Step Recording Question

[NASAMike]

I've got a style that has different volumes for channels in different parts (e.g. channel 14 volume is 44 in Part A but 77 in Part B).  I was doing step recording with this style and it seems that it uses the first volumes it sees throughout the whole song. 

Is this the way its supposed to work?

It looks like it may not be picking up effect changes between the parts either.

Any help appreciated.

NASAMike

[mikf]

This is not a direct answer to you question, but I always wonder why anyone would want to step record a style? It's so easy to play the style chords, - you can slow the tempo down to snails pace so it's easy, there are simplified chord systems for beginners and it's a piece of cake to fix any errors on midi using the drop in method. It all seems so much easier than using step record that I cannot imagine why anyone would do it.
Mike

[ckobu]

If you entered the value correctly in Step mode, it should work well (A = 44, B = 77).
You can also enter values in the following way without Step recording, watch the video.

https://youtu.be/gJi_rqs-Mv8

[NASAMike]

If I have the chords and their duration step recording is really quick and exact (no midi artifacts due to being off by a smidge) and I record a whole song in just a few minutes and not have to fix anything.  Especially good if some of the chord changes are quick.

Also, in STEP REC the only inputs are the variation, the chord, and duration.  There is no volume or effect control there.  STEP REC basically tells the style what to do.

Thx,
NASAMike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
If you play chords for a song which is a lot easier than step record.------------------Cubase gets rid of the horrible smidgy bits in one sweep.
You choose your track and  then midi in drop down. Go to delete notes and set the length of the minute bits roughly with slider . press delete and all of those bits disappear and leaves the rest intact. In some instances you may have to make up for the tiny spaces left if it matters.
That normally works a dream.
It is so worth learning Cubase. Makes life a lot easier.
It's funny how the keyboard scatters all that rubbish all over the place and as you know it is frustrating

All the best
John

[mikf]

And if you are only playing chords, you can set the mode to full keyboard, then the chords can be played two handed which is not only much easier especially on slash chords or extended chords.

[Janus]

Realtime play works fine with simple songs in mineur or majeur and no more than 2 chords in a measure
But try it with a jazz song with 4 extended slash chords in one measure
A keyboard is a computer works with milli seconds nobody can play chords on exact time
You can see that in the tracks a lot off cuttoff little notes and you can hear that to
With a chordtrack you are enable to play free with 2 hands
When you play in a band you play your own part no need to play chords to guide the other players

[mikf]

This thread was about laying down a chord track to be the accompaniment on a midi. Of course the OP can do that any way he chooses, my point was that the alternative may be easier and worth trying. I doubt the OP was trying to lay down fast changes of extended chords, and if he was, then two handed, with the tempo slowed if necessary is still a pretty easy way. I must admit I have never noticed any 'sqidgy' sound at changes, due to missing timing when playing chords.
Traditional keyboard players have different styles, but playing solo piano or keyboard in small bands with a lead vocalist or lead instrument, I found playing chord lines full of big extended chords and fills to fatten the sound was actually very common.   
mike

[EileenL]

I have never tried Step record on anything and also understand that you can only use on board styles for this. If you slow the tempo down you will find it easier to play chords live and you will get used to
doing this which is a much better way to go. You don't need extra expense of buying extra programs to clean things up. You can always  use quantize to do this. 

[mikf]

Eileen - I think people probably go to their comfort zone. We are lifetime keyboard players so our first thought is to play it and avoid as much tedious computer style input as possible. We see playing the keyboard as fun and data input as work. People who are used to  imputing computer data input and a bit weak on playing might lean towards step record. You probably can get away with it for an accompaniment track but overall how you can play music with any feeling using step record escapes me.
Mike

[robinez]

Eileen - I think people probably go to their comfort zone. We are lifetime keyboard players so our first thought is to play it and avoid as much tedious computer style input as possible. We see playing the keyboard as fun and data input as work. People who are used to  imputing computer data input and a bit weak on playing might lean towards step record. You probably can get away with it for an accompaniment track but overall how you can play music with any feeling using step record escapes me.
Mike

it depends on the song / style you are creating, for instance basslines should be spot on for lots of songs and can be quite complicated to play. For instance when you create your own style for Jan Hammer - Crocket's Theme and you have to play in the bass, then it's almost impossible to play that live in the style if you want an exact copy of the bassline for your style. In such ways the step recording would be a welcome feature.

[mikf]

it depends on the song / style you are creating, for instance basslines should be spot on for lots of songs and can be quite complicated to play. For instance when you create your own style for Jan Hammer - Crocket's Theme and you have to play in the bass, then it's almost impossible to play that live in the style if you want an exact copy of the bassline for your style. In such ways the step recording would be a welcome feature.

Yes, I can see that might a special case. But the comment I made was for entering chords. Not that hard.
mike

[robinez]

Yes, I can see that might a special case. But the comment I made was for entering chords. Not that hard.
mike

true, chords can be easely played and quantised

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

hi
The only trouble with chords on the Genos is the flack it leaves behind when recording.
It is to do wth minute timing i believe as we are not machines.
Live chord input is easy and software like Cubase cleans up the horrible flack.
This can save quite a bit of time.
Even as Eileen suggest slowing down the music can help.
Step recording i find tedious and it is best to play with mistakes and tidy up in Cubase.
Also keeps your playing ability up to scratch.
Some Tunes as Robinez says need to have tighter bass lines.
In any case you can do whatever turns you on!!!  or whatever floats your boat;D


All the best
John

[mikf]

John, either my hearing or my sound system (or both) are bad and impaired, because I dont ever quantize or edit the accompaniment, but  have to confess that I never noticed any of these problems people are mentioning with minute timing on chords.  Maybe my standards are too low.
Actually, come to think of it, my wife has been telling me for years that I must be deaf .........but maybe that's more to do with me only half listening most of the time.
Mike

[EileenL]

Well I don't know what all this flack is about. I have done hundreds of recordings in Midi and Audio and never heard anything other than what I played. Bass lines have always played as they should whether original or written in. As long as your timing is good all works.

[mikf]

Eileen, - and I know one thing for sure, .....no one's timing and chord playing ever got better by working on step record.
Mike

[Toril S]

I never had a problem with any flack! Timing chords and melody line comes with practice. If I hear I was too slow changing the chord I do several recordings until I get it right😀

[EileenL]

Yes I agree Step recording dose not do the player any favors. If you don't try live play you will never get any where.

[Janus]

If you have never recorded midi to an external sequencer you may not know about so called flack if that is now the technical term for it. (Extra very short notes showing up in the recording, which when I used to record midi looked annoying, oddly did not seem to affect the sound quality in my case).

John

Yes you can hear that by attack voices like piano
Mute all channels leave only the piano channel on and listen
It is a hell of a job to remove them

Gr.Jan

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

hI
When you record a song live into the Genos sequencer and then do minor edits in cubase  the  playing sounds ok bar a few mis-timings  or small boo boos.
This can be adjusted easily as you know.

When you look the tracks that make up the style,you get notes scattered here and there . Only minute ones . I can hear the little glitches that is caused by this.
If you play generally , you do not notice them, but when recording it sticks out like a sore thumb.
All this is also easliy rectified, by selecting all notes and deleting by using a specific note length.
One press of the button and they all disappear. As i said you may have to fill some gaps in.
When you hear these glitches  it is like a small stutter when the instrument is playing.
If you dont use software like Cubase ,you will not notice.
You do get cleaner recordings by sorting the little blighters out.

All the Best
John

[Janus]

hI
When you record a song live into the Genos sequencer and then do minor edits in cubase  the  playing sounds ok bar a few mis-timings  or small boo boos.
This can be adjusted easily as you know.

When you look the tracks that make up the style,you get notes scattered here and there . Only minute ones . I can hear the little glitches that is caused by this.
If you play generally , you do not notice them, but when recording it sticks out like a sore thumb.
All this is also easliy rectified, by selecting all notes and deleting by using a specific note length.
One press of the button and they all disappear. As i said you may have to fill some gaps in.
When you hear these glitches  it is like a small stutter when the instrument is playing.
If you dont use software like Cubase ,you will not notice.
You do get cleaner recordings by sorting the little blighters out.

All the Best
John

Yes you remove all the short notes
but also the little up notes and pitchband notes
it takes a lot of  time to replace them
I use xgworks
First i set all chords on time
After that i remove the arranger parts
And make a rerecording with any style i want

Gr.Jan

Gr.Jan

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Janus
Cubase can deal with the problem very easily.
Maybe you have to fill in the missing blanks or lengthen some notes that do not quite reach the grid lines that can put timing out slightly.
I would have thought Cubase basic would do that.
If the players played a style and listened to it and then record a song and then listen to each style track separately ,they would notice the difference unless they are a machine.
If you want to keep a good library of your songs it is best to to a good job in my view or the best you can.
If anyone takes Genos songs to a pro mixer or masterer, they do not want the flack in there as i read somewhere some time back.
If you just play gigs out then it does not matter, nobody would hear differences on a p.a. with the atmosphere in the room.
It does notice on recordings. Not if you are a Metallica fan though!!

All the best
John

[EileenL]

Most Styles will use Mega voices and these of course will have extra notes and velocities in as that is the way they work. Try using these voices on a style that has been converted from a different keyboard and they will sound like a series of squeaks but on Yamaha they will sound fine.

I have to apologize to our original poster as like always this thread has gone way of subject.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
No, It has not gone way off subject as this is a discussion about step record that gives a precise positon.
Just a suggestion made that playing chords live is much quicker, but can leave artifacts. There is an easy way to rectify in Cubase.
All related and hoepfully passes over some knowledge for what it is worth. Being little amounts.
All adds up and hopefully.
I tried step recording on the Genos ,but find that a pain.
Write down in succession all chords to a song or take note of of the sheet music then fire away as you can even slow down the input tempo down.
I reckon the more you practice chords the easier your timing gets and also confidence.
I must admit i still hate the red record button!!!

All the best
John

[mikf]

As I said, I never noticed this on a recording, and even went back to listen carefully to couple of my older recordings and still couldn't hear any problem. Eileen may have explained that. Since I use only Yamaha I wouldn't get the mega voice problem, and after playing for over 65 years, my timing should be pretty solid by now!
Mike

[EileenL]

Like you Mike I have been recording from Yamaha keyboards for many years and have never had problems with artifacts flack, or anything else.
   The member asking the question was clearly using his keyboard for step recording so why try to blind him with science. Do we even know if he uses Cubase or knows what it is.

[Janus]

In real time you don't hear it only with a recording  you can see and hear it
try to make a recording with only a piano in the style mute all the other channels
upload it as a midi file and let me have a look and hear on it

Gr.Jan

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Janus is spot on

All the best
John