Yamaha Genos still worth to buy in 2022??

[Lee Batchelor]

A sample can sound great when played skillfully, using all the dynamic and articulation options available.

Truer words were never spoken. When playing a sax sample, you can't think like a piano player. You must leverage your saxophone brain.

[mikf]

The Saxes are awful in my view......

Ok John, we get it, you prefer the Genos sax. But awful .. hardly. We all have personal preference, but most people think the Korg voices overall to be very good.  In fact all these TOTL arrangers - Ketron, Genos, Korg - sound very good to me, not a lot between them.
Mike

[keynote]

On both the Genos and the Pa5X there are plenty of different Sax voices to choose from. We've heard a few on the internet regarding the Pa5X Saxes with some better than others. But again, the nice thing about the Pa5X and the Genos is the ability to shape the sound to more your liking using the Voice Edit features. Korg actually has an advantage in that realm since the Editing tools are more comprehensive with greater microscopic editing capability. What we're mainly hearing from the Korg currently is 'out of box' sounds. When the major OS update is released in December for the Pa5X I wouldn't be surprised if the overall sound is improved on many of the individual instrument sounds. Here's another example of Saxes & Brass Combo sounds from the Pa5X. Out of the Box they sound pretty good in my opinion. Saxes & Brass Combo

All the best,
Mike

[Oldden]

Reading the reply's makes me think what we are really looking for. If it's wanting to  sound  like a real instrument then try Kontakt 7, some of the instruments are very good but they have loads of options so I would not like to try live, plus you  need first class gear for the actual sound. Then there is software like Presonus, band in a box, Cubase and many more, it's all down to what you want, plus how much you are prepared to pay, which for me, at it is just a hobby  cost is a factor. I've still got my psr3000 and enjoy playing it, plus a midi keyboard which I use with garage band. I don't honestly think it matters because I only play at home what I use, I just enjoy all the options available.

[Lee Batchelor]

To John's point about awful sax voices on the 5X. I think they're okay but still not quite as good as the "out of the box" shape of the Genos sax voices. What's questionable about the 5X sax voices is how they're played in the demos. You can tell that the person who's playing them has not done their homework in listening to real sax players and using those techniques as much a possible. The R&B band I joined a year ago required me to do a lot of sax solos. I studied the technique for hours to get the sound I (they) wanted. I'm still not exactly like the real thing and never will be, but I'm much closer than the person playing the demo on the 5X videos.

[Drsun19]

Genos is the best keyboard till now...(change my mind).

I have a whale of a time with my keyboard at home, when i play at gigs it always rocks and the possibilities are infinite i have plenty of libraries, samples and styles. What i highly recommend you is to edit your midi files and styles to your taste. Some could argue that some sounds or midi files don't sound so real but what does the trick is the edition!

I'm really happy with it.

Greetings.

[Lee Batchelor]

Genos is the best keyboard till now...(change my mind).
I have a whale of a time with my keyboard at home, when i play at gigs it always rocks and the possibilities are infinite i have plenty of libraries, samples and styles. What i highly recommend you is to edit your midi files and styles to your taste. Some could argue that some sounds or midi files don't sound so real but what does the trick is the edition!
I'm really happy with it.
Greetings.

Agreed but my big beef with the Genos is the weak piano, e.piano, and organ voices. These are at the heart of all keyboards. For nearly $7,000, they had better sound like the real things! My other issue is the clunky style editor. I'm very capable of creating my own styles but I simply refuse to do them on such a pathetic editor. For what we pay for the Genos, there should be PC and Mac editors available for download. Perhaps in Genos 2? If not, I may move on to a different arranger.

[pjd]

I started experimenting with the V3 Sound YAMMEX XXL expansion module. Found one on ebay at a ridiculous price...

The drawbar organs are all sampled. Some have the Leslie sampled in, some are without Leslie. The sans-Leslie voices are intended for post-processing by a pedal. Through a Lester K, they beat the Montage/MODX and Genos hands-down.

The YAMMEX XXL has two decent grands: a Bosendorfer Imperial 290 and a Steinway D. They are better than the MODX CFX although the playing experience may be better from the Genos FSX keybed. (Haven't tried yet.)

The EPs are good although the selection is limited: MK1, A200, MK1 dyno, FM. They are a little too clean, but the Lester K overdrive can dirty them up. 

Yep, there is room for improvement in Genos.

All the best -- pj

[Lee Batchelor]

Good to know, PJ. For what we pay for a Genos, it should sound as good as the YAMMEX XXL.

I'm still curious about the Lester G. Should I buy one or wait for Genos 2?

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey PJ and Lee :

Referring to your comments, I wonder if it might be possible a last Genos' update will follow before Yamaha are going to introduce the Genos2 or ... is this question unthinkable ? 
Best regards, JH

[DerekA]

... is this question unthinkable ? 

... it is *un-knowable* to anyone outside Yamaha.

But this doesn't prevent people from continually asking !!!

[ton37]

agree, and still many want to answer on that question ....ehh because.. it's raining outside   

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Jeff,

I think if the Genos 2 is close to being released, say summer 2023, then any further updates other than bug fixes, are probably not coming. If Yamaha is way behind schedule, they may offer up another hidden gem in the Genos, just to keep its client base interested.

From what I've seen, I don't think either will happen. My registration issue (bug) is an isolated case. The recent update was a bug fix and some other things they didn't mention. (I hate when they do that!!)

With the cyclic nature of Covid and other viruses, I've gone from playing 100 shows a year down to about 40. The latter ones are crammed into the summer months because indoor venues are still somewhat dangerous or simply foolish without a mask and plexiglass shield. I'll be 70 next birthday and am having doubts about buying Genos 2, unless it's a major game changer. An "improved" Genos won't cut it for me. I have a little less faith in Yamaha's QC than I did a year ago, between an OS system issue they can't fix and cheap construction.

[EileenL]

Hi Lee,
  I have just listened to Jean Martyn a professional player using Genos to play piano.
It sounded fantastic and she also plays a Steinway and this was just as good to listen to.

[Lee Batchelor]

I found this video of her playing. She's amazing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNOxWldcR8

I somehow doubt the Genos would hold a candle to a Steinway but that's a totally unfair comparison 😀. I'd still like Yamaha to up their game with the core Genos voices. They've done so well with all the others.

Edit
Like most videos, I wish they'd place the camera overhead!! Aside from her stellar performance, it would be great to see her hands. Videographers, take notice!

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Lee :

You are a professional gigger ; playing music is your daily income.
You had a very difficult time ( Covid ).

I would sincerely hope Yamaha could help you out asap !
Cross my fingers !
All the best, JH

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Jeff! At least my Genos is still playable 100%. It's just a little inconvenient. When I get it solved, I'll share the information with this forum.

[Lee Batchelor]

One more thing, Eileen - thanks for sharing that video of Jean Martyn! She is a remarkable player and I'm ashamed to say I had never heard of her. I will start following her on YouTube 😉. I wish I was half as good. Like Peter Baartmans, she makes the Genos sing like a bird.

[mikf]

Lee
I don't have a Genos, but have a CVP 705 which probably has a better, but only marginally better, piano voice.
But the big difference is keyboard feel, which is way better. And even that comes nowhere close to the feel and resonance of a Steinway or other TOTL grands pianos, like Bosendorfer, Fazioli or Shigeru. If you asked Jean Martyn what she thinks of the Genos, I bet she would not be unhappy with the basic piano voice, it's the feel and the resonance that sets top grand pianos apart.
None of the arrangers or even straight digitals, get get can close to that. The Korg is good, but when both played equally well, I doubt anyone would notice a difference between the Korg and the Genos. Maybe the player, but not the average listener.
I see so many comments about piano quality on Yamaha arrangers, people want them to sound and play like a Steinway. But I have never seen anyone complain that Steinway need to come up to date and have a button that switches on a jazz trio accompaniment like a Genos! And they cost more than ten times the Genos.
The instruments are just different with different qualities, but both top examples of their type.
Mike

BTW - an aside, - although Jean Martyn is a good player, you would expect that at her level. But for this style of piano playing, listen to the great BG Adair from  Nashville, who is my favorite in this genre of very listenable jazz piano trio. Now in her eighties, her jazz phrasing is beautifully restrained, inventive and lush without ever drifting too much from the original tune. I can listen to her for hours, and if I could wave a magic wand I would want to play just like BG Adair.
Mike

[pjd]

Good to know, PJ. For what we pay for a Genos, it should sound as good as the YAMMEX XXL.

I'm still curious about the Lester G. Should I buy one or wait for Genos 2?

Hi Lee --

That's a tough question. For myself, I don't think I will upgrade to a Genos Mk2 unless Yamaha produce something utterly fantastic and impossible to refuse. I enjoy playing what I have. Thus, I'm willing to splash out for a new pedal or whatever now and then. (Usually a "used" object that's lost its shine and premium. )

There's a lot to be said for staying "all in one" when gigging. I play out with a small bag: music book, a few cables, sustain pedal, expression pedal, power supply, direct box and eyeglasses. Even that seems like too much.  I'm always afraid that I will leave some random thing behind (especially those eyeglasses). Taking Lester K means an additional cable, pedal and power supply. Lester doesn't give me enough sonic reason to take it to the church gig where the internal rotary sim does just fine.

Hope this opinion is helpful -- pj

[pjd]

But the big difference is keyboard feel, which is way better. And even that comes nowhere close to the feel and resonance of a Steinway or other TOTL grands pianos, like Bosendorfer, Fazioli or Shigeru.
Mike

Hi Mike --

I don't think I emphasized this point enough in my YAMMEX post. A big part of the "piano experience" is the playing action, the feel and the hand-sound connection. We agree.

I detest playing acoustic piano sounds on a synth action keybed. I prefer the Genos FSX keybed over the MODX and sometimes MIDI the two together. Would I take a CVP or better -- you bet!!!

All the best to ya -- pj

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Mike,
I shall check out BG Adair. I've never heard of him either. I sometimes wonder if I've been living under a cabbage leaf for the past 60 years or so 🤣🤣🤣! Good point about the Genos piano or any other electronic piano ever achieving the sound of a real piano. The physics just aren't there - although, some companies have come close.


Hi PJ,
You're right about the Lester K. It's another device to hook up in conditions where the band is pressed for time. And to be fair, the B3s I'm using in the mix probably sound just fine to the other band members and audience. If I was being recorded, that would be different. I'd use a real B3 or a really good VST sample.

Thanks guys...

[mikf]

Lee, Actually BG Adair is a lady. I said she was in her 80s and I thought she was still playing, but I found out that she died earlier this year. She has been my go to player when I want to sit back, with a glass of wine and soak in the music.
As well, as performing, and recording, she was a professor of jazz music at University in Nashville. She made dozens of albums, check out on Spotify. Her style is so relaxed, and does not sound complicated, like an Oscar Peterson or Bill Evans, and I always think, I could do that' but when I try to copy it just doesn't come out like her. It's much more subtle than it sounds.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Oops, "lady." Thanks for the correction and I apologize for the error. I shall Google her and listen for playing styles she may still be releasing to us 😉.
It sounds like she's much like Ray Charles. He made his playing sound easy until you start analyzing his passages. They're trickier than you think. Another master of the 88 keys.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

All modern new arranger keyboard's features and sounds have been improved tremendesly.
Nowadays all enduser prices have also been increased significantly.

The newest Korg PA5X's delivery has been delayed due to ( software ) bugs and maybe other problems.
A huge update has been promised for December 2022.

In November/December 2022 the Ketron/Event will be available in our music shops.
At least ( small ? ) bugs can be expected, IMO.

Yamaha will take all the time and knowledge needed to introduce a Genos2, I guess.
For me a 61n version is a must but ... I am afraid only a 76n will be available. 

Best regards, JH

[chesterkins]

Why buy a new Genos?
Plenty of good used products out there if you shop around
In the UK you can buy a Genos in excellent condition with speakers for under £3000
As we know Yamaha products last forever.........................

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Please define 'the most bang ..'? 

When you were 18

[Lee Batchelor]

As we know Yamaha products last forever.........................

One small error. I fixed it for you 🤣

As we know Yamaha products used to last forever.........................

[RoyB]

"As we know Yamaha products used to last forever........................."

And that is my experience.


I had a Yamaha PSR3000 for several years which showed very little signs of wear and never developed a fault.

My Tyros 5, after only 6 years of very modest, careful home use (and used less than my PSR3000 was), has ugly wear on several buttons (the silvery finish has worn off), and has developed a number of permanent and intermittent faults.

[Lee Batchelor]

My Tyros 5, after only 6 years of very modest, careful home use (and used less than my PSR3000 was), has ugly wear on several buttons (the silvery finish has worn off), and has developed a number of permanent and intermittent faults.

In today's world they call that "profit."