj

I love this. I too have kissed many frogs -- may 20 -30 keyboards that I've actually bought, tried, returned, sold. Okay, you are SO right about the SArt2 voices. I LOVE those. And now I know that only Genos has that, so I can avoid wasting time looking for them. Was the GEX a heavy action or are you just not comfortable with any weighted keys, even on a piano? Since there aren't any around to try, I'd love to know. Otherwise, the sound quality is fairly similar to G2 but no SArt? I'll look at the Stage CP. Does it have the great sounds of the Genos without the SArt? I can live without the arranger part. Or are they only in the ModX. Thanks for being there.


Edit by overover: Removed duplicate quoted text

[pjd]

That's interesting. I do like the option of being able to turn it on. At least I'm not crazy. Grin. If I turn it off in one registration and save and turn it off in a second registration, it still seems to turn itself on when I go to registration 2. Have you had that experience? Thanks so much.

Hi Beth --

The StartUp registration idea is simply to put the keyboard into a known state immediately after turning on the power.

Afterward, I load up one of several registration banks, each bank contain 10 different registrations. How one uses the banks and the buttons within a bank is personal style. BTW, you can have as many registration banks as you want!

Some people use one registration bank per song. That lets them jump between 10 different four voice combinations (i.e., LEFT, RIGHT1, RIGHT2, RIGHT3) in a given song. So, to switch to a different combination of voices, they just hit a button.

Another example is my co-called "Church" registration bank. Each button selects a group of voices, e.g., button 1: Woodwind ensemble, button 2: Strings, button 3: Horn ensemble, button 4: Flute ensemble, etc. These select the voice combo that I use on a tune; maybe change the combo while I'm playing.

I've got 40+ registration banks -- some for playing songs (with backing tracks), some for church (practice without any accompaniment).

This is just one person's approach; the trick is finding the approach that works best for you.

Hope this helps -- pj

P.S. Gotta go cook dinner. Probably won't be back until tomorrow. 

[GrannyRocks]

Hi Beth --

The StartUp registration idea is simply to put the keyboard into a known state immediately after turning on the power.

Afterward, I load up one of several registration banks, each bank contain 10 different registrations. How one uses the banks and the buttons within a bank is personal style. BTW, you can have as many registration banks as you want!

Some people use one registration bank per song. That lets them jump between 10 different four voice combinations (i.e., LEFT, RIGHT1, RIGHT2, RIGHT3) in a given song. So, to switch to a different combination of voices, they just hit a button.

Another example is my co-called "Church" registration bank. Each button selects a group of voices, e.g., button 1: Woodwind ensemble, button 2: Strings, button 3: Horn ensemble, button 4: Flute ensemble, etc. These select the voice combo that I use on a tune; maybe change the combo while I'm playing.

I've got 40+ registration banks -- some for playing songs (with backing tracks), some for church (practice without any accompaniment).

This is just one person's approach; the trick is finding the approach that works best for you.

Hope this helps -- pj

P.S. Gotta go cook dinner. Probably won't be back until tomorrow. 

Very helpful. Thanks. Have a great dinner. I'm too disabled to cook, but thank God for my husband.

[Christophermoment]

If you push the button for playing with backing, you are creating a registration with 4 voices and then you can switch to the registration of the other 4 voices, but you can't access any more than that? Or am I not understanding this? Thanks.

Hi Beth, I still don't think you grasp the use of Registrations. 
I did post a link in one of your other posts so you can see what is possible with registrations but I don't think you got around to watching it. Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImTZ4A4Blps

This shows what you can use the Registrations for, this was recorded in one take, played live on a Tyros 4. It used 14 registrations, notice how there are no glitches, and multiple Voices and Styles and Multi-Pads are used. You can see in the bottom left hand side of the screen how the Registrations and Voicing changes.
Basically you set up your keyboard with voice, style, multi-pad you want to use. Set up the mixer for all, then save in the Registration 1. Then set your next Registration with the voices, styles and multi-pads you want. You can change some or all, choice is yours, then save to Registration 2. You can fill up all 10 Registrations and even start another bank if you need/want. Then when you are out on a gig all you have to change with a footswitch are your Registrations. No need to push other buttons or sliders, just play the keys. 
This way the suggestion from Amwilburn to use a midi keyboard to play, with it triggering the Genos voices would work. Probably the only way to have the amazing voicing of the Genos that you like so much. I know this was long winded, but hope it helps. And check out the video, it might not be the type of music you like to listen to but it does demonstrate a lot of Registrations uses. 

[GrannyRocks]

Hi Beth, I still don't think you grasp the use of Registrations. 
I did post a link in one of your other posts so you can see what is possible with registrations but I don't think you got around to watching it. Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImTZ4A4Blps

This shows what you can use the Registrations for, this was recorded in one take, played live on a Tyros 4. It used 14 registrations, notice how there are no glitches, and multiple Voices and Styles and Multi-Pads are used. You can see in the bottom left hand side of the screen how the Registrations and Voicing changes.
Basically you set up your keyboard with voice, style, multi-pad you want to use. Set up the mixer for all, then save in the Registration 1. Then set your next Registration with the voices, styles and multi-pads you want. You can change some or all, choice is yours, then save to Registration 2. You can fill up all 10 Registrations and even start another bank if you need/want. Then when you are out on a gig all you have to change with a footswitch are your Registrations. No need to push other buttons or sliders, just play the keys. 
This way the suggestion from Amwilburn to use a midi keyboard to play, with it triggering the Genos voices would work. Probably the only way to have the amazing voicing of the Genos that you like so much. I know this was long winded, but hope it helps. And check out the video, it might not be the type of music you like to listen to but it does demonstrate a lot of Registrations uses. 

I am sorry. I must have missed that video. I will watch it now.

[GrannyRocks]

Hi Beth, I still don't think you grasp the use of Registrations. 
I did post a link in one of your other posts so you can see what is possible with registrations but I don't think you got around to watching it. Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImTZ4A4Blps

This shows what you can use the Registrations for, this was recorded in one take, played live on a Tyros 4. It used 14 registrations, notice how there are no glitches, and multiple Voices and Styles and Multi-Pads are used. You can see in the bottom left hand side of the screen how the Registrations and Voicing changes.
Basically you set up your keyboard with voice, style, multi-pad you want to use. Set up the mixer for all, then save in the Registration 1. Then set your next Registration with the voices, styles and multi-pads you want. You can change some or all, choice is yours, then save to Registration 2. You can fill up all 10 Registrations and even start another bank if you need/want. Then when you are out on a gig all you have to change with a footswitch are your Registrations. No need to push other buttons or sliders, just play the keys. 
This way the suggestion from Amwilburn to use a midi keyboard to play, with it triggering the Genos voices would work. Probably the only way to have the amazing voicing of the Genos that you like so much. I know this was long winded, but hope it helps. And check out the video, it might not be the type of music you like to listen to but it does demonstrate a lot of Registrations uses. 

Wow, that's amazing. How did you get no interruptions/glitches between registrations?

[Christophermoment]

Wow, that's amazing. How did you get no interruptions/glitches between registrations?

Judicious use of voicing and lots of planning. 
One of the benefits of having hundreds of voices to choose from is that a lot of them use the same or similar effects, and they are not used heavy handed. These voices will not glitch if used, sometimes you might have to adjust a really tiny amount, but this is rare. If you are using strings and the effects are to heavy for the change, check out some of the alternatives. You really don't need to use all 3 voice parts at the same time, so if you need to change voices and the effects are extreme, use 1 & 3 or 2 & 1 or 3 & 2. Leave the voice in say part 1 but when you change registrations don't have that voice selected to sound. Let the effects play out naturally while you are playing selected parts 2 & 3. Plan ahead and if you have an empty slot then load it up with a changed voice that you will use later. Just play around with combinations to avoid conflict. If you must use 3 voice parts at once check out all the voices that do not have extreme effects applied. Go to Pads for instance and select the first voice, then demo the voice and while it is playing select another Pad. Notice how some jump and others don't. What is neat with some voices that don't jump is that you keep the key pressed and the voice will continue to sound, and will only change to the next selected voice when the key is retriggered. Only works on a few but can be useful.
Hope some of this makes sense. 

[GrannyRocks]

Judicious use of voicing and lots of planning. 
One of the benefits of having hundreds of voices to choose from is that a lot of them use the same or similar effects, and they are not used heavy handed. These voices will not glitch if used, sometimes you might have to adjust a really tiny amount, but this is rare. If you are using strings and the effects are to heavy for the change, check out some of the alternatives. You really don't need to use all 3 voice parts at the same time, so if you need to change voices and the effects are extreme, use 1 & 3 or 2 & 1 or 3 & 2. Leave the voice in say part 1 but when you change registrations don't have that voice selected to sound. Let the effects play out naturally while you are playing selected parts 2 & 3. Plan ahead and if you have an empty slot then load it up with a changed voice that you will use later. Just play around with combinations to avoid conflict. If you must use 3 voice parts at once check out all the voices that do not have extreme effects applied. Go to Pads for instance and select the first voice, then demo the voice and while it is playing select another Pad. Notice how some jump and others don't. What is neat with some voices that don't jump is that you keep the key pressed and the voice will continue to sound, and will only change to the next selected voice when the key is retriggered. Only works on a few but can be useful.
Hope some of this makes sense. 

It makes sense in theory. I guess I'll have to test out voices to see which don't jump. When I hold down the voice of one and select the other, that works. But so far, my crude reg to reg is pretty glitchy. Anyway, some progress was made today. I finally got the pedal to do Registration sequencing, which saves my arms. Now if that synch start will stay off. Grin. Someone mentioned a start-up registration and I could have two. I'll have to tackle that at another point.

[GrannyRocks]

Another suggestion that you'll often see on the Forum is to create a group (bank) of registration buttons solely for initial keyboard set up.

My set-up bank is called "StartUp". It has two buttons: "PlayingWithStyle" and "PlayingWithBacking". These buttons establish the keyboard settings that I like to use when playing with auto-accompaniment and with backing tracks, respectively. It took a while to get everything the way I wanted.

The set ups also form the basis for 99% of my song-specific registrations. They are like the Adam and Eve of everything else. So, once you get one or two standard set-ups, you will be able to build up and out. 

All the best -- pj

Yeah, with two pedals, I'm getting the hang of it. Thank you.

[GrannyRocks]

Thank you everyone for all the help. I think I'll be able to manage with the Genos2 with the pedals and registration. Less pushing buttons. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[SingerSongwriter]

I wanted to mention that I know exactly what you mean about an action that is painful, but for me it's not the Genos, it was my old Nord Electro 73. To me the Genos has a wonderful soft action and I can play it for hours. I usually play standing up, for what it's worth. I also have a regular Yamaha grand piano and that action is also pleasing to me. As others have mentioned, the angle and height of the keyboard are critical to comfort. And technique-wise, you might look into the Taubman Method for piano, which emphasizes a relaxed hand and NEVER any kind of stretching.

[GrannyRocks]

I wanted to mention that I know exactly what you mean about an action that is painful, but for me it's not the Genos, it was my old Nord Electro 73. To me the Genos has a wonderful soft action and I can play it for hours. I usually play standing up, for what it's worth. I also have a regular Yamaha grand piano and that action is also pleasing to me. As others have mentioned, the angle and height of the keyboard are critical to comfort. And technique-wise, you might look into the Taubman Method for piano, which emphasizes a relaxed hand and NEVER any kind of stretching.

Thanks for this. Yes, I have learned a little about the Taubman method and took a week-long workshop on Lister-Sink's method, which is similar. It helped somewhat, but I still had problems because my pain is caused by physical conditions, not so much poor technique.  I have Ehler's Danlos Syndrome, plus arthritis everywhere, chronic fatigue, extremely severe osteoporosis and a bunch of collapsed vertebrae, a herniated disc and much more. So several Taubman and Lister-Sink teachers have said they don't know how much they could help me, but I think it helped. I can't really use my biceps to lift my forearm very well, but I do stay relaxed -- don't stretch and barely move my fingers. My piano is outstanding as it has a dream action. And I'm very meticulous about where the height of my seat, which makes the two-stand solution pretty much impossible. I recently auditioned a 7-foot Yamaha grand for an upcoming concert, and it did have a really good action. Interestingly enough, the Shigeru Kawai in both 7 and 9 feet are much easier to play than the Shigeru Kawai in the 6' range. The size of the piano really helps a lot. I'm glad you have found the Genos and that it works for you. At least you don't have to push down through sludge to sound the note. Smile and hugs.

[soundphase]

The other main point (already said in the threads) seems to buy the midi keyboard you like, and connect Genos2 through midi.
I don't know this configuration, and, particularly, I don't know if it's fully possible to replace totally the Genos keyboard (R1,R2,R3, L) with split points.

[Christophermoment]

The other main point (already said in the threads) seems to buy the midi keyboard you like, and connect Genos2 through midi.
I don't know this configuration, and, particularly, I don't know if it's fully possible to replace totally the Genos keyboard (R1,R2,R3, L) with split points.

You still set up the Genos as you want with split points, R1, R2, R3, L and Style. The other keyboard just triggers the Genos and whatever settings you've set.

[GrannyRocks]

You still set up the Genos as you want with split points, R1, R2, R3, L and Style. The other keyboard just triggers the Genos and whatever settings you've set.

Before trying to go to MIDI hell and all that, I am trying a combination of things I learned today. I set up a bank with 8 registrations and then set up two foot pedals for up and down. But that was limiting because I had to go one way or the other. So then I saw the menu for the registration information where you can see all the instruments for the registration per bank and instead of pressing buttons, which is hard, I was able to use the touch screen and move about from registration to registration. I think that a lot of the pain I get from Genos is from pushing buttons. I still have to do that for moving around the style, but I don't use the styles themselves very much, so I finally got one bank set up properly, got it working so there was no horrible jump from one to another and tried it out. I won't know for a while how well this will work because I'm so messed up already, but I'm hopeful. While I found the touchscreen didn't work well for the four, such as on the OTS, the touch screen for the bank information was more responsive. Staying hopeful. Thanks.

[Christophermoment]

Before trying to go to MIDI **** and all that, I am trying a combination of things I learned today. I set up a bank with 8 registrations and then set up two foot pedals for up and down. But that was limiting because I had to go one way or the other. So then I saw the menu for the registration information where you can see all the instruments for the registration per bank and instead of pressing buttons, which is hard, I was able to use the touch screen and move about from registration to registration. I think that a lot of the pain I get from Genos is from pushing buttons. I still have to do that for moving around the style, but I don't use the styles themselves very much, so I finally got one bank set up properly, got it working so there was no horrible jump from one to another and tried it out. I won't know for a while how well this will work because I'm so messed up already, but I'm hopeful. While I found the touchscreen didn't work well for the four, such as on the OTS, the touch screen for the bank information was more responsive. Staying hopeful. Thanks.

Good for you. I know it seems like a lot but you will be happy when it all works.  The goal is to let you take your time setting up all the Registrations and button pushing that goes with that, and to do that in the comfort of your own home. Don't know if you have noticed yet with the Registrations but you can set a sequence. For instance 1,5,2,7,6,5,6,3 and so on, you don't have to just go up or down. 

[GrannyRocks]

Good for you. I know it seems like a lot but you will be happy when it all works.  The goal is to let you take your time setting up all the Registrations and button pushing that goes with that, and to do that in the comfort of your own home. Don't know if you have noticed yet with the Registrations but you can set a sequence. For instance 1,5,2,7,6,5,6,3 and so on, you don't have to just go up or down. 

I hadn't noticed that yet, but since I only improvise, I never know what I'm going to do from one moment to the other. Haha. But where can you do that, if I ever need to. Thanks.

[soundphase]

You still set up the Genos as you want with split points, R1, R2, R3, L and Style. The other keyboard just triggers the Genos and whatever settings you've set.

Not sure that
1/ the slave keyboard is able to send information on several midi channels simultaneously (R1+R2+R3 channels). I think it can be replaced by Left or Right hand, And right R1,R2,R3 choice depends on registration => so surely OK for Left and Right, but for the Style part of the keyboard ?
2/ the slave keyboard has a split feature allowing midi channels to be selected accordingly with the notes played.
3/ the Genos is able to modify the split configuration of the slave keyboard dynamically when the configuration is modified on Genos.

A lot of things I would verify first, before buying another keyboard.

[Christophermoment]

I hadn't noticed that yet, but since I only improvise, I never know what I'm going to do from one moment to the other. Haha. But where can you do that, if I ever need to. Thanks.

Pages 109 & 110 in the reference manual. Shouldn't you be asleep by now. 

[overover]

The other main point (already said in the threads) seems to buy the midi keyboard you like, and connect Genos2 through midi.
I don't know this configuration, and, particularly, I don't know if it's fully possible to replace totally the Genos keyboard (R1,R2,R3, L) with split points.

You still set up the Genos as you want with split points, R1, R2, R3, L and Style. The other keyboard just triggers the Genos and whatever settings you've set.

Not sure that
1/ the slave keyboard is able to send information on several midi channels simultaneously (R1+R2+R3 channels). I think it can be replaced by Left or Right hand, And right R1,R2,R3 choice depends on registration => so surely OK for Left and Right, but for the Style part of the keyboard ?
2/ the slave keyboard has a split feature allowing midi channels to be selected accordingly with the notes played.
3/ the Genos is able to modify the split configuration of the slave keyboard dynamically when the configuration is modified on Genos.

A lot of things I would verify first, before buying another keyboard.

Hi soundphase,

The Genos can easily be played entirely via an external MIDI keyboard, but this should have a 5-pin DIN MIDI OUT. This is connected to the DIN MIDI B IN of the Genos. If one of the standard MIDI templates "All Parts" or "KBD & Style" is set on the Genos, then the external keyboard can be used exactly like the internal Genos keyboard. The external keyboard does not have to have a Split function, but one MIDI Transmit channel is sufficient.

By the way, you could also use a MIDI keyboard that only has a USB-MIDI port. However, an additional "USB MIDI Host" device is then required to connect the USB-to-host terminal of the MIDI keyboard to the DIN MIDI B IN of the Genos.


Best regards,
Chris

[soundphase]

Hi soundphase,

The Genos can easily be played entirely via an external MIDI keyboard, but this should have a 5-pin DIN MIDI OUT. This is connected to the DIN MIDI B IN of the Genos. If one of the standard MIDI templates "All Parts" or "KBD & Style" is set on the Genos, then the external keyboard can be used exactly like the internal Genos keyboard. The external keyboard does not have to have a Split function, but one MIDI Transmit channel is sufficient.

By the way, you could also use a MIDI keyboard that only has a USB-MIDI port. However, an additional "USB MIDI Host" device is then required to connect the USB-to-host terminal of the MIDI keyboard to the DIN MIDI B IN of the Genos.


Best regards,
Chris

There is a smart mapping through 1 midi channel. Very good.

[overover]

There is a smart mapping through 1 midi channel. Very good.

Yes, there is the virtual Receive Part "Keyboard", by default controlled via Channel 1 @Port 2 (MIDI B IN).


Best regards,
Chris

[GrannyRocks]

Not sure that
1/ the slave keyboard is able to send information on several midi channels simultaneously (R1+R2+R3 channels). I think it can be replaced by Left or Right hand, And right R1,R2,R3 choice depends on registration => so surely OK for Left and Right, but for the Style part of the keyboard ?
2/ the slave keyboard has a split feature allowing midi channels to be selected accordingly with the notes played.
3/ the Genos is able to modify the split configuration of the slave keyboard dynamically when the configuration is modified on Genos.

A lot of things I would verify first, before buying another keyboard.

I don't even want to try again. I have tried several times to use a controller and couldn't manage to play live anyway. I dread even starting again. And I even had tech support. But it's something to keep in mind if defeated in every other way to play music.

[GrannyRocks]

Pages 109 & 110 in the reference manual. Shouldn't you be asleep by now. 

Thanks. I can check it out when/if the time comes. And yes, I should have been asleep but wasn't. Thanks.

[overover]

I don't even want to try again. I have tried several times to use a controller and couldn't manage to play live anyway. I dread even starting again. And I even had tech support. But it's something to keep in mind if defeated in every other way to play music.

Hi Beth,

I don't know if you read my post above, where I explained exactly how easy it is to connect an external MIDI controller keyboard so that you can play on it just like the internal Genos keyboard:
>>> https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,67845.msg512191.html#msg512191

By default, all MIDI controller keyboards that I know of send on MIDI Channel 1. So simply, as already mentioned, connect the DIN MIDI OUT of the controller keyboard to the Genos MIDI B IN, make sure that in "Menu > MIDI" the standard template "All Parts " is set and you can PLAY.


Best regards,
Chris

[GrannyRocks]

I have done this, and it worked. But I couldn't map the MIDI so that I could use the faders, etc. on my controller to control the faders and buttons on the Genos, so I had to reach the Genos and push those buttons. I tried a number of different controllers. That's where I got mesed up. Thanks.

[pjd]

I love this. I too have kissed many frogs -- may 20 -30 keyboards that I've actually bought, tried, returned, sold. Okay, you are SO right about the SArt2 voices. I LOVE those. And now I know that only Genos has that, so I can avoid wasting time looking for them. Was the GEX a heavy action or are you just not comfortable with any weighted keys, even on a piano? Since there aren't any around to try, I'd love to know. Otherwise, the sound quality is fairly similar to G2 but no SArt? I'll look at the Stage CP. Does it have the great sounds of the Genos without the SArt? I can live without the arranger part. Or are they only in the ModX. Thanks for being there.

Hi Beth --

Been a long-ish day, so I'm only getting to the Forum now for a few minutes.

I'm sometimes asked to play the Petrof acoustic grand at church when our pianist is absent. Normally, I add all the bells and whistles that are not piano and try not to step on the toes of acoustic instruments when we have them. It gets interesting...

So, I spent the last few months "kissing frogs" in and around town looking for a digital piano for practice. I eventually settled on a close-out Clavinova CSP-170, which I am still waiting on. Grrr. The Petrof doesn't trash my hands.

Some of the keyboard actions tired my hands, sometimes quickly. GEX and the new Yamaha GHC both fall into that category. The GrandTouch with linear weighting and counterweights was the best, but a bit out of my price range. I hear the GrandTouch-S is good, lighter, but I haven't played it. The CSP-170 has an NWX action -- it once was the top of the Clavinova line.

It's possible to get some very good sound from Montage/MODX, gen 1 and gen 2 both. The SArt approach has software smarts to sense articulations like hammer-ons or slides from fairly natural gestures. Triggering the same articulations on Montage/MODX needs button pushing. In terms of sound quality, the synths and mid-/upper-end arrangers are on par with each other (SArt2 excepted).

Stage CP has very good pianos -- on par or beyond Genos2. The non-piano sounds are a bit of a mixed bag. My thought would be to use Stage CP as a controller into an arranger or synth. The CP73 action is lighter than CP88 and is oriented toward electric piano players.

Sounds like you've made progress with registrations. Super!

Hope the info helps -- pj

[GrannyRocks]

Thanks for letting me know about the DEX tiring your hands.

Unfortunately, my problem is not just tired hands. It's more like hurting hands, shooting pains going up from my wrists, intense pain in my elbows and even worse in the shoulder joint and shoulder, under the shoulder blades and even under the arm pits — not to speak of my back.This is what happened to me before with G1, but I had hoped. Even then, I would go to my osteopath every week when playing the G1, and he would tell me I was a mess every time and he would try to straighten out my ribs and and more. (I have Ehlers-Danilo Syndrome and many other debilitating conditions that impact my whole body, head to toe. I also  have pain playing the piano, but not like this. I have a concert coming up on the 10th, and I could barely play the piano today. I don't know if it's the pushing of the buttons or the key bed itself or the stretching or what or even typing on the forum, which also cause problems. I have until Monday to return it, and I feel really conflicted. Unless the action is really really like an acoustic grand, I just don't seem to be able to manage. The Fantom 08 has the PHA 4 action, which is pretty good, but I don't play it that much, so maybe that helps. I've been diving into the Genos trying to decide if I should keep it and I have been using my arms to set it up. And what's made matters worse, my osteopath is on a medical leave, poor guy, and I haven't gotten treatments and because of the doctor shortage, it might be months. My husband helps me every night to try to release tight muscles, and it helps, but he doesn't know how to move my joints and ribs back into place, and I can NOT tolerate chiropractic or even physical therapy. Anyway, you can ignore all this because I don't see any answers really. I'm lucky I can play at all. Thanks for letting me vent. Hugs to you.

[Al Ram]

Maybe an option? Choose an 88-key (Midi) keyboard whose keybed you like and feels confortable playing. Connect it to the Genos2 so that you can use its sounds.

This might work for you . . . . . you can create Genos registrations that do exactly what you need to do (change instruments, tempo, etc.   Genos has up to 10 different registrations.   And then you can control the registrations using a foot pedal and the Genos sequencer . . . . .

That means that you do not need to reach anything, just change to different registrations with the foot pedal when you need to . . . . .

Sorry, if this was suggested already,   too many responses to ready them all . . . . . . . . . .

Hope you find something to satisfy your needs . . . .

have a great day