This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
This is the deal .
Rush and trade your Genos now for a Jamborie bag.  "YES Korg PAX5"!!

Only mugs will part with the Genos who cannot distinguish great sound for Commodore 64 sound.
I am being brutal here , but that is the comparison to me.
The PAX 5 is great on Piano's Strings and Quite good on Organs , But the rest of the sounds ,"Well".
Also good on functions.
The PAX 5 does not even come near the Genos.
Just look at the Trade up prices and it will tell you everything you need to know.


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[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, John.

Korg did well on the pianos, e.ps, and not bad on the organs, but the rest of the voices and drums don't even come close to even the Tyros 1 sounds. I have no idea how they dropped the ball so badly on these extra sounds. The OS looks overly complicated too. It's nicely presented but the emphasis seems to be on features rather than sound. Is their target audience computer geeks or real musicians ?

[ton37]

Some nuance would be in order... although.. , ehh... this is the Yamaha forum, yes: I totally agree with you !! 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
It just goes to show how valuable the GENOS IS

[kbrkr]

Hi
This is the deal .
Rush and trade your Genos now for a Jamborie bag.  "YES Korg PAX5"!!

Only mugs will part with the Genos who cannot distinguish great sound for Commodore 64 sound.
I am being brutal here , but that is the comparison to me.
The PAX 5 is great on Piano's Strings and Quite good on Organs , But the rest of the sounds ,"Well".
Also good on functions.
The PAX 5 does not even come near the Genos.
Just look at the Trade up prices and it will tell you everything you need to know.

I think you do not understand what the new Korg Pa5 brings to the table.  They have embedded the Kronos, SV1, and Nautilus sound engine into the Pa5.  If you have ever played ANY of those instruments, you should know the sound quality is 2nd to NONE!   Also, there are now 100's of Kronos and Nautilus sound libraries available to used within the Pa5x.  As a matter of fact, I used many of the Orchestral sounds on the Kronos and I'm sorry to say, they equal or exceed the Yamaha counterparts.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge this keyboard until you actually play it and hear it in person!!!

[keynote]

I noticed Korg upped the price of the Pa5X. $4,899 for the 76 key version and $4,699 for the 61 key. After listening to several more demos I'm a little less enthused but there could be some settings adjustments in the menus to brighten up some of the sounds. In particular, it has a warmer sound than the Genos and there may be something gimmicky going on. If you've noticed in the demos there's a lot of reverb applied to most of the sounds I've heard so far anyway. As if Korg recorded the factory samples in some type of auditorium to give them a fuller, richer sound. Almost as if they were trying to cover up some of the sound imperfections in some of the various instrument categories to try to give them more realism. One thing nice about Yamaha and Genos in particular is it has super realistic sounding voices. The Pa5X does as well such as the Organs and most of the Brass instruments I've heard so far. Anyway, once stores have them in stock I will be the first in line to play one extensively, and then make a determination whether it's a serious contender to the current Genos. Genos II is another story. In a couple or so years most likely. 

All the best,
Mike   

[Lee Batchelor]

Good points. In fairness to any new keyboard, demo videos can either really enhance the sound or destroy it. So much depends on what sound system is used to play the demo videos. Ordinary computer speakers may color the sound in a way that makes the PA5X sound superior, while listening to the demos over my Yamaha HS8 studio monitors, not so good.

Kbrkr is correct. The ultimate flinch test is bringing one home to try with the system you play through all the time. I don't even rely on "in-store" demos anymore. I can't tell you how many pianos and keyboards I've tried out in the store while some young aspiring teenage rookie is 20 feet away auditioning a Marshall stack turned up to 11, while playing Smoke On The Water, with a $1,600 Telecaster!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Seeing what the trade in price for the Genos was , it is a no brainer to keep the Genos and wait for the Next Yamaha Keyboard.
The saxes and a lot of other sound do not cut it for me.
Sorry, but Genos is a lot better sounding than the PAX5.
Genos sounds are smoother and a lot more realistic in my opinion.

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point about the saxes, John. In my current band, I'm using a boatload of sax voices. I wish there was a way to adjust the vibrato "on time" and "degree" for the saxes. The voice samples are stellar but for extra realism, I'd love to have that added advantage. I've been listening to sax solos to determine their dynamics and expressions. You also must be aware that any mouth instrument requires the player to breath! The raw material for all this to happen is well within the Genos voicings.

[nonchai]

They have embedded the Kronos, SV1, and Nautilus sound engine into the Pa5. 

Er not so quick...

first of all there isnt just ONE sound engine in the KRONOS but many - and of those the only one that applies here is the ROMPLER one.  The modelling engines - whether synth, hammond, EP , strings, etc are ONLY in the KRONOS and NAUTILUS ranges.

And as to what has been brought into the PA5 - its the addition of STREAMING from NAND "Disk" for certain big sample size instruments - pianos chiefly - from KRONOS.

But as I understand it - that streaming ability only applies to the ON BOARD factory sounds Korg have added to PA5 from Nautilus. Because of technical limitations and the size of the internal SSD ( NAND ) storage - there won't be any means to expand the PA5 with 3rd party (Huge sample size) libraries sold for the KRONOS/NAUTILUS family. The internal NAND SSD isnt that big and theres no ability to stream from external SSD because the circuit and bus tech wont support it.  There does seem a question mark as to how big exactly the internal SSD ( NAND ROM ) actually is - and how much would be free to install extra (huge gigabyte ) libraries in future - but my bet is that it wont support much in the way go gigabyte size libraries - if any -

So although its great to see some Nautilus instruments in there - engine wise and expandability wise - certainly disk capacity wise - this isnt NAUTILUS "Lite"

So I like so many am waiting with baited breath to see what Yamaha do with the next gen Genos.  And crossing fingers they do the "right thing" and include finally a USB output that supports multichannel digital audio.

[mixermixer]

Wow those upgrade prices are laughable. Korg wishes they got Yamaha marketshare.

[Whitecolin11]

which company is offering the trade ?

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Look up at the top of page 
Go to email address UK company

[Graham UK]

All sour grapes...Korg have produced a game changer here with the Pa5X.

[mikf]

I don't see it as sour grapes, just mis-judgement of what matters to new buyers as opposed to existing Genos owners.
Learning curve matters, but if you take that away, this new Korg is certainly an attractive keyboard. Yes, you will find some voices or styles on the Genos some like better, but both seem overall great sounding keyboards, and no-one buys one keyboard over another because of tiny differences in a few voices. If the voice is already pretty good, how you play it matters much more than if the voice is slightly better.
Korg may have an edge in some technical features, certainly in appearance, and a fully weighted 88 key is unmatched in a portable arranger.
Does that relegate Genos to a poor second, - definitely no, and some of the things PaX5 offers may matter little to many existing Genos owners, probably not enough to jump ship, ..... but it will be interesting to see how Yamaha responds.
Mike

[Graham UK]

No need to jump ship...many players own both brands.

There are no bad keyboards just personal preference you pays your money and take your choice.

They all have an input to help improve future boards.

This finding fault with competitors products is getting boring !!!

[Lee Batchelor]

I find it difficult to determine if the 5X is a good keyboard when the demos are played using mostly Dance, Hip-Hop, Synth, or some other modern genre. I don't play that kind of music, so I have no frame of reference. When I heard Peter Baartmans demo the Genos, he played mostly music that I play. He sold me.

If someone as good as Baartmans were to play the older tunes through the 5X, it may capture my interest. So far, all I know is the 5X is an excellent keyboard for playing the modern stuff. The older genres are an unknown and I suspect have received very little interest from Korg.

It also appears as though the interface has been designed for more of a computer geek player versus a musician, who can't be bothered figuring out all those complicated screens. There is SO much information on each screen, it would take me a year of messing around just find my way through the basics! Out of the box, you can turn the Genos on and start playing. I doubt that's possible with the 5X. It looks like there's a very sharp learning curve involved - and I'm not new to arrangers!

[Bill]

I find it difficult to determine if the 5X is a good keyboard when the demos are played using mostly Dance, Hip-Hop, Synth, or some other modern genre.

If someone as good as Baartmans were to play the older tunes through the 5X, it may capture my interest. So far, all I know is the 5X is an excellent keyboard for playing the modern stuff. The older genres are an unknown and I suspect have received very little interest from Korg.

Hi Lee

Take a look.  https://youtu.be/MQaJklT5bUQ

Bill

[DrakeM]

I find it difficult to determine if the 5X is a good keyboard when the demos are played using mostly Dance, Hip-Hop, Synth, or some other modern genre. I don't play that kind of music, so I have no frame of reference.

Yea, same here. If it can't play country or even rockabilly ... "It ain't music". Yamaha WINS bar none.

[DrakeM]

Hi Lee

Take a look.  https://youtu.be/MQaJklT5bUQ

Bill

Maybe good example of big band .... but the country selection has NO pedal steel guitar?!? Did they remove that sound? Whatever.

[Graham UK]

Lee Batchelor. This Leigh Wilbraham video may be of help Re Easy Play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQaJklT5bUQ

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Bill. Not bad. The Country style lags behind the Genos but the Latin style sounds good, as does the Swing. One thing I really notice is the number of styles that employ a 5-string bass with its B string. I have yet to hear that on the Genos.

Korg really needs a "Baartmans" player to show us what the 5X can do. So far, all the demos I've seen are done with "fair" players. They don't know the intricacies of the various solo and ensemble instruments. For example, you never use grace notes with a *** section. It's nearly impossible for a sax section to do that with the accuracy of a keyboard .

All this 5X exploring makes me even hungrier for Genos 2. Yamaha will not sit back and do nothing. I suspect Genos 2 will top the 5X.

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Graham. That's the same link that Bill posted. It does show more of the styles I use .

[musicman01]

Hello,
How the hell can one judge a keyboard if one hasn't heard and seen it live yet???
Just to be clear, I've been a Genos player since 2017!
Do you really think people at Korg are stupid?
They too will bring upgrades, and who knows, maybe some of you will soon be playing a Pa5x who knows!
PS: I'm going to a private demo with a Korg demonstrator this Sunday, I'll let you know my findings.

[Lee Batchelor]

You're right, to a point. We are all judging the 5X so far, only based on what we've heard from the current demos, which have not been stellar. I look forward to your observations. I'm sure the Korg demonstrator will be on par with Peter Baartmans, if that's even possible .

[Joe H]

I thought this was a Yamaha arranger keyboard forum... what is all this talk about Korg?  There are several threads going right now about the Pa5x. Isn't there a Korg forum?



Joe H

[mikf]

I don't see the PaX5 as a "game changer", but it's certainly part of the evolution of arrangers. An evolution driven largely by competition, so I think we are lucky to have two great companies involved, and the result is good products at reasonable prices, which benefits all of us players. None of us are married to either one, and whichever one you choose, there are no losers, because they are both excellent. And it will probably continue to get better

Joe - this a current hot topic for arranger owners, so not unreasonable to let it have space, even on a forum largely aimed at Yamaha products, as long as no-one gets obnoxious.

Mike

[Gunnar Jonny]

.....Joe - this a current hot topic for arranger owners, so not unreasonable to let it have space, even on a forum largely aimed at Yamaha products, as long as no-one gets obnoxious.

Agree fully. And we may not forget that Yamaha arrangers and keyboards is hot topic at several fora as well when there is news.
Genos is still talked about and being comparised even at Korg forum. It works well. To me it seems like Korgies are more tolerant than Yammies... 

[Jeff Hollande]

History of the Relationship between Yamaha and Korg

Yamaha Corporation has always been a major partner of Korg, supplying them with circuitry and mechanical parts.

In 1987, shortly before the release of the M1 Music Workstation, Yamaha acquired a controlling interest in Korg. The takeover of the company was amicable, with Kato drawing up the terms, and the two companies continued to independently develop their product lines and compete in the marketplace.

In 1989, Korg recruited the design team from Sequential Circuits as they were relieved of their duties by then-Sequential owner Yamaha.

In 1993, after 5 successful years under Yamaha's control, Kato had sufficient funds to repurchase most of the Yamaha shares.

No idea what their relationship is today.

Best wishes, JH

[Duffy]

Lee Batchelor. This Leigh Wilbraham video may be of help Re Easy Play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQaJklT5bUQ

Thanks Graham. Now I've heard Leigh Wilbraham play REAL music on it, The PA5X is a top notch keyboard.
Liked the looks immediately but wasn't sure about some of the sounds. Now, I think many of the sounds are brilliant after all.