How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"

[mikf]

While it is true that AI setting provides some chord shortcuts for chord playing, I always thought the major distinguishing feature for AI was that it could work out some chords from what is being played in total ie the rh and the overall chord progression. Isn't that the whole point of calling it an Artificial
Intelligence setting?
Mike

[EileenL]

I think a lot of us use this because for some it is easier than using the On Bass fingering if you are not sure of your inversions to give you the right Bass Note that will be written in music as a slashed Chord.

[mikf]

Yes, I get that Eileen. And it might be convenient but it's hardly Artificial
Intelligence when the player provides the instructional notes.
Mike

[EileenL]

Well I think the original poster has had his question answered quite a few times on here and just what AI does in letting you perform Slash chords easily.

[panos]

Thanks
It was a question from someone else ( see first post )
But a descending bass with the AI fingering can be done with two fingers , but there is then no freedom of choosing a own chord
CM7/B - B/A-A/G-G/F- FM7/E-E/D-D/C....

Hi Jarambo,
CM7/B it can be displayed on the keyboard on the AI fingering mode if you push all the right keys
B/A it is displayed as B7 
A/G it is displayed as A7
G/F it is displayed as G7
FM7/E it can be displayed on the keyboard on the AI fingering mode
E/D it is displayed as E7
D/C it is displayed as D7

All the 7ths that are being displayed are correct, because these are the invertions of the 7ths many of us use when we play nearly all the chords in just one octave range.

Sorry but I cannot understand what is the problem although I don't think I would try to play chords like FM7/E.
Not in my level at least.I would definitely simplified the chord to just match with the notes of the melody at that part.
Maybe if I was just strumming a guitar in every beat I would play whatever unusual sophisticated chord.
But as long as you want to play any kind of chord in any kind of inversion just press all the right keys and add a piano sound to the left hand while you are playing along with the style.
Is there something that doesn't sound right to your ears when playing with the AI finger or any other type of chord fingering on your keyboard?

[pedro_pedroc]

Hello.

When I have to play a diferent bass in a chord, like G/A, I change to "Fingered on Bass" mode. Then, just play the bass key with the left most key. I always do that and works very well.

The problem is: When you change to "Fingered on Bass" mode, maybe your normal chords start to sound wrong, because you normaly play invertions...
To correct that, just a Tip: You can use "Fingered on Bass" mode in a few (or just one) bar. Just use registrations to change the Fingered mode. So, before the split chord, you can press a registration button and change to Fingered on Bass, make the split chord, and after that press other registration and change back to your normal mode. This way, you can go on with your normal chords until you find a splited one... Is better to press a registration button than play the entire song with chords you may don't know. 

Regards,
Pedro

[maartenb]

I always thought the major distinguishing feature for AI was that it could work out some chords from what is being played in total ie the rh and the overall chord progression.

You mean the full keyboard ACMP mode. That has nothing to do with AI, as far as I know.

Isn't that the whole point of calling it an Artificial Intelligence setting?

The point of AI is that it takes the previous chord into consideration when you play an AI "shortcut".

Example: When you play a C chord followed by the notes b_flat-c (from left to right), you get a C/Bb. However, when you first play a Cm chord, you'll get Cm/Bb.


Maarten

[maartenb]

Maarten's F/G is a wee bit too complex for most players. If you just play G A F, you'll get F*/G.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the tip of F*/G as a nice and easier to play approximation!

Another one is g-a-c-f-g which will give you Fadd9/G. You'll need larger hands and is still a bit complex to play.

It's just great to have these options.

Example: The song Piano man from Billy Joel has a chord progression: | F  F/G | C     |
First I played it with g-a-c-f (Fadd9/G) in Fingered on Bass mode. When I discovered it could be played with a "clean" F triad as F/G in AI Fingered mode I started using that. To my ears it suits this song better. (I will try it with F*/G soon.)

It's all about choice: what sounds best for a song and what suits your playing style the best.


Maarten

[janamdo]

Hi Andy,



Another one is g-a-c-f-g which will give you Fadd9/G. You'll need larger hands and is still a bit complex to play.

The smart chord feature can be found on a psr sx600, but with this... complex chords (mainstream ) can be played with one finger for Jazz in any key.
F6^9 for C major and F7 for Gmajor  for example
A easy start for people who want to  play a jazzy song without first to study right away the advanced chords

[janamdo]

Sorry but I cannot understand what is the problem although I don't think I would try to play chords like FM7/E.
Not in my level at least.I would definitely simplified the chord to just match with the notes of the melody at that part.
Maybe if I was just strumming a guitar in every beat I would play whatever unusual sophisticated chord.
But as long as you want to play any kind of chord in any kind of inversion just press all the right keys and add a piano sound to the left hand while you are playing along with the style.
Is there something that doesn't sound right to your ears when playing with the AI finger or any other type of chord fingering on your keyboard?

Thanks
It was about a descending bass example : C-C/B-Am-Am/G-F-D/F#-G-G7/F from Bach's Air on A G string
With the AI fingering : one wholetone below a root tone (bass ) gives a slash chord : C/B  -> B is bass note now
This chord C/B is a triad  with the C replaced by the b note ? :  : C/B is as notes : b-e-g  then?

I did made from the c major scale een serie of slash cords by pressing the white key below a whole tone, but in two case it was a half tone

How a particular chord is build up? : i could record a chord 1 +chord 2 form the acmp and see it in the score display..but i am not handy with this yet .

[overover]

Hi Jan,

a "Slash Chord" always means the complete Chord (given before the slash) plus the Bass note (given after the slash) .

For example, "C/B" (spoken "C over B") means the Chord "C major" (the notes C-E-G, no matter in which chord inversion played) combined with the Bass note "B" (played below the Chord notes of course).


Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

Hi Jan,

a "Slash Chord" always means the complete Chord (given before the slash) plus the Bass note (given after the slash) .

For example, "C/B" (spoken "C over B") means the Chord "C major" (the notes C-E-G, no matter in which chord inversion played) combined with the Bass note "B" (played below the Chord notes of course).


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris
Ah now it makes it sense.
I was thinking on a inverted chord what has the same abbrevation for example  C/E , or not ?
Did not know this with a added bassnote , that's why  i could not  understand the  the C/B chord construction with 3 notes

[overover]

Hi Chris
Ah now it makes it sense.
I was thinking on a inverted chord what has the same abbrevation for example  C/E , or not ?
Did not know this with a added bassnote , that's why  i could not  understand the  the C/B chord construction with 3 notes

Hi Jan,

the Bass note (written after the slash) can be ANY note (a note that already belongs to the Chord to be played, or any other note which should be used as the Bass note at this point).

For example, you can imagine that the Chords are played by a guitarist and the Bass notes are played by a bassist. Both musicians can orientate themselves on such "slash chords": The guitarist "only" plays the Chords. The bassist also orientates himself on the Chords. However, when a "Slash Chord" is notated, he will play EXACTLY THAT Bass note.


Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

Hi Jan,



For example, you can imagine that the Chords are played by a guitarist and the Bass notes are played by a bassist. Both musicians can orientate themselves on such "slash chords": The guitarist "only" plays the Chords. The bassist also orientates himself on the Chords. However, when a "Slash Chord" is notated, he will play EXACTLY THAT Bass note.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

I can see what bass and chords instruments are involved with tiny icons in sx600


Jan

[mikf]

Jan
In music many things are about convention rather than absolute logic.  A slash chord is just a convenient shorthand way way of telling the player to play the chord with something other than the chord root as the bass. Is it an extra note or a replacement note? - it really doesn't matter. Of course that new chord could also then be termed an inversion. But there is no convenient way on a lead sheet of transmitting to a player 'play a second inversion' other than writing it as a slash chord like C/G.
So what about slash notes that are not part of the chord. Well, theoretically, every note included in a chord is part of a chord. You just have to re-define the chord. So if I wanted you to play C/G#, I could probably say it's a Caug. with a G# bass. I guess I could logically also call it C aug, 3rd inversion, but I just wouldn't because that would be cumbersome, unnecessary, a little confusing but mainly just because you don't do that!
Don't tie yourself in knots trying to work out everything logically. That's even more true of things like time signatures. Think of these things as shorthand notes you instantly understand because you have learned what they mean rather than something you can work out from basic logic. There is a lot of logic in music, but there is also a lot of just knowing what it means. That may go against the grain of your instinct as a math student, but it's how it is.
Mike

[janamdo]

Mike
Also in mathematics a symbol can have different meanings in a certain context, but it happens not much.
That's perhaps not ideal, but it somehow it is needed for some topics to be studied   
The reason for this is a interesting question for to try to be answered if you curious about this. 

Probably the same issue is in  music notation possible like for the slash chords
I am not a trained musician so it is a new encounter with a symbol

Jan 

[SciNote]

Jan
In music many things are about convention rather than absolute logic.  A slash chord is just a convenient shorthand way way of telling the player to play the chord with something other than the chord root as the bass. Is it an extra note or a replacement note? - it really doesn't matter. Of course that new chord could also then be termed an inversion. But there is no convenient way on a lead sheet of transmitting to a player 'play a second inversion' other than writing it as a slash chord like C/G

...

Well, not to throw even more confusion into the mix, but I have actually occasionally seen a form of notation that indicates the inversion of a chord, and that is to have two numbers, one on top of the other, right after the chord symbol, that shows the intervals that make up the chord, the top number being the "span" of the chord, or interval from the bottom note to the top one, and the bottom number being the interval from the bottom note to the middle note being played.

So, for a C major chord, a C 5/3 (I'm just adding a slash because the text format here doesn't easily allow for showing one number on top of another, but in the actual notation, the two numbers would be one over the other, and there would be no slash) is root position, as it shows the "bottom to top span" being a fifth (C to G) and the middle note (E) being a major third above the bottom note.  C 6/3 is first inversion (the "span" of the chord being the E-to-C minor 6th, and the middle note (G) being a minor third above the bottom note.  And C 6/4 is second inversion (the sixth being the G to E span, with the middle note (C) being a fourth above the bottom G.

Confused yet :-) ?

But with the original question about the slash chords -- Yes, no need to overthink it.  The symbol on the left of the slash is simply the chord being played, as it would be played any other time with or without the slash, and the note after the slash just indicates what bass note is to be played along with that chord.  And it is typically used when the song writer wants to indicate that it is important to the sound and character of the song that a particular bass note is played along with a particular chord at that moment in the song.  And, as previously stated, the bass note does NOT have to be a note that would normally be a part of the chord -- and in fact, it often isn't, which is why the song writer wants to make it clear to play that particular bass note with that particular chord.

[janamdo]

Hi SciNote

Thanks

I think i understand now the notation for slash cords better: in all cases it is a bass note + chord played
Please don't say its not true 
Jan

[SciNote]

Hi SciNote

Thanks

I think i understand now the notation for slash cords better: in all cases it is a bass note + chord played
Please don't say its not true 
Jan

It's not true!  Nah, just kidding!  Except that I would describe it as "chord played + bass note" instead of "bass note + chord played", because the notation is "chord played / bass note".

[panos]

Thanks
It was about a descending bass example : C-C/B-Am-Am/G-F-D/F#-G-G7/F from Bach's Air on A G string.

If you listen to the opening of the composition played by strings you will hear someone playing just bass notes(not chords) before the rest of the strings start playing the rest of the melody,chords etc.
So the one who wrote the sheet music you have and transposed the composition to the key of C, had to find suitable chords that would much to that bass notes playing.
The composition starts with notes from the C chord and then the bass is playing the notes b-a-g-f etc. while the strings keep the very first notes for very long.
So he added chords to these bass notes that make sense and as you can see he made sure that the distinguished "walking bass" would also be heard clearly.
If there is a slash chord that is not easy for you to play with all 4 keys you have to hit lesser keys but make sure that this chord notes will fit.
E.g don't play one of the middle notes of the slash chord and listen how the style is behaving.
You can always record just a really small part on a slow tempo as a midi song and then watch what notes each instrument of the style is playing by pushing play and speed up the tempo without having to save the midi song at all.

[janamdo]

It's not true!  Nah, just kidding!  Except that I would describe it as "chord played + bass note" instead of "bass note + chord played", because the notation is "chord played / bass note".

Me, i was just kidding too
I agree with you want to describe the slash chord on this way

[janamdo]

If you listen to the opening of the composition played by strings you will hear someone playing just bass notes(not chords) before the rest of the strings start playing the rest of the melody,chords etc.
So the one who wrote the sheet music you have and transposed the composition to the key of C, had to find suitable chords that would much to that bass notes playing.
The composition starts with notes from the C chord and then the bass is playing the notes b-a-g-f etc. while the strings keep the very first notes for very long.
So he added chords to these bass notes that make sense and as you can see he made sure that the distinguished "walking bass" would also be heard clearly.

Thanks

I have enclosed a score of a  exercise for the AI fingering for people who want use this chord fingering method
I am using the multi fingering chord mode within the AI chord fingering mode and after a advise: i agree

Its trying out the AI fingering method  besides the multi-fingering method and it is a other style of playing 

Jan


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[janamdo]

The descending bass playing in AI fingering mode in this example  is something different then playing Fingered on Bass
I think also in AI fingered playing inversion is the same as with Fingered chord mode : only the handpostion counts.( the chord sound stay the same)-> no i am wrong here

Its only with playing : Fingered on Bass to hear the real bass playing as i can see it now ..no must be also the same case as with the AI fingered on bass.

It is with fingered and AI fingered that handposition doesn't matter for the chord sounding: all the same

[mikf]

I could be wrong about this, but  dont think the arrangers ever change the inversion in the body of the style regardless of the fingering mode. Its only the bass that changes with certain fingering modes.
Mike

[janamdo]

I could be wrong about this, but  dont think the arrangers ever change the inversion in the body of the style regardless of the fingering mode. Its only the bass that changes with certain fingering modes.
Mike

Thanks

I think you are right : the sound difference between say  C triad and his two version is minimal to hear
Probably the arranger uses a default chord ( for to be sure i must look then for the stylesconstruction), but the added bass to a triad seems to me, make a sound difference. 

[Toril S]

I don't  hear any difference.

[janamdo]

I don't  hear any difference.

Hi Toril

What difference you can't hear exactly?
Don't  know from you what can't hear

Jan 

[Toril S]

What you just stated, you play a chord in any inversion, and it sounds the same

[jwyvern]

The only time you do hear a difference playing different inversions is when you use a left  voice in your playing and that  can add more "fullness" and interest to the sounds (eg. Bigband) if it can be done properly but of course the style carries on playing the originally identified chords with no change.

John

[Toril S]

Thanks John!