PSR SX900 - Live Control Popup (New)

[Divemaster]

Thanks Akki
Report has gone into Yamaha UK about an hour ago. I'll update with any response.
Keith.

[Innar]

Hello Akki.
I've also rarely had Live Control pop up for a second. Could it be due to heating of the instrument due to some bad solder or is it a Software error.
For some unknown reason, some of my files have been corrupted. For example, the SX700 makes the microphone sound terrible on some songs. I use Reverb a little, but sometimes it has turned into some sort of Echo effect. At first I just deleted this file and looked for the settings of the same song again in the copies. Finally I found the error.
By the way, the Laulu settings next to it had not changed. I suspect a flash drive. Now I try to turn off the instrument first and only then remove the stick. I'm not sure if there's anything wrong with that. Such nonsense is very annoying, especially when playing in a band. Turn the instrument off and on?
If you have such an error in the 000Setup file, it is nonsense.
Try making a new Setup file with a different name, then you can compare whether both are faulty.
With respect,
Innar

[Akki]

Hello Akki.
I've also rarely had Live Control pop up for a second. Could it be due to heating of the instrument due to some bad solder or is it a Software error.
For some unknown reason, some of my files have been corrupted. For example, the SX700 makes the microphone sound terrible on some songs. I use Reverb a little, but sometimes it has turned into some sort of Echo effect. At first I just deleted this file and looked for the settings of the same song again in the copies. Finally I found the error.
By the way, the Laulu settings next to it had not changed. I suspect a flash drive. Now I try to turn off the instrument first and only then remove the stick. I'm not sure if there's anything wrong with that. Such nonsense is very annoying, especially when playing in a band. Turn the instrument off and on?
If you have such an error in the 000Setup file, it is nonsense.
Try making a new Setup file with a different name, then you can compare whether both are faulty.
With respect,
Innar

Thanks for suggestions, I have edited my original post this morning:

Edit Nov 13th - I did factory reset once again, installed the newest OS and did another factory reset - problem is still there.

This all was done without anything custom on keyboard, not even USB drive inserted. Its like taking the keyboard out from the box and having this problem.

[BogdanH]

Out of curiosity I checked PSR-SX circuit diagrams (not that I'm some expert) and now I don't think this problem is caused by defective Live Control potentiometer (because Live Control works differently as I assumed). Besides that, your video is too short to be sure... for example, when message window pops-up, I think I see that Live Control value quickly changes and goes back to previous value. If that's true and depending on if it only happens to one knob or both, then one would have better chance to localize the problem.
Now I think it's either bad connection on one of the connectors that connect Live Control board with others... there are five connectors where (I think) two of them could cause this. The second possibility that I see is, that wires (of those two connection) are not placed properly and so they maybe catch distortion signal (interference) from nearby components.
All above is pure guessing, of course!
As I said, try to return the keyboard. It's impossible that problem would be solved here and the problem also won't just disappear over the time.

Bogdan

[overover]

Hi Akki,

As a next step, I recommend using the SX900's internal Test program. Test item #037 (Knob Check) can be used to check whether the Live Control Knobs 1/2 provide the correct values for MIN, MAX and CENTER position.

If this test can be completed with "OK", I suspect a hardware defect (e.g. a defective potentiometer on one of the live control knobs that happens to send unwanted values, or a loose contact on an internal connection cable, as mentioned by Bogdan). By the way, "NG" means that the test could not be completed successfully. I would definitely contact Yamaha Support regarding this error.

You are welcome to send me a PM (private message) and I will send you the necessary information on how to use the Test program.


Best regards,
Chris

[Akki]

Hi Akki,

As a next step, I recommend using the SX900's internal Test program. Test item #037 (Knob Check) can be used to check whether the Live Control Knobs 1/2 provide the correct values for MIN, MAX and CENTER position.

Tested OK - just wanted to update here (sent you pm as well)

[Divemaster]

As promised, here is the reply that I've received from Yamaha
"Dear Keith

Thank you for your enquiry.
For your reference, your case number is *********

This is not something that I have heard of happening before.

Can I ask if  'Live Controls' are set at the 12 o'clock position ?

Thank you and best regards,"

On SX700 it does it in random positions, so I have responded accordingly.

[BogdanH]

...
This is not something that I have heard of happening before.
...

...interesting 

Bogdan

[Akki]

...interesting 

Bogdan

As promised, here is the reply that I've received from Yamaha
"Dear Keith

Thank you for your enquiry.
For your reference, your case number is *********

This is not something that I have heard of happening before.

Can I ask if  'Live Controls' are set at the 12 o'clock position ?

Thank you and best regards,"

On SX700 it does it in random positions, so I have responded accordingly.

Interesting Indeed!

Interesting is the question they have asked. It shouldn't matter at all - 12 o'clock or any random position should make a difference - this should be happening either way.

Just as I was writing this post it started happening again, it's just..... 

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AulY-fbvVosUhqRPMvG91Qas_UwyqA?e=vfkHkm

[BogdanH]

I meant "interesting" with sarcasm, because I expected such reaction (see my first post).
The thing is, there's usually someone who doesn't have a clue and just says & ask generic stuff. Next question will probably be: did you try to reset keyboard? -it's like they're hoping the problem will disappear meanwhile.

Bogdan

[Akki]

I meant "interesting" with sarcasm, because I expected such reaction (see my first post).
The thing is, there's usually someone who doesn't have a clue and just says & ask generic stuff. Next question will probably be: did you try to reset keyboard? -it's like they're hoping the problem will disappear meanwhile.

Bogdan

Hahah, I know right...

Trust me Bogdan,.. i have tried everything I had in mind to do and what was suggested to me to do.

[Divemaster]

Here's my latest reply to Yamaha UK.

"If you check out the latest Video on the thread I've sent you, towards the end of the thread, you can see what's happening.
It doesn't matter where the knobs are set.  It's happening without any keys being touched. It's the ghost in the machine!
It's now been reported to Yamaha Canada, UK and Poland, so with respect there definitely IS a problem either software or hardware related.
Can you please log this to Yamaha HQ for attention. I look forward to hearing from you, as a warranty issue. It shouldn't be happening.
Thanks.
Keith. "

As before, I'll update as and when I hear anything.

Keith

[Akki]

Here's my latest reply to Yamaha UK.

"If you check out the latest Video on the thread I've sent you, towards the end of the thread, you can see what's happening.
It doesn't matter where the knobs are set.  It's happening without any keys being touched. It's the ghost in the machine!
It's now been reported to Yamaha Canada, UK and Poland, so with respect there definitely IS a problem either software or hardware related.
Can you please log this to Yamaha HQ for attention. I look forward to hearing from you, as a warranty issue. It shouldn't be happening.
Thanks.
Keith. "

As before, I'll update as and when I hear anything.

Keith

Thanks alot Keith!

I talked to a dealer earlier, and they offered replacement or full refund. So yes i kind of fell "covered"  but I still have a feeling that I need to wait for Yamaha response (maybe not? ⁣)


Edit by overover: Added an invisible character (unicode 2063) so that the smilie and the closing bracket at the end of the text are displayed correctly

[BogdanH]

Don't wait -take the offer from your dealer!

Bogdan

[DerekA]

Don't wait -take the offer from your dealer!

Totally agree Bogdan. It's not worth trying to track down the problem because - let's be honest - nobody at Yamaha (or any other big company) really cares about intermittent faults affecting a small number of customers.

[stevem]

Purely by chance, i revisited an old review and just spotted it happening twice on a 4 year old recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViCCIsGKIcU&t=352s

at 5:46 and a few seconds later.

Well, that's it!  i can't live with that. i'm off to order a Genos 2 now

Or not.
steve

[BogdanH]

@steve
Interesting... and "reviewer" doesn't bother to mention that (of course not!).
That's why I never make my decision based on advertisement videos or when I notice signs of fanboy-ism.

Yes, Genos2 is supposed to be pop-up free 

Bogdan

[Akki]

Purely by chance, i revisited an old review and just spotted it happening twice on a 4 year old recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViCCIsGKIcU&t=352s

at 5:46 and a few seconds later.

Well, that's it!  i can't live with that. i'm off to order a Genos 2 now

Or not.
steve

@steve
Interesting... and "reviewer" doesn't bother to mention that (of course not!).
That's why I never make my decision based on advertisement videos or when I notice signs of fanboy-ism.

Yes, Genos2 is supposed to be pop-up free 

Bogdan

WOW - and they say then have never heard about it :/
Bogdan, do you know if they have popup blocker available for SX900?

[Akki]

Another one.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AulY-fbvVosUi5lxLcVYapyZXpj_Ig?e=KyEuVA

I don't think ill keep uploading as its more regular now.

I am in the middle of conversion with dealer about exchange/return. Furthermore, I sent an email earlier, just to clarify something before I proceed.

[Divemaster]

Latest reply from Yamaha

I have been speaking to some colleagues in Europe today regarding your enquiry and we would recommend that one of our Yamaha Authorised Service Centres like E&M Electronics inspect the unit.

E&M can be contacted on 01908375699

E&M cover both warranty & none warranty repairs.

Alternatively you can use our Service Centre locator on the link below :-
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/service_locator/index.html

Yamaha Music Europe GmbH (UK) only advise qualified personal to attempt to repair any Yamaha Product.


I hope this helps and thank you for contacting Yamaha Music Europe GmbH (UK).

I'm not absolutely certain that they are accepting this as a warranty issue. It seems more like them wanting to pull my SX700 apart to try and find the issue that's causing this. Not sure I am happy with that, especially as they claim not to have previously known about the issue.
I will think about this over the weekend, but not altogether happy.

[Akki]

Yea,.. lets use your unit, your money and test our product while you will be without keyboard for time being.
At least Yamaha EU responded to you, and as I can see they are responsive,.. Yamaha Canada nothing, i still didn't hear back from them.

[Divemaster]

Hi Akki     Yes.... Exactly!

I think I've pretty well decided that, frankly, they can get stuffed with this idea.

Must think I came down in the last shower of rain.

I'll continue to play it, and obviously I will be looking at Korg next time round.

The money's not important, but the sheer denial that the problem even exists annoys me.

Keith

[BogdanH]

...Not sure I am happy with that, especially as they claim not to have previously known about the issue.
...

-I can understand you're not happy.. but the thing about "we never heard about that happening" is not necessary true: it's just a typical response (known since ever) just to avoid any kind of warranty obligation. I mean, if they would say "yeah, that happens all the time", what would you think then? Exactly: product is flawed... means, free repair 

On the other hand, if they really don't know what's causing this, then it can get complicated: you wait few weeks and then you get keyboard back with saying "it should be fine now".. and after a while the thing maybe starts happening again.  I'm just thinking aloud here.. but then, repair is the only option you have.

Bogdan

[Divemaster]

No.... I do have plenty of other options Bogdan. Quite easy really.

Korg, Ketron or whatever. Yamaha don't have any say in what I choose to spend my money on.
And I'm afraid that this has got me very annoyed.  In any event they have probably now lost a past, current and future customer. Like dodgy car insurance salesmen using the small print to wriggle out of the warranty. That's bad business practice.

The product is faulty Yamaha. Identify the problem and deal with it. Thank You.

My grave (the other word attracts wokey points) will freeze over before they strip my keyboard as a test bed,  and I'm no Guinea Pig. Especially as A. As admitted they haven't heard about this before, which is untrue, they don't have a clue what they are looking for, and B... expecting me to foot the bill! 

That ain't happening. The keyboard will not be going to any of their repairers who can pretend to fix whatever problem should have been identified during production. Most of these repairers incidentally, are listed as TV, video and general electronic repairers, not keyboard specialists.

I can hear that conversation now. Well sir, finding intermittent faults is notoriously difficult... blah blah as they put it to one side week after week. Meanwhile I end up losing the use of it. Oh No.

This is NOT having a pop at Yamaha. Far from it. It's purely and simply expecting them to honour their guarantee.

I will await their response, but if it can't be resolved amicably, then I can and will deal with it in a far more robust manner. A guarantee is a contract....


Keith

[Akki]

I dont know if i can call this an update BUT Yamaha CA responded

Hello ,

unfortunately, the access to the video has timed out. Can you please reshare

apologies for the delayed response,


I will do my best to troubleshoot this with you.


Yamaha Canada Music Technical Service

PRIVACY NOTICE: This message is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under any relevant privacy legislation. If you're not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please notify me by return e-mail and delete all copies of this message

. //////// AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ : Ce message peut contenir de l'information légalement privilégiée ou confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire ou croyez avoir reçu par erreur ce message, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur et d'en détruire le contenu sans le communiquer à une tierce partie ou le reproduire

ref:!00DU00Y8bM.!500JQ0CzmaP:ref

I again provided them with the link to this post, hoping we will not go back and forth too much

[Amwilburn]

Yea,.. lets use your unit, your money and test our product while you will be without keyboard for time being.
At least Yamaha EU responded to you, and as I can see they are responsive,.. Yamaha Canada nothing, i still didn't hear back from them.

Oh, you're actually supposed to get your dealer/salesperson to contact Yamaha Canada (if you want faster service). So please go back to them; and if it's been less than a month, they should actually be able to just swap you another sx900

Mark

[overover]

Oh, you're actually supposed to get your dealer/salesperson to contact Yamaha Canada (if you want faster service). So please go back to them; and if it's been less than a month, they should actually be able to just swap you another sx900

Mark

That's exactly what I recommend.


Best regards,
Chris

[Akki]

Thanks guys. Thanks alot for all inputs!

I'm done with 900 , I just don't want to take any more chances.
If this unit has problems I'm worried that replacement one may eventually start having the same.
I have scheduled return already and o am with Genos 1 now , with new/more questions 😂😂

[Divemaster]

UPDATE

For anyone else who has this issue. Applies to PSR SX-700 and PSR SX-900 

The complete circuit board on that side of the  keyboard will need replacing. The potentiometer pots are not replaceable on their own under warranty. It's quite a sizeable circuit board, and extends well across the keyboard.
Obviously if you go the DIY repair route you do what you want.

A&C Hamilton of Preston UK have replaced the  board after I travelled 250 miles for them to do it while I waited, and after they had viewed quite detailed videos that I sent to them showing quite clearly that this certainly IS a problem, and as major dealers, they  conveyed that information to Yamaha Europe and UK. who up to that point had been entirely unhelpful, and in denial of the issue. Not good!

Whilst there, I had the opportunity to look at a very comprehensive selection of keyboards, Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Nord, and others, and some nice pianos. Food for thought. In the interim I have bought another keyboard privately.

So full marks to A&C Hamilton. I will buy from them again as a result of their excellent service

Keith.

[BogdanH]

hi Keith,
Thank you for keeping up to date. Yeah, nowadays complete boards are replaced (time is money).

Bogdan