Yamaha Genos still worth to buy in 2022??

[genosmusic]

I look forward to your thoughts on the PA5X, Genosmusic. I'll wait for Yamaha's response but I'm curious about the PA5X from an actual user perspective and not some cheesy teaser videos put out by rank amateurs 🤣.

I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.

[Lee Batchelor]

I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.

Good to know. Most of my playing activity involves the older stuff from the 50s to 70s. Thanks.

[Jeff Hollande]

I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.

Thank you so much for this interesting information, Genosmusic.

It confirms the PA5X is not made for our generation.
And ... it might be too expensive for many younger people.

Best regards, JH

[genosmusic]

Thank you so much for this interesting information, Genosmusic.

It confirms the PA5X is not made for our generation.
And ... it might be too expensive for many younger people.

Best regards, JH

If your comfortable on your roundabout of life,then stay where you are,
However i could not live like that, im 19

[pjd]

I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you wont find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but after reading the list of Pa5x styles in the user guide, the styles on offer are not much different than Genos. A player will still find foxtrot, charleston, etc. 

I always feel "to each their own" as far as musical genres are concerned. [I might be 70, but I like and listened to a lot of contemporary downtempo and lo-fi as well as funk, etc.]

That said, possibly the Pa5x is a better vehicle for producing contemporary music, e.g., beats and so forth? That's a workflow/process thing, not so much the built-in style content. Still, there are much cheaper ways to produce beats than a Pa5x -- Akai MPC Beats and a cheapo MPK Mini can get the job done. 

BTW, I don't have any strong feelings about this vs. that having too many tools and too little talent already. 

All the best -- pj

[mikf]

If your comfortable on your roundabout of life,then stay where you are,
However i could not live like that, im 19

In all honestly I find that a pretty smart assed remark for a 19 year old. Maybe if you are very lucky in life you will get to experience a small fraction of what I have experienced in my 77 years.
Mike

[stephenm52]

In all honestly I find that a pretty smart assed remark for a 19 year old. Maybe if you are very lucky in life you will get to experience a small fraction of what I have experienced in my 77 years.
Mike

Nice comeback Mike.......I'm a couple years younger than you but I too hope he is as lucky in life as I have been and to experience a bit of what we both have.

[genosmusic]

In all honestly I find that a pretty smart assed remark for a 19 year old. Maybe if you are very lucky in life you will get to experience a small fraction of what I have experienced in my 77 years.
Mike

Perhaps your mistaken in your interpretation of my comment ?

My father is ex military, and he is Comfortable with his life,
however i am not, because i havent achieved what he has.

[Lee Batchelor]

And therein lies the disadvantages of communicating through forums and emails. Sometimes it's very difficult to project and perceive the "tone" of a message. I'm sure Genosmusic didn't mean any disrespect. He's merely saying how much he admires the older generation, especially his dad, and that he hopes to achieve several personal victories by the time he reaches our age. The Genos is a great place to start 😉! I think its amazing that a 19 year old owns a Genos.

Genosmusic - our ages (around 70) will get here faster than you think! Thanks to your dad for his service. All my male ancestors fought in conflicts from the Fenian Raids, WWI, WWII, and the 1960s Middle East crisis. They included service in the Canadian Army, Air Force (RCAF), and Navy (RCN).

[genosmusic]

And therein lies the disadvantages of communicating through forums and emails. Sometimes it's very difficult to project and perceive the "tone" of a message. I'm sure Genosmusic didn't mean any disrespect. He's merely saying how much he admires the older generation, especially his dad, and that he hopes to achieve several personal victories by the time he reaches our age. The Genos is a great place to start 😉! I think its amazing that a 19 year old owns a Genos.

Genosmusic - our ages (around 70) will get here faster than you think! Thanks to your dad for his service. All my male ancestors fought in conflicts from the Fenian Raids, WWI, WWII, and the 1960s Middle East crisis. They included service in the Canadian Army, Air Force (RCAF), and Navy (RCN).

Oh My God, thankyou so much.
My Dad is x Royal Marine, with some Horrific Life Experiences,
he loves music too, and often accompanies me to the keyboard shop

when in the keyboard shop i requested to demo the 5x,
the shop assistant, said yeah go ahead,its all rigged up to the p.a.system,

but my Dad said ,ask for headphones,
because the p.a system ,with the shop rooms acoustics,and the people talking,
will only contaminate the original sound

so i  did what he said and heard the 5x over headphones
but Dad said, wait for the upgrade o.s.
but luckily i talked him out of it .

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Genosmusic :

When I was 19 years old I was dreaming to get my first Fender Stratocaster.

I had to wait more than 20 years before I could afford one. 

Best wishes, JH

[Lee Batchelor]

You're very welcome, genosmusic. Your dad sure belonged to an elite force. Good for him. He was also wise in telling you to use headphones for trying out the 5X.

I have a special relationship with my music store. Whenever I demo a new product, I buy it and take it home on a 30 day, money back approval. I'm allowed to gig with it as well but I've never done that because I think it's unfair to the store and Yamaha. What if it got damaged? I try it out in my studio though, perhaps in a practice situation. That way, it's really identical to an in-store demo. In such a relaxed and known atmosphere, I can tell whether or not it's the keyboard I want. I only keep it a day or two because without the external distractions of people talking or some budding young guitarist playing Smoke On The Water over a Marshall stack turned up to 11, I can get a pretty quick assessment of whether or not I want the keyboard.

I was in one music store years ago that actually played the local radio station over its ceiling speakers. One such speaker was located right over one of their most expensive synths!! What the heck were they thinking 🙄? Add to the fact, the tuner was stuck between two radio stations. Instead of "signal to noise" ratio, it had "noise to signal ratio" 🤣. Duh...!!!

[keynote]

I personally would say that the
PA5X is for the younger generation,
you won't find oldies/styles, or easy-listening stuff, from years gone by.

I disagree with that statement. I've been listening in depth to more demos of the Pa5X to get a better understanding of the sound quality and of the various features/functions and without a doubt, I've concluded the Pa5X surpasses the Genos in more ways than one. Since Yamaha is an expert and master at determining what authentic musical instruments should sound like I can guarantee you Yamaha sound engineers are undoubtedly awed and inspired by just how good the Pa5X sounds. The Strings are amazing. The Pianos on the Pa5X are more realistic and truly outstanding. The Drum Kits give the Revo Drums a run for their money and exceed my expectations. The electric guitars sound better in most cases as do the Organs, including B3's - BIG TIME, I might add, and so too the Electric Pianos. The Pa5X has a richer, LIVE BAND sound that professional keyboardists desire and yes even demand in many cases. Korg can't keep pace with demand and as a result, you won't find ANY Pa5X anywhere in the USA or most other countries either for that matter. It's either Sold Out or you need to Pre-Order. FWIW, the Genos is still a fantastic arranger keyboard but Yamaha has some catching up to do if they want to retain its king-of-the-hill status in my opinion. I would like to stay with Yammie because they have a HUGE advantage regarding Styles and Voice Expansions as well as a vast array and intricate network of 3rd Party companies that cater to Yamaha keyboard products. Plus, I've heard the Korg PA series have a steep learning curve whereas I'm really familiar with Yamaha arrangers. Hopefully, we'll see the Genos successor sooner rather than later but of course, Yamaha has its own schedule and timeline. So as they say, patience is a virtue so stay tuned. To demonstrate that the Pa5X does indeed cater to the older generation here is a short Big Band tune played live on the Pa5X. Have a listen and see what you think. PS: I really like my Genos but as you can see I'm not beholden to any particular manufacturer or company. But I will likely wait and see what Yamaha has to offer before deciding one way or the other. 

Big Band Pa5X

All the best,
Mike

[mikf]

Pretty impressive demo of big band.
Mike

[musicman01]

Dear keynote,
I do not fully agree with your statement.
I played on the Korg PA5, the things I liked were the pianos and the organs.
For the rest a perfect finish on the outside. To say that Genos has been surpassed is an exaggeration.
The demo (big band) you have attached is definitely no better than Genos, recorded with a lot of effects, I can get a much better and realistic big band out of the Genos!!
Guitars can certainly be matched and even surpassed!!
As for the drums, the Pa5x and Genos are similar.
For the organs and pianos I have integrated a much better solution, B3-X (IK-multimedia) and Pianoteq 6.7 (Modartt) into Gig-performer.
As I have said several times, many do not know what is still possible with the Genos!
When something new comes out, people are always open-mouthed looking at demos and at the same time with the money bracket open.
Don't forget, it's the person behind the keys who has to do it!!!
Yesterday I saw a sax demo with the Ketron Event, with the keyboardist playing the accompaniment and the sax was just an audio track.
People start to wonder, are we playing keyboards or CDs???

[keynote]

Thanks for your input Musicman01. The opinion(s) I express are also backed up by music professional experts in their field. The 'out of the box' sounds on the Pa5X are superior in many cases to the sounds of any other arranger on the market currently. I say many cases, but not all. For instance, the Sax sounds on the Genos sound better than the ones I've heard so far on the Pa5X. Although the sound editing capabilities on the Pa5X are more extensive than the Genos so it's easier to get the sound you prefer. So sound shaping on the Pa5X can be more rewarding since the tools available to edit the sounds are more intricate and comprehensive.

Here's another Big Band demo played live on the Pa5X. The 'older generation' take note.    More Big Band Pa5X

Update: Here's some Pa5X Acoustic Guitar(s) with a Tenor Sax in the mix. The guitars are excellent and the Sax is pretty good. Just comparing vs. the Genos. I'm not trying to upset anyone on our YAMAHA FORUM. Keep an open mind, folks. Feedback is appreciated. I still cherish my Genos FYI. Think of it as simply exploring what the competition has to offer. Including products from Yamaha. Pa5X Acoustic Guitars with a Sax thrown in for good measure 

[stephenm52]

Dear keynote,
I played on the Korg PA5, the things I liked were the pianos and the organs.


People start to wonder, are we playing keyboards or CDs???

My 2 cents worth I have a Pa4x and to my ears the big band demo styles remind me of the Pa4x. This is not to say that the Pa5x voices haven't improved.  I've never played one only listened to the demos. I have always preferred the pianos and organs on the Pa4x.


My preferred board is the Genos.

On the subject are we playing keyboards or playing CDs.   I do all shows for senior citizens usually after the first tune I tell the audience this is a state of the art computer assisted keyboard.  I then play a piano solo that shows it's all me playing to prove to the audience it's just not a machine that plays music for me.  Then thru registrations I add and instrument one by one. I tell the audience OK here's my drummer then add in drums, then I say we need a bass player and I add the bass via a registrations. I keep building on that until I have a full band backing with me.  At this point the audience gets the idea it's me playing but I have help similar to having other musicians play along with me.  By the way this is not my idea as I recall Gary Diamond is the guy who told me about it.

[Bill]

YAMAHA FORUM. Keep an open mind, folks. Feedback is appreciated. I still cherish my Genos FYI.

Think of it as simply exploring what the competition has to offer. Including products from Yamaha.

Surely that is what life is all about. — getting the most bang for your money.

Bill

[ton37]

Please define 'the most bang ..'? 

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for the demos, Keynote. I'd be more impressed with those demos if the performer used about 90% less reverb. The playing style of the sax and trumpet parts uses a lot of accidentals. It makes it sound like horns obviously played by a piano player - big mistake. As a former trumpet player, I always thought accidentals should be used very sparingly - not in every other bar.

As for the PA5X, it has its strengths but I don't hear anything that jumps out over the Genos. The default drum and bass mixes in the PA5X are FAR superior. The pianos and B3s are better as well, but there's nothing there that makes me want to stand in line for the PA5X. I, like everyone else here, are waiting for Yamaha's reply.

[Bill]

Please define 'the most bang ..'? 

Hi Ton

What I mean is getting what we Perceive as the best value for our money.  Yamaha does not pay us to be loyal, they do not even bother with new styles etc on Musicsoft any more.  I'm not sure what is going on with the additional packs, styles since they decided to give away the old stuff.

Regards

Bill

[EileenL]

You can get some great Big Band sounds from the Ensemble feature on Genos. I wonder how many people use it.

[stephenm52]

You can get some great Big Band sounds from the Ensemble feature on Genos. I wonder how many people use it.

Thanks for the reminder I often forget we have those Ensemble sounds.

[mikf]

The fact is that all of these TOTL keyboards now have excellent sounds, and differences are marginal rather than material difference to an average listener, or even the player.
Many other things enter into the decision on whether to buy and which to buy - price, availability, ease of operation, individual features and their relative importance to you, learning curve on new system, availability of 'extras' like style libraries, voice libraries. We all weigh these up and decide for ourselves. If you prefer the sax on one but the piano on another, the decision gets harder, and you balance all the other issues, and decide.
The good thing for us consumers is that the choice is great.
BTW - life is not all about best bang for your buck, it's about using your money to best suit you. And brand loyalty is an irrelevance to most of us, we buy what we think is best for us at the moment of purchase. If you have good experience with a particular brand, you just weigh that in along with everything else.
Mike

[Oldden]

You pay your money and take your choice. Dos it really matter if key board A plays a bagpipe or a jaws harp better than keyboard B. It's the player not the keyboard that makes the difference. Demos are setup to get the best sounds that can be obtained with a certain setup, but the chances are you will never get the same. Just be happy with what you have. I love my Genos and see no reason to change. And by the way I would never have got rid of my Hammond except for the space it took up, happy days.

[Oldden]

You pay your money and take your choice. Dos it really matter if key board A plays a bagpipe or a jaws harp better than keyboard B. It's the player not the keyboard that makes the difference. Demos are setup to get the best sounds that can be obtained with a certain setup, but the chances are you will never get the same. Just be happy with what you have. I love my Genos and see no reason to change. And by the way I would never have got rid of my Hammond except for the space it took up, happy days.

[keynote]

You pay your money and take your choice. Does it really matter if key board A plays a bagpipe or a jaws harp better than keyboard B. It's the player not the keyboard that makes the difference.

I would say to an extent the player makes a big difference. Having said that the sounds on the keyboard itself also make a big difference. If I'm an accomplished musician/keyboardist, would I rather have good sounds in my keyboard or superb sounds? The answer for the serious musician is they want the best sounds possible I would think. I want a Bagpipe that sounds like real Bagpipe(s). I want a Jaws Harp that sounds as close as possible to the real thing. The player is vitally important, but the "sounds" are the more important aspect for the musician/keyboardist especially big-name artists that do world tours. You don't want to go out on stage and have your audience start throwing tomatoes at you because your keyboard can't cut the mustard even though you're playing skills are top notch. Just saying. Enjoy what you play for sure.

All the best,
Mike

[BogdanH]

...I want a Bagpipe that sounds like real Bagpipe(s). I want a Jaws Harp that sounds as close as possible to the real thing.
...

-I agree on that... I'm pretty sure we all do.

I have midrange PSR-SX700 keyboard, so I can't speak about sounds in Genos, PaX5, etc. Demos aren't really of that much help, because music is chosen in a way, which shows sounds in the best light. And so it happens I find musicians playing on Youtube as a better source.

What I think, many times we're mixing two things: how close to original some voice sounds, and, how good some voice imitates the original sound. Speaking for my keyboard, and having in mind instruments I've listen in real life, most voices are imitations only -far from "close to original". I don't talk about electric guitars, synth's and similar -they're artificial by nature and can sound in many ways. I talk about real acoustic instruments. I doubt if that many voices were actually created by recording real instruments.

And then, there are a limitations on how we can play certain voice (instrument) on keyboard. Violins (string orchestra) for example... here, glissando/portamento is one of the very important expressions -on keyboard however, that only works in mono (single note) mode. And is influenced only by "linear" portamento time.. means, the time is the same for two adjacent notes and for two distant notes -that's not how it's done on real instrument. And so, many times even relative simple pieces of music, can't be performed well.

In short, for keyboards, there's a LOT of room for improvements.

Bogdan

[DerekA]

I talk about real acoustic instruments. I doubt if that many voices were actually created by recording real instruments.

I would disagree with that - all the 'acoustic' voices on SX and Genos are generated from wave samples.

But I think this is the key point. A sample can sound great when played skillfully, using all the dynamic and articulation options available. Or the same sample can sound awful when played in a monotonous, clumsy way. That's what people mean when they say it's the player that makes the most contribution to the overall performance.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The Saxes are awful in my view as they sound thin  and washed out
Piano's and Synths are Korgs asset and the rest Yamaha knocks the arranger market into touch
All those fiddly buttons on the Pax5 makes for an overcrowded dust collector.
Nice wooden ends though and no print on the buttons.
Genos is still the KING!!