Loose knobs on Genos

[NAMA]

I sold my PSR-SX700 and bought a second hand Genos. I got this Genos fairly cheap because during negotiation I noticed a small problem: the fixation of 2 knobs (break and start/stop) seem to be different from the other knobs, they can be moved in the square hole of the cover much more than the other knobs. Although they function well I like to know the cause of this. I am technically skilled so maybe I can fix this. Before I start disassembling I like to know how these knobs are fixed. Can somebody tell me?
Bert

[BogdanH]

This has been reported by some Genos owners here in forum. In short: knobs are physically broken. As far I know, there's no way to repair that -you need new knob covers.

Bogdan

[NAMA]

This has been reported by some Genos owners here in forum. In short: knobs are physically broken. As far I know, there's no way to repair that -you need new knob covers.

Bogdan

Thanks for your quick reply Bogdan. I can try to order these serviceparts but need the servicepartnumbers. How to get these?
Bert

[BogdanH]

Maybe someone who had this problem will chime in and give you the part number... or you call Yamaha and describe which knobs you need.

Regards,
Bogdan

PS: I think you need these two:
ZW915900 BREAK
ZW916300 START/STOP

[EileenL]

These are Buttons and not knobs. Get in touch with your Yamaha service department and they will know the ones you need to order.

[pjd]

Since people have issues with the button legends wearing off, here are Genos part numbers for button covers with a printed legend. The button covers are distinct parts and are separate from the electrical switches mounted on the panel left, center, and right printed circuit boards.

Please note that some button covers are ordered individually and some are ordered as a set.

Hope this helps -- pj

The reference number (Ref#) identifies the different button covers in the Upper Case Assembly (exploded) diagram.

Ref#  Part description
----  ---------------------
90    Articulation buttons
95    ACMP
100   Intro: I, II, III
100   Ending: I, II, III
110   Break
120   Main Variation: A, B, C, D
125   Registration: 5
140   Registration: 6
145   SYNC STOP, SYNC START, START/STOP
150   Registration: 1, 2, 3, 4
150   One Touch: 1, 2, 3, 4
150   Multipad: 1, 2, 3, 4
160   Registration: 7, 8, 9, 10

Buttons with reference number (ref#) are imprinted with the digits 1, 2, 3, 4:

    150 ZW568500 BUTTON M 14 x4   REGISTRATION MEMORY 1-4,
                                  ONE TOUCH SETTING 1-4,
                                  MULTI PAD CONTROL 1-4

They each appear to be sold as a four button set (i.e., one each 1, 2, 3, 4 digit buttons in a set).

The remaining registration buttons have three different part numbers:

    125 ZW916000 BUTTON 5     x1 REGISTRATION MEMORY 5
    140 ZW916200 BUTTON 6     x1 REGISTRATION MEMORY 6
    160 ZW568600 BUTTON M 710 x4 REGISTRATION MEMORY 7-10

Buttons 7-10 appear to be sold as a four button set. In order to replace all registration buttons, you need to order the 1,2,3,4 set, 5, 6, and the 7, 8, 9, 10 set.

Articulation, MAIN, START/STOP and INTRO/ENDING buttons are sold as sets:

     90 ZW915700 BUTTON ART  x3 ART. 1-3
     95 ZW915800 BUTTON ACMP x1 ACMP
    100 ZW915600 BUTTON R 1  x3 INTRO,ENDING/rit.
    110 ZW915900 BUTTON BRE  x1 BREAK
    120 ZW568200 BUTTON M AD x4 MAIN VARIATION A-D
    145 ZW916300 BUTTON STA  x3 SYNC STOP,SYNC START,START/STOP

[Oxford1035]

If l remember corretly, l think Lee Batchelor had a problem like this.

Kind regards,

Russ

[BogdanH]

These are Buttons and not knobs...

Sorry for wrong terminology -with Break and Start/Stop description it was pretty much clear what's meant.
Thank you for correcting.

Bogdan

[NAMA]

Thank you all for your assistance in getting this solved. I am going to see where I can order the parts ZW915900 and ZW916300. I will try the Yamaha service department in The Netherlands first.
Bert

[maartenb]

These plastic knobs are known to have weak hinges. The electric switches underneath them are fine. It's just the plastic hinge inside the knob that breaks off.

How to avoid breaking them?
Since the hinges are located at the top of the buttons, the best way is to train yourself to press the buttons on their bottom half (the half closest to the keys). Then they'll last a long time.


Maarten

[NAMA]

These plastic knobs are known to have weak hinges. The electric switches underneath them are fine. It's just the plastic hinge inside the knob that breaks off.

How to avoid breaking them?
Since the hinges are located at the top of the buttons, the best way is to train yourself to press the buttons on their bottom half (the half closest to the keys). Then they'll last a long time.


Maarten

Bedankt voor de tip Maarten.

[overover]

Hi Bert,

You can order Yamaha spare parts from the German company "Audio-Service Schierbecker, Hamburg" (www.audio-service.com). However, the two parts you need are probably not available from stock because they are marked "Delivery time possible" (see also the attached screenshot).

You can call up the spare parts shop (in German "Ersatzteil Shop") directly via the following link. Then please type "genos" in the search box, click on the "magnifying glass" and then click on the shown number "149651" to bring up the Genos spare parts list.
>>> https://www.audio-service.com/asshop/shop.nsf/sts?open


Best regards,
Chris

[attachment deleted by admin]

[NAMA]

Hi Bert,

You can order Yamaha spare parts from the German company "Audio-Service Schierbecker, Hamburg" (www.audio-service.com). However, the two parts you need are probably not available from stock because they are marked "Delivery time possible" (see also the attached screenshot).

You can call up the spare parts shop (in German "Ersatzteil Shop") directly via the following link. Then please type "genos" in the search box, click on the "magnifying glass" and then click on the shown number "149651" to bring up the Genos spare parts list.
>>> https://www.audio-service.com/asshop/shop.nsf/sts?open


Best regards,
Chris

Thanks Chris, you are always very helpful.
I already contacted Yamaha Customer Support in Rellingen and they referred me to a authorized yamaha repairshop in The Netherlands to get the parts. I contacted them but they do not deliver parts, only repair.
I will follow your advice and hope that they deliver to The Netherlands. I will keep you informed.
Bert

[overover]

Thanks for your detailed feedback, Bert!


Best regards,
Chris

[Lee Batchelor]

If l remember corretly, l think Lee Batchelor had a problem like this.
Kind regards,
Russ

Correct, Russ. Eileen is also correct. These are buttons not knobs. They are hinged on the top part of the button, so after many sustained hits on the top they will eventually break. I have learned to tap the buttons on the bottom only. I suspect this is why some are breaking prematurely while, others remain fine for years. I ordered the Sync/Start button and have yet to open up my Genos to fix it. My friend is an IT expert and builds computers. He's going to help me fix it. I appreciate his expertise and an extra set of eyes 👀!

[Toril S]

Will there be a video of you two at work? Let me know so I can buy the popcorn!😀

[NAMA]

These are Buttons and not knobs. Get in touch with your Yamaha service department and they will know the ones you need to order.

Sorry for my mistake regarding knobs and buttons. I should have known better but the translation in Dutch is the same for both.
I checked all official Yamaha spare parts/repairshop in The Netherlands and Germay but none of them had stock. Now I ordered the buttons at a small repairshop in The Netherlands and they will be delivered this week. I was surprised that they have all buttons in stock because it is not an official Yamaha repairshop.
I will do the repair next week.
Thank you all for the support.
Bert

[Lee Batchelor]

Will there be a video of you two at work? Let me know so I can buy the popcorn!😀

Of course! Popcorn will be offered for free, depending on ticket sales 🤣.

[NAMA]

Sorry for my mistake regarding knobs and buttons. I should have known better but the translation in Dutch is the same for both.
I checked all official Yamaha spare parts/repairshop in The Netherlands and Germay but none of them had stock. Now I ordered the buttons at a small repairshop in The Netherlands and they will be delivered this week. I was surprised that they have all buttons in stock because it is not an official Yamaha repairshop.
I will do the repair next week.
Thank you all for the support.
Bert

I received the buttons today and and it took me about one hour to replace them. It was not that difficult, thanks to all the information on this forum about dismantling the Genos. See picture of the broken buttons.
Bert

[attachment deleted by admin]

[BogdanH]

Congrats Bert, you made it!
Now, just enjoy your keyboard 

Bogdan

[Toril S]

What??? No video??😀😀 Congrats with the result! You saved some money there!

[maartenb]

See picture of the broken buttons.

Congrats, Bert! And thank you for letting us know the result. Much appreciated.

If you still have the broken buttons, would you be so kind to post a (macro) close-up of the broken hinges, please? I would like to know why these hinges are so prone to breaking.

Many thanks in advance,


Maarten

[Lee Batchelor]

If I may Maarten, I did a screen capture of the broken Break button for you. The yellow circle is the hinge point for all these buttons. With sustained hits above the center point of the button, the hinge becomes weak over time and eventually breaks. It's a terrible design. Genos users must learn to press the buttons gently and preferably BELOW the center point of the button. That's the only hope of a normal life span for these buttons.


[attachment unavailable]

[Toril S]

How COULD Yamaha do this to us?? OMG!

[Gunnar Jonny]

How COULD Yamaha do this to us?? ***!

Plastic fantastic made in China. 😁😁😁

[Lee Batchelor]

Plastic fantastic made in China. 😁😁😁

True, Jonny but I must remind you that China can produce top quality products if the client hands over the correct amount of money. China is not the culprit here - Yamaha is. They are the ones (like any client) who dictate the level of quality they want. This level of quality is determined by the money folks and their insatiable thirst for profit. Reasonable profit is fine but not at the expense of poor quality. Yamaha is not alone. The whole world has gone this way over the last 20 years or so. "Build it cheap, and kick it out the door before it's been tested and approved. Get that cash flow going!!" Welcome to the 21st century 🙃.

[pjd]

China is not the culprit here - Yamaha is. They are the ones (like any client) who dictate the level of quality they want.

I agree with Lee -- China is not the culprit.

Yamaha typically build and operate their own off-shore factories, including China. As in many countries around the world, Yamaha build indigenous factories in order to operate as a business in the regional market. Some of the factory output is reserved for export. So it goes with China.

The Genos box reads "Designed in Japan". That includes the choice of components, the plastic case, everything. They don't go to 招財雞 manufacturing and say, "What can you build for us today?" That's a prescription for manufacturing disaster and Yamaha are much smarter than that.

As to profit, Yamaha are run by numbers guys. Their annual report reflects that. They are not a bunch of jabronis.

Ultimately, Yamaha is responsible for warranty service. If the product is unreliable junk, Yamaha will pay the price.

As Lee said, "Welcome to the 21st century."

-- pj

[NAMA]

Congrats, Bert! And thank you for letting us know the result. Much appreciated.

If you still have the broken buttons, would you be so kind to post a (macro) close-up of the broken hinges, please? I would like to know why these hinges are so prone to breaking.

Many thanks in advance,


Maarten

See enclosed close-up.
Bert

[attachment deleted by admin]

[maartenb]

Hi Bert,

Your close-up unfortunately has been removed by the admin before I could have a look at it. I'll DM you.

@Administrator, why are the attachments removed?

@Lee, thanks for your screen grab!


Maarten

[NAMA]

Administrator,
Why did you remove my photo attachments? What was wrong with it?
Bert