what is the difference between panel voices and XGlite voices?

[anon125]

is one better than the other?
e410 as both
thanks

[Janus]

The lite is simple just the standard voices
The pannel voice list is extended with mega, sa voices, en updated voices
you must have the list for your keyboard

[anon125]

i have not bought the keyboard yet.
so i still do not understand
thanks

[SeaGtGruff]

XG is Yamaha's extension of GM or General MIDI Level 1, also abbreviated GM1 to distinguish it from GM2 or General MIDI Level 2. GM has only 128 melodic voices and 1 drum kit, but XG adds the possibility of having 16,384 banks of voices. Yamaha created a number of standard XG voices; I'm not sure of the exact number, because different versions of XG had different numbers of voices-- that is, some versions added voices that weren't in previous versions-- but in the specifications for current models you'll generally see a reference to 480 XG voices.

There are two ways you can think about XG voices: (1) XG voices are "legacy" voices which use older sound samples than the more modern "panel" voices, so they generally don't sound as good as panel voices. (2) XG voices are used to ensure greater compatibility of song files and style files, since files that use XG voices should play on just about any XG-compatible keyboard. Note that some XG voices are considered to be standard, whereas others are considered to be "optional," meaning those optional XG voices can be omitted from a keyboard and the keyboard can still be said to be XG-compatible-- assuming it meets the other criteria for XG compatibility. XGlite is a "lite" or somewhat-reduced version of XG, such that some of the standard XG voices are optional in XGlite, and there are other reduced criteria, such as not having to respond to all of the Control Change messages that are required for full XG compatibility.

So what are panel voices? Basically, panel voices are "model-specific" voices which are not part of the XG voices, so two different XG-compatible keyboards might have different panel voices than each other. In practice, similar models tend to have a lot of the same panel voices, but there's no guarantee that one XG-compatible keyboard will have the same panel voices as another XG-compatible keyboard. What this means in a practical sense is that if you have song files and style files which are specifically designed for one series of keyboards, there's a good chance that many of the voices used in those files will be panel voices, and that the files might not be 100% compatible with another series. If that's the case, why use panel voices at all? Simply put, panel voices generally sound much better than XG voices. As said previously, they are newer voices and use better voice samples than the old XG voices.

[Toril S]

Excellent tutorial Michael! You are the best!!😀

[anon125]

thanks for that great explanation
our old e313 has these voices so when i found the 463 410 etal had them i wondered if they would sound as tinny as the e313 does.
newer ones may have better amplification. there is nowhere near here where i can listen to them.
our ancient psr 4600 sound fine to us.
thanks

[SeaGtGruff]

I've heard it said that the older PSR models used different chips than the PSR-E models do, and that the older chips sounded better-- richer and fuller. However, I have no experience with the older PSR models, so I can't say.

[pjd]

Great write-up, Michael!

I spent the afternoon plumbing the depths of XG vs. XGLite. Yamaha never released a separate spec for XGLite. Looking at the v2.0 XG spec, there are voices and effects that are required. Many XGLite voices/features are marked optional, so an XGLite implementation can be significantly stripped down.

Historically, Yamaha defined XG Level 1, XG Level 2, etc. providing for growth above the first standard XG. But, they didn't provide for getting smaller! (No level 0.) In order to integrate everything onto one chip with a microprocessor, too, they invented the XGLite concept.

Hope this helps — pj

[tekorei]

I was making myself the same topic question.

At least in the PSR E 463, I find panel voices much better than XG Lite voices, especially those sweet! and cool! voices, strings, acoustic pianos, hammonds, etc.

But amongst the XG Lite voices, there are voices that I can't find amongs panel voices, like 60s organs that sound (to my untrained ears and from I hear in Youtube videos) like VOX or FARFISA.

Also, I think I can get closer to a Rhodes electric piano sound using one of those XG Lite e piano voices, rather than the e piano panel voices.

[SeaGtGruff]

I think XG and XGlite voices can sound pretty good, especially if you take the time to tinker with the voice parameters a bit. Yamaha seems to set the default volumes rather low on the XGlite voice presets, which can make them sound a lot worse than they really are.

[tekorei]

Yes, with the 60s organ and the 60s E piano voices when added some overdrive, phaser, rotary or vibrato, you can get very convincing sounds.

Also, adding a second voice 1 octave lower or higher, and other simple tricks.

[Joe H]

There are fewer parameters that can be edited with XGLite.  I think the format was developed for cell phones and tablets.

Joe H

[mikf]

is one better than the other?
e410 as both
thanks

If it has both why does it matter??  You pick the one you like best.

[SeaGtGruff]

If it has both why does it matter??  You pick the one you like best.

I think the OP was just curious about the difference between them, most likely because of the way Yamaha segregates the panel voices and XGlite voices from each other instead of putting all acoustic piano voices in a category together, all electric piano voices together, all organ voices, acoustic guitar voices, bass guitar, and so on, regardless of whether a given voice is a "panel" voice, "XGlite" voice, "XG" voice, "GS" voice, "GM2" voice, or whatever. The way they're segregated like that seems very mysterious if you don't understand what the various classes of voices are all about.

There are fewer parameters that can be edited with XGLite.  I think the format was developed for cell phones and tablets.

Joe H

That's an interesting theory, but I think XGlite was developed for Yamaha's low-end (read, "inexpensive") keyboards. Aside from the fact that the XGlite subset of XG doesn't require all of the specifications which are required for a chip (and the keyboards that use it) to qualify as being XG compatible, and hence the chip costs less to manufacture, the XGlite voices seem to use only one element. Since the number of elements used by a voice will affect a keyboard's polyphony when using that voice, it's highly desirable to use voices that won't gobble up the tone generators on inexpensive models which have very low maximum polyphony (32 notes on the older PSR-E models, or 48 notes on newer PSR-E models).

[mikf]

The OP has been asking these kind of questions for a keyboard he was supposedly going to buy for a year.

[SeaGtGruff]

The OP hasn't added any more posts to this thread since January 10, the day after they started this thread.

The thread was resurrected the other day by a different user who was commenting that they think XG and XGlite voices can sound pretty good.

I realize it can be irritating when people ask questions, but the OP is hardly alone in asking questions about keyboards they don't own yet and are thinking about possibly buying.

If every member who asked a question about a keyboard they don't have were to be temporarily banned for 30 days for being irritatingly inquisitive, this forum would not be 1 member short, it would be many, many members short.

If asking questions about models one doesn't own yet is going to be considered a bannable offense, I think that fact should be clearly spelled out in the forum's rules so the members know not to do it.

[Joe H]

From the PSR433 owners manual ...

XGlite
As its name implies, "XGlite" is a simplified version of Yamaha's high-quality XG tone generation format.
Naturally, you can play back any XG song data using an XGlite tone generator. However, keep in
mind that some songs may play back differently compared to the original data, due to the reduced set of
control parameters and effects.

While XGLite Voices are used in the low-end arrangers, they are also used in cell phones and tablets for ring tones and such. The files are smaller due to Voices being limited to (I assume) 1 Element and there are less sound controllers used. They are also used for phone background music that we hear when we are put on hold.

Joe H