How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering"

[chony]

How do I play a G/A in "AI Fingering".

When I play A and the G on top I get A7
When I play A and GBD next octave up I get Gadd9

[Rick D.]

chony,

I can't find a way to get it myself. It will be interesting to see what others do.

Rick D.

[jwyvern]

You can do a Gadd9/A if that would sound OK (It should not clash because the 9th is an A as well).

Play ABDGA   the last two played with the thumb rather than break fingers!

John

[andyg]

Don't have a Yammie plugged in next to the computer, but.....

I think A B G should be the easiest way to get close to this. The display will say G*/A. Not absolutely perfect but probably close enough 90% of the time and doesn't have the 9th that you don't really want.

This will work for all major chords that are suspended over their major 2nds. What you're doing is omitting the 5th of the main chord.

AI is a most wonderful thing, doing more than I think even Yamaha think it can (they didn't invent it!) and more than is covered in Jackie Marsden's excellent articles in Yamaha Club Magazine. I've been asked to write a definitive guide to AI Fingered mode but even in lockdown there seems to be too many things on the list to be done first! 

[Ronbo]

hello all, 

Respectfully, may I suggest that G/A was not meant to be played using AI fingering but rather Fingered on Bass or even Fingured

I know this does not directly solve your issue.........but its my opinion only

regards

Ron

[Bruce Breen]

Thanks Ron - that is exactly what I was going to suggest.

Chony - One way to play the G/A type chords (chord/bass note) is to set "style fingering" to 'Fingered on Bass'.
See the PDF at this link for reference...(a page from my Yamaha Reference Manual).
https://app.box.com/s/ni5jegx8a0rap3ttgvg03njceejbb5mf

You do lose the "AI" software feature in doing this however...
So, the info that Chris has offered below (click on link and read) may have the answer you are looking for about the "AI fingered" setting.

[overover]

Hi all,

here is a link to the "AI Fingered Workshop by Heidrun Dolde" (German version):

https://heidruns-musikerseiten.de/media/download/pdf/workshops/style/AI-Fingered_HeidrunDolde.pdf


I translated this document into English on this site:  >>> https://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/en/translationform

You can download the resulting English version here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ndc0xlefbxbudma/AI-Fingered_HeidrunDolde.de.en.pdf?dl=0

(You do NOT have to register or log in to this Dropbox site! If a corresponding window should appear, please simply click on the "X" to close the window.


Maybe this will help some of you here.


Best regards,
Chris

[Bruce Breen]

You can do a Gadd9/A if that would sound OK (It should not clash because the 9th is an A as well).

Play ABDGA   the last two played with the thumb rather than break fingers!

John

I did some double-checking on my keyboard.
John is on to something with the AI fingered, although it is awkward to say the least.

If you use my original suggestion of "Fingered on Bass", you can achieve what he has said by only playing 4 notes.
Start with a 4 note G chord.
From the left, play the first G, as well as B, D, & G (octave).
Then change the bass note - from the left, play the first A, with the B. D, G - your display will show Gadd9/A.
As John says that should do the job for you since the 9th of chord G is the A.

If playing 4 notes is too much, you can play the A, B & D only - then your display will show Bm7/A which will sound similar, depending on the melody notes.

Hope this helps!

[valimaties]

[Dromeus]

Actually it is quite easy to play G/A using AI Fingered:

- Play the G chord in first inversion (b-d-g)
- Add the bass note A (a-b-d-g) which result in a Gadd9 chord
- Add a A# note (a-a#-b-d-g), voila: G/A

This fingering needs all of your five fingers, but it's quite easy. Simple rule:

- use fingers 3-2-1 to play the base chord in 1st inversion
- add the bass note using the 5th finger
- put the 4th finger at the key between the 3rd and 5th

Note that the a# does not belong to the G/A chord, so you better don't use LEFT=ON with this fingering.

[Ed B]

Hi
Check the style you are using. There are two types, Pro and Session. Session styles are designed to create more complex chords out of what you play. For example, play a g7 and you could get a g13. They do not work for every song but can be great at adding some complex harmony and because they change what you actually play they can give odd results when you are looking for a specific chord. There are not to many of them.
Just a thought.
Regards
Ed B

[janamdo]

Actually it is quite easy to play G/A using AI Fingered:

- Play the G chord in first inversion (b-d-g)
- Add the bass note A (a-b-d-g) which result in a Gadd9 chord
- Add a A# note (a-a#-b-d-g), voila: G/A

This fingering needs all of your five fingers, but it's quite easy. Simple rule:

- use fingers 3-2-1 to play the base chord in 1st inversion
- add the bass note using the 5th finger
- put the 4th finger at the key between the 3rd and 5th

Note that the a# does not belong to the G/A chord, so you better don't use LEFT=ON with this fingering.

I am studying now the AI fingering mode, but G/A  is G chord is g-b-d, so this make no sense G/A because a is not belonging to the G chord (right?)
 

[valimaties]

I am studying now the AI fingering mode, but G/A  is G chord is g-b-d, so this make no sense G/A because a is not belonging to the G chord (right?)

Hi janamdo.
The letter after "/" character will say which note will play in bass (or by bass instrument). There could be a lot of combinations in real music band, which one instrument could play a chord, another one other chord, bass will play one or a combination of notes, so finally it wil be a gorgeous combination 😁
G major or minor is a simple chord, but could be a lot of complex chords related to this simple one:
G add9 contains A key. But if this nineth is taken by another instrument, not by the accompagnament instrument, the sound is more pure. Think about the guitar to sing G-B-D and the bass will sing A... Nice... Now think about guitar playing A-B-D and bass playing G key... This will be other sound... There are a lot of combinations between instruments, so that is AI for, to take this advantages of multiple instruments, everyone singing some special notes/chords and the sound to be more pure, clean...

Regards,
Vali

[janamdo]

Hi Vali,

As i understand it now its a "split chord"
Here i do have a example of eleventh chord as a chord split : G11 (6 notes) ) -> F/G -> Dm 7/G ( two split chords made out of G11)
The bass note here is G , so for example   F/G is a bass note G + F maj triad   

The whole AI fingering is not understood by me , while all other fingering modes are not difficult to understand

Regards
Jan

[mikf]

 Split chords - ? No idea what you mean there.
The bass note in a slash chord does not have to be part of the normal chord. A good example is a descending bass run C C/B C/A/ C/G. Or even a chromatic bass run. The bass notes are just added to the chord. You could of course give them names like C7, or C6 to add these notes. But even that is not strictly correct because the note added is conventionally not the bass note, but a higher note. Slash chords are just what they are - a chord played against a different bass. I think you are trying to find a rationale for something that just 'is'.
Now how the AI works is a different matter.  It might be very difficult to play some of theses combinations even using AI. A better way is when you are using a multi note lead instrument like piano, is to finger some of the chord in the RH. With the bass in the left. The AI is often smart enough to get this. My experience of AI is that it is not perfect, but pretty good at getting it most of the time.  Its even better when you use AI full keyboard playing organ or piano. Even Andy G, a true expert in this area, admits that there are some mysteries in the way AI software works that he still hasn't completely fathomed.
Mike

[valimaties]

No - AI fingered it not means splitting chords

AI Fingered mode helps you take other note in Bass than the chord played by the acmp...

For example:
If you want to play G but you need D in bass, you will play D1+G1 keys (D and G from the same octave).
If you want to play E but you need Ab in bass, you will play those two keys, but the bass note you want to play is the left-most key, so it will be Ab1+E2.

[andyg]

If you want to play E but you need A# in bass, you will play those two keys, but the bass note you want to play is the left-most key, so it will be A#1+E2.

That does not work, I have an S970 next to me and I'm playing it as a type this. In AI Fingered mode, A#1 + E2 produces Bb b5 (Bb with a flattened 5th), which is what I'd expect. From a 'standing start', the keyboard chooses Bb rather than A# for the name of the chord. To get E/A#  (E over A#) I needed to set the split point to G# (you don't need to do this on the Genos with its extra keys) and play A# B E G#.

If you play A#1 + E2 in Fingered On Bass mode, it doesn't play a chord at all.

[valimaties]

Sorry, my mistake, because hurrying 
It was about E/Ab, not A#...

[janamdo]

AI Fingered mode helps you take other note in Bass than the chord played by the acmp...

The reason for playing another Bass note ( not default) on the keyboard with acmp is only for a different chord fingering then or... getting a other sound out of to the acmp?
There are only some "other bassnotes" allowed if they are musical to my ear then?

[mikf]

You play slash chords for the same reason you play any chord - because it is the most appropriate chords for the music. You can also just play the basic G chord and it will not sound too bad, maybe not perfect but that is a matter of balance between what you can easily manage in live playing and what is perfect. My guess is that your playing is not yet at the 'perfect ' stage so see my last comment.
Dont get confused between the chord and how you need to play it on an arranger. Arrangers have some limitations in reproducing unusual or advanced chords, and the designers have had to devise unconventional and sometimes quite difficult fingering methods to 'instruct' the keyboard how to behave to achieve these chords. Some of these are not easy for the learner, or even the more advanced player.
I am studying now the AI fingering mode, but G/A  is G chord is g-b-d, so this make no sense G/A because a is not belonging to the G chord (right?)
This statement tells me that you are not grasping the concept of advanced chords. It would be like saying that Gb9 makes no sense because it contains the note Ab which is not part of chord of G. But it is part of the chord Gb9, because that is exactly what a Gb9 chord is. An instruction to play chord G with and Ab added. In the same way G/A ior G /Bb are legitimate chords. They are similar but different chords from G because it is an instruction to play a chord G with the root replaced by A or Bb. The sound difference can be quite subtle. 
I also wonder if you are not getting away too deeply into something which you shouldn't be worrying about yet. It is indicated from your questions and statements that you are at the novice stage both musically and playing wise. Most people should not need to worry too much about things like slash chords or complicated fingering methods at that stage. There are mountains still to climb just mastering the 'easy' stuff.   
Mike

[janamdo]

Thanks,
Its a personal interest to master chords, but the subject is vast.
For composing with computer also needed.
Did not a professional study for chords , so it makes it harder to get grip on.

Well there are triads, 7,9,11,13 chords roughly
What is the concept of advanced chord ( first a definition of it )

"By 'more advanced' we mean chords that go slightly beyond the basic major, minor and seventh chords that most beginner guitarists know."

Its true i did not study those chord beyond basics systematically..     

[mikf]

 'Advanced' is a general term used to indicate less common usually altered chords and progressions.
Actually chords are very simple, not vast, because there are only 3 common chords, - major, minor and diminished.  Everything else is an altered or extended version of these and the alterations are generally obvious from the chord name. Eg 9th means add a 9th, 6th means add a 6th, b9 means add a flattened 9th. Sometimes there is more than one alteration. The numbers are just the note of the scale in that key.  One slight complication is that there are two common versions of a 7th you have to learn to recognize.   
The theory is simple, the difficult part is learning to play them seamlessly, without thinking. This is where the real work is because if you can't play a G, Em, Am, D progression rapidly and easily, almost without thinking, there is little point worrying about whether it should be G6, or Gb9, or G/A!
Dont overthink the theory, just learn to play the basics. Move on when it is mastered.
BTW - in many cases the extended chord designation is just a formal recognition of a note that is simultaneously happening in the melody, and doesn't have to be included in the chord because you are playing it anyway the melody.
Mike   

[janamdo]

I do have here good studymaterial for learning playing the basic chords
You are right, i totally agree with you, this is the first step : "just learn to play the basics. Move on when it is mastered".
Thanks for the summarize of the chords very helpful for further study
As i understand it now : alterations are for triads and chance a existing triad note into another note (sus, aug, dim triads)  and  extensions (adding note(s) to triads) in order to get 6, 7,9,11,13 chords

You wrote: not clear what you mean with this ?

BTW - in many cases the extended chord designation is just a formal recognition of a note that is simultaneously happening in the melody, and doesn't have to be included in the chord because you are playing it anyway the melody.

Jan

[overover]

BTW - in many cases the extended chord designation is just a formal recognition of a note that is simultaneously happening in the melody, and doesn't have to be included in the chord because you are playing it anyway the melody.
Mike

@janamdo
Hi Jan,

maybe this example explains what Mike is meaning here:

Assuming you play the C major chord (C - E - G) with your left hand, and the melody (right hand) plays the notes C, B, A, G one after the other.

Instead of constantly playing C major, you could alternatively play the following chords to these 4 melody notes:

C (C - E - G)
Cmaj7 (C - E - G - B)
C/A (= C major chord over the Bass note "A")    or play Am (A - C - E)   or play Am7 (A - C - E - G)
C/G (= C major chord over the Bass note "G")

You could also try to play the following with the "AI Fingered" setting:

C major chord: Play the notes C - E - G or simply play it with only two fingers: C - E

Then play the following "two-finger chords" (while watching the chord display):
B - C
A - C
G - C


Edit:
You can generally "force" a certain desired Bass note by playing this note as the lowest note of the chord and octaving it.

Example: For C/E (= C major chord over Bass note E) play the notes E - G - C - E.

But in the AI Fingered mode this so-called "Bass control" can in many cases be done much more easily (see above).


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[janamdo]

Hi Jan,

maybe this example explains what Mike is meaning here:

Unfortanely i don't understand this example yet : C/A ? and more
But if a melodynote is also a part of the chord , then a simpler chord notation can be done 

[mikf]

If the extended note is in the melody then there is usually no sound advantage to adding it to the lh chord because by playing it in the melody you are already adding it to the harmony. The chord - or harmony - is not just what you play in your lh, it's made up of everything you play.
Does this mean that the person writing the arrangement could have left it out of the chord notation - maybe yes. I don't know why they do it sometimes. They might just think it's technically correct, or for example jazz guitar players strumming accompaniment without melody often like to alter chords almost every beat so it's useful to them. There is no absolute rule here.
At the end of the day music is an art form with choices, it's not math or science. You should not try to over analyze. Does it sound good is what matters.

[Fred Smith]

Unfortanely i don't understand this example yet : C/A ? and more
But if a melodynote is also a part of the chord , then a simpler chord notation can be done

Only if you're using AI fingering. If you're using normal fingering, you need the correct chord notated.

Cheers,
Fred

[EileenL]

Just imagine you are an organ player and have a set of bass pedals. Using different bass notes with chords enhances the overall sound to a piece. The cord of C will often have an E bass note played and sounds very nice indeed. If playing something like Whiter Shade of Pale the bass pattern can be used by using AI fingering and really makes the song.

[mikf]

Fred
I am not referring to the AI ability to deduce chords the chord by rh  notes, but simply the fact that the harmony note is already being played, so there is little or no gain in  the effect if adding it also in the lh chord. Doesn't matter if it is AI mode or not.  That would not be true for a slash chord where the effect is from the bass, but it's largely true for extended chords.

[janamdo]

Just imagine you are an organ player and have a set of bass pedals. Using different bass notes with chords enhances the overall sound to a piece. The cord of C will often have an E bass note played and sounds very nice indeed. If playing something like Whiter Shade of Pale the bass pattern can be used by using AI fingering and really makes the song.

Thanks
Is it about adding a bass note to a chord then it becomes more clear
Then C/A makes sense
I will lolok at the example from Chris again, trying to get it clear what the idea here is