Genos 1.4 - Thank you Yamaha

[KeyboardByBiggs]

This particular compressor does not provide one with many fine tuning options.

As stated previously the Genos "compressor" is providing a particular style, or implementation, of compression. This technique is known in recording studio lingo as "New York Compression." It's a perfectly valid technique but does not provide the same outcome as straight, or standard compression (for lack of a better term).

Standard compressors (especially mix buss, or finalizing ones) offer an effect often described as "gluing" a track together making it more cohesive, tight, and/or dynamic. I believe this is what you were hearing on your Tyros Abby based on how you describe it.

If this is the effect you desire I'd highly recommend the simple add on of a quality compressor between the Genos and your PA. Even a top-of-the-line, single rack space, studio-style model only weighs a couple of pounds and is not large at all. The end result may be more than worth it, especially if it really lights things up for you.

For what it's worth, I've been playing analog and digital keyboards my whole life and running a recording studio for over 20 years. I've never had so much of challenge trying to make things sound right as I have with the Genos. I don't think it's bad, just different.

I've had to try a LOT of different tweaks and settings and many different speaker setups to finally get the sound out of it I was looking for. Probably not something the average home player would ever trifle with or even notice necessarily, but when you're looking for a high-performance sound you're used to getting on stage, it's kind of critical, a no-compromise situation.

So, to Abby and others digging for that certain something, that sound you're looking for out of your Genos, you're not alone...and it's in there, you just have to find it.

[Pianoman]

Hi Abby :

Very interesting to hear you have been working in a Belgian pro recording studio in the past.👋

In which recording studio('s) were you active there ?
A long time ago ?

Babette

Hello Babette.

I assisted in a studio called Studio Piramide outside Brussels, around 1988-89.
I was a session musician and often called upon to fill in songs that were deemed
weak and lacking body, to fatten them up a bit.

I would often go hang out there even when not needed, just to see what the
sound people were doing and how they were doing it.

I would typically add some piano arrangements or a Saxophone solo between lyrics etc.
It was interesting creative work and I should maybe have stuck with it.

Other parts I used to do on an Atari 1040, using Steinberg sequencer software
to run a Yamaha DX7 and an Akai 1000 I think it was called.

It was interesting work and I should maybe have stuck with it, but my wife needed
sunshine, Sangria and the sea, so we moved to Ibiza in 1992.

Best Regards.
Abby

[Lee Batchelor]

With all this compressor talk, it makes me wonder if my settings are the reason I can't get a consistent bass sound out of my Genos the way I could with my T5. I use a modified version of the EQ GOLD settings, but my bass is either weak or too much.

Note: I am in the process of exploring the amplifier I use to drive my homemade subwoofer. Currently, I'm using a Behringer iNuke6000, which is a flat PA amp with high and low pass filters. I'm thinking of trying out a Gallien-Kruger bass guitar amp, which I suspect will have a far better bass contour. Therefore, the Genos compressor may not be the source of my issues. Sorry to have drifted the "Genos 1.4 - Thank you Yamaha" topic.

[Wouter1972]

Without polluting the topic too much I would like to express my thanks for having a Tyros 5 and for Yamaha making the product in the first place

Wouter

[Pianoman]

With all this compressor talk, it makes me wonder if my settings are the reason I can't get a consistent bass sound out of my Genos the way I could with my T5. I use a modified version of the EQ GOLD settings, but my bass is either weak or too much..

About after an hour of playing last night my Subwoofer stopped midway through a song.
I first thought that I had blown it, so I was forced to excuse myself and stop for about 15
minutes before restarting it.

It worked after that, but the bass drum and other bass notes kept increasing and
decreasing in volume after that.

I don't know if you still remember Lee that I blew the woofer of my JBL mains when I
was using the EQ Gold settings and then touched the compressor volume, which jumped to
maximum,  about 2 months ago.

That was before update 1.40 when the volumes would jump when you touch a knob.

I had to buy a new 15 inch woofer that costed me 225 Euros.
Luckily a friend who is an occasional performer had an identical unit that I could
borrow till mine was fixed..

After apologising for being off topic I started the compressor subject in the hope that
someone has better knowledge about the workings of this particular type of compressor,
and would offer some of their settings.

The presets unfortunately are not very effective.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[beykock]

Hi Abby :

Great feedback about the Pyramide Studio in Beersel/Brussels which is still alive.
A new owner now though. See their website.

THANK YOU !👍

In the past they made 2 masters for me. It was in 1984.
Great studio ... and ... at very reasonable prices. I remember well.🐯

Back to the Genos compressor.

Now we have read more people are not so pleased with the quality of the Genos compressor, they say.

It looks like Yamaha have to create a new update to fix it.😧
( If possible ? ).

BTW, a friend wants to sell her T5/76 XL.
If you might be intersted let me know and you can contact her directly.
I know it is in mint condition. Only home use.
She is no longer interested in making music.
I know her father bought it brand new.

Best regards, Babette

[Pianoman]

Hello Babette.

Thanks for the suggestion but I can't afford to buy another keyboard now, so
soon after buying the Genos.

I'm the sole provider for my family and have been so since 1990.
My son is studying in Norway and that is costing me an arm and a leg.

I also have to travel to my country this November and that will take away
the other arm and leg.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[beykock]

No problem, Abby.
Indeed, it was just a suggestion.🐰

Babette

[Lee Batchelor]

Abby, I do remember you mentioning your blown JBL woofer. Those woofers are extremely robust and underrated. Something terrible in the settings must have got out of hand to cause such an overload.

I just hope I can achieve a more even bass line in my syles. I've never really liked the mega voice bass sounds. They are either too soft or too punchy, regardless of how realistic everyone thinks they sound. For gigging, we need steady bass velocity. We can't have them jumping all over the map. The toms and kick drums are really overbearing on the Genos, as well. I have to route them from Sub 1-->a channel on my mixer where I can control them. Otherwise, they pound the daylights out of you.

[beykock]

Hi Lee :

This Genos compressor issue seems to become a problem for giggers.

I wonder if Yamaha are informed yet and how they can and/or will be able to solve it.

Babette

[ckobu]

Babette,

I'm gigger, every weekend I'm at the show. I cannot see or hear any problems in Compressor. Before I used Tyros4, now I play on Genos. At the performance of Genos there is much more beautiful and fuller sound than Tyros4.
It's a big mistake for musicians to buy expensive and high quality keyboard, while simultaneously using the middle-class loadspeaker and mixer. He simply cannot reproduce the sound of modern arrangements. Then it seems to be a problem in the keyboard. The problem lies in something else, not Compresor or EQ Genos.

[Lee Batchelor]

I agree that the Genos has a stellar sound. The only problem I have is with inconsistent bass volume. It seems I must edit each registration to get just the right amount of bass - something I never had to do with the T5. Something changed.

I don't use second rate sound gear as can be seen in my signature line. I do believe though, that my subwoofer amplifier may be the wrong one for reproducing bass. That is an ongoing issue for me. I am going to try out a Gallien-Kruger bass head for my subwoofer and see if that solves my bass problem. I'm optimistic that it should work because, despite my skill and history of building loudspeakers, I don't think Yamaha got it wrong when they designed the bass output in the Genos, mega voice bass notwithstanding.

[ckobu]

Good and good low-frequency sound (Kick and bass guitar) can only be achieved on a good and linear PA system. Adding the Bas Woofer that does not fit and is not well matched with the satellites always spoils the sound image. Usually, we have more harm than good. I do not say that is the case with you, but you have to think about it.

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed 100 percent, ckobu. I designed and built my own subwoofer. It measures quite flat. I tried it out in the fall of 2018 with a Gallien-Kruger micro head and Epiphone bass guitar. It sounded amazing, so proper bass reproduction is possible with my sub. My two Bose L1 Compacts roll off fairly steep at 65 Hz. I have the low pass filter set in the Behringer amp at 70 Hz. The blend should work well. At this point, I would say about 60% of my registrations sound good. The rest are either way too boomy or the bass is thin.

We seem to be drifting way off-topic here. I'll report my findings in a new topic after trying out a dedicated bass amp. Apologies to the OP . Thanks for everyone's patience. This is why, at the end of the day, we are one huge family on this forum. With respect,

Lee

[beykock]

I would like to thank both gentlemen for their comments.👍

It seems there is nothing wrong with the Genos compressor but it could be a PA problem instead, right ?

I also understand the total sound quality of the Genos has been improved compared to the Tyros, right ?

Best regards, Babette

[reya]

Hi Babette,

My personal opinion is that the Revo drums are a big improvement, but the voices are still a bit thin and cold (digital) as on Tyros. But that is just me.
Has anyone tried using an accordeon voice on Genos  and then have someone playing a real accoustic (non digital) accordeon in the same room..... Be prepared to be blown away by the difference ...

But Babette, in another post you wrote ...

quote
'Based on the Genos comments, complaints and observations of members, I was confused.
Up to now I have still question marks.

As of tomorrow I will do my own research together with my dealer.
I will no longer bother you and/or other members.
I will go my own way.
I will take all the time I need to make a final decision.
If I am not convinced I will not sell my TY5/76.

For your information : I am playing Yamaha arrangers since 2001 and I have always been a dedicated follower of Yami's.
Amen.

Take care,

Babette'
end of quote

I wonder Babette, have you been to the dealer in the meantime and done the research of your own??
What are your findings ?

Thanks

Rudy

[beykock]

Hi Rudy :

No Genos for the time being.
Maybe in the near future, who knows.
I like the Genos very much but I love my T5/76.

Best regards, Babette

[EileenL]

It probably would be best if you went and tried Genos for yourself Babette and then you would know what people are talking about and would not need to ask so many questions. Genos as it is
dose the job it is supposed to and very well to. Compared to the amount sold only a very few are asking for it to do more.

[Pianoman]

Babette,

I'm gigger, every weekend I'm at the show. I cannot see or hear any problems in Compressor. Before I used Tyros4, now I play on Genos.

I too am a performer ( I'm not fond of the word gigger) and perform 6 nights a week in
4 hotels.
I do six months of intensive performances for a total of 180, followed by a less intensive
program of 3 to 4 performances  a week that brings it all to a total of about 260 per year.

I have to be on top of my game at all times without exception, and it is not easy to do
that with a keyboard that can't be brought under control.

One bad performance and you're out on the street, as it is really a dog eat dog
competitive environment that I live in over here.

I understand the determination of some of us to be loyal to an inanimate object no matter
what is said or done,  but my first post regarding this subject on page 1 was very simple.

I asked for suggestions from anyone who has managed to get the compressor settings
work in a satisfactory way.

Of course there are no problems with the compressor, nobody said that there are any.
And one cannot hear any problems either because the compressor doesn't seem to be
doing anything at all anyway, other than raising or lowering the general volume.

Apart from the usual "Genos is a different animal " and  "Compressor good, Genos good "
responses, there have not been any suggestions so far, which is what I have originally
asked for.

So I will ask again.

Any Suggestions  Anyone On Compressor Settings For Genos?

Best Regards.
Abby.

[beykock]

Hi Abby :

I believe nobody here is able to answer your question.😧

It looks to be a very complex issue that only might be answered by Yamaha if the Genos manual cannot help you out.😱

PJ explained why the compressor of the Genos is different  and 2 other performers ( giggers ) say it might be a PA problem but it is definitely not a Genos compressor issue, they say.

IMHO right now there is only one solution : try to find the best sound by ear. A sound check.
I see no other alternative for the time being.

Bye for now, Babette

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Abby,

Compressor settings are dependant on the PA, are they not? Although, I suppose one could argue that either the PA reproduces a full sound spectrum or it doesn't.

Please let us know where you find the Genos to be weak, and I'll play with some settings. Thanks....Lee

[soundphase]

I too am a performer ( I'm not fond of the word gigger) and perform 6 nights a week in
4 hotels.
I do six months of intensive performances for a total of 180, followed by a less intensive
program of 3 to 4 performances  a week that brings it all to a total of about 260 per year.

I have to be on top of my game at all times without exception, and it is not easy to do
that with a keyboard that can't be brought under control.

One bad performance and you're out on the street, as it is really a dog eat dog
competitive environment that I live in over here.

I understand the determination of some of us to be loyal to an inanimate object no matter
what is said or done,  but my first post regarding this subject on page 1 was very simple.

I asked for suggestions from anyone who has managed to get the compressor settings
work in a satisfactory way.

Of course there are no problems with the compressor, nobody said that there are any.
And one cannot hear any problems either because the compressor doesn't seem to be
doing anything at all anyway, other than raising or lowering the general volume.

Apart from the usual "Genos is a different animal " and  "Compressor good, Genos good "
responses, there have not been any suggestions so far, which is what I have originally
asked for.

So I will ask again.

Any Suggestions  Anyone On Compressor Settings For Genos?

Best Regards.
Abby.

Not sure as I'm not in front of the Genos currently : It's perhaps possible for you to assign the legacy Compressor effect present in the legacy folder as chorus effect on all the parts Rx,L, style, multipads. It would not be a perfect solution as you could no longer use 'chorus section' for chorus effect, but, if the Genos allows you to choose all kinds of effect for the chorus or the reverb effect sections, it could be a way for you to see if you can retrieve the sound you like.

[Lee Batchelor]

The T5 compressor settings are in the Genos? Where? I didn't know that .

[mikf]

I imagine the vast majority of arranger users do not mess with compressors. In fact, the vast majority probably don't mess much with sounds at all, happily accepting them as they come 'out of the box'.
That doesn't mean that what is being said about the compressor is wrong, just that it is not important to most.
I guess Abby often plays quite plays quite heavy party music in loud environments, and has different needs from the mainstream Genos user. I am sure there are others like him, but they are a tiny percentage of arranger players, so I think he may have problems getting input from others on this forum.
Mike

[pjd]

Hi folks --

At the risk of being repetitive, there isn't a single "Genos compressor." Please study the DSP FX routing diagram on page 124 of the Reference Manual. The Master Compressor is a single stage in a rather long chain of signal processing.

A compressor algorithm can be assigned to a DSP unit just like a reverb type, flanger, whatever. The "problem" with the Master Compressor is that the compressor effect type is fixed and is a parallel compression algorithm (as I mentioned before). The Genos does not allow one to change the effect type of the Master Compressor to a different algorithm, such as one the classic, legacy compressors supported by earlier Tyros models.

Again, as I mentioned earlier, a parallel compressor is most suitable for mastering a sound recording. It is subtle and is not a master blaster for EDM or whatever. Genos supports a larger number of assignable DSP units to Style parts. If one studies the Genos factory styles, they will notice widespread use of classical compression effect types on individual parts.

BTW, Abby, I know you grok this already due to your studio experience. I'm just trying to post background info to help other readers.

All the best -- pj

[pjd]

Not sure as I'm not in front of the Genos currently : It's perhaps possible for you to assign the legacy Compressor effect present in the legacy folder as chorus effect on all the parts Rx,L, style, multipads. It would not be a perfect solution as you could no longer use 'chorus section' for chorus effect, but, if the Genos allows you to choose all kinds of effect for the chorus or the reverb effect sections, it could be a way for you to see if you can retrieve the sound you like.

Soundphase has the right approach. However, I would recommend assigning one of the legacy compression DSP effect types to the Variation effect block. The Variation block is system-wide when it is in System mode. Then it is system-wide just like the Chorus and Reverb blocks. Again, please check out the diagram on page 124 of the Reference Manual. By using the Variation block, you don't have to give up the Chorus (or Reverb) block.

Abby, I don't know how this would affect your current registrations and how much pain it will cause to implement. I'm sorry, but the movers took my Genos away today! Otherwise, I would be experimenting...

All the best -- pj

[Toril S]

I had a good time reading this thread. So now I will say a BIG thanks to Yamaha, and an even bigger thanks to you guys and gals, you made my day

[soundphase]

Soundphase has the right approach. However, I would recommend assigning one of the legacy compression DSP effect types to the Variation effect block. The Variation block is system-wide when it is in System mode. Then it is system-wide just like the Chorus and Reverb blocks. Again, please check out the diagram on page 124 of the Reference Manual. By using the Variation block, you don't have to give up the Chorus (or Reverb) block.

Abby, I don't know how this would affect your current registrations and how much pain it will cause to implement. I'm sorry, but the movers took my Genos away today! Otherwise, I would be experimenting...

All the best -- pj

Not sure. I think 'variation' can only be used on style parts. 'reverb' and 'chorus' are available for all parts including Rx,L parts.

[jwyvern]

Not sure as I'm not in front of the Genos currently : It's perhaps possible for you to assign the legacy Compressor effect present in the legacy folder as chorus effect on all the parts Rx,L, style, multipads. It would not be a perfect solution as you could no longer use 'chorus section' for chorus effect, but, if the Genos allows you to choose all kinds of effect for the chorus or the reverb effect sections, it could be a way for you to see if you can retrieve the sound you like.

It would be an interesting work around but Chorus can only access a limited range of effects and Compression is not one of those permitted effects. (Or, more accurately I can not find a way to access them including within Legacy.)

John

[ckobu]

.....................
Any Suggestions  Anyone On Compressor Settings For Genos?
...............

Unfortunately, I cannot help you much. My settings EQ and Comp are in the pictures but I doubt it will suit you. On my PA system it just works great (EQ on MIXER is flat) and I have nothing else to add. I'm sorry you're not happy, but as I said, maybe the cause of the problem should be sought somewhere else, not Genos. Maybe ... I'm just guessing.

@soundphase, @pjd 
The Variation effect can be set as an Insert (affects only one channel in the Style) or as a System (affects on all channels). Variation effect can be accurately adjusted in the Style Editor for each drum element.
Abby has mentioned somewhere in the forum that Rock'nRoll rhythms have no power as with Tyros 3. I've shown on the video that in a couple of moves we can adjust every rhythm to one's own taste. And of course, how to add the Compressor as a Variation Effect. Such a procedure will rarely result in some improvement and I do not do that either. This is just for video needs.

https://youtu.be/5gVKZ_AS3Vk

ckobu

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