New Realtime arranger software announcement

[groovyband.live]

I am convinced ( by you ) their quality and service is superb but for me (  and perhaps also for others  ) this program is too expensive.
That is the only reason why I will not buy it ( for the time being ).

Babette,

Might we ask what would you consider a fair price for this product?

Regards.

[Henni]

Hi Babette,

I saw a few posts back that GBL currently offers a 50% discount till end January. If anyone is wise, they might seriously consider making use of this. Not sure if this would ever be repeated again.

I might be wrong, but as far as I can determine Varranger with all the upgrades is not much cheaper. As a programmer myself, I can appreciate what went into creating GBL or Varranger or any other similar software. For me personally GBL came close to turning my PSR S770 into a Genos/SX900 so I am stunned.

Plus I've spent a lot of money on style creation/modifying software and nothing comes close to what could be achieved by GBL let alone the ease with which this could be done.

I really & honestly believe that with some ingenuity a lot could be done with the demo version alone - from making studio quality recordings right down to performing live with it. The program closes and re-opens in a flash and I promise that I could use it live even with the current demo time restrictions.

All the best,

Henni

[Henni]

I installed the demo of GbL and saved the Midi settings according to the instructions. There are 2 things that surprise me as a beginner:

L1 cannot be heard and the lead voices are very limited. Can you give me a hint?

For example, can you load and edit the sound from the Ch & Ch pack?

I would be very happy to receive an answer.

I would like to answer over here as others might find it interesting also.

1. Select TOGGLE ACMP/LD
2. Click En button for L1
3. Now it will play - set the volume using the slider globally or
4. Long click on the Bal knob (it turns green) and then adjust locally.
5. You can select ANY onboard voice for ANY lead voice.
6. On the paid version, save voice selection for current variation by long clicking on the OTS button for that variation
7. Be sure to select OTS link to on for different lead voices for each of the 8 variations!
8. To change any of the lead voices, click on the voice (grey=global change) or long click on the voice (green=local change only) and browse in any other voice of your choice.

Global=For all parts
Local= For that specific variation only

And no, I am NOT overly busy & I do not mind at all addressing any questions you might have. I am sure Groovyband.live will ad much detail to anything I suggest as I am on a steep learning curve myself.

Hope this helps.

All the best my friend,

Henni

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[beykock]

Hi Mr. GB :

Sorry, I do not know your name.😎

A fair price ... no idea.😦

I do not know your soft yet.
BUT ... Henni is our best source and there is no doubt in my mind if Henni is convinced.😀

Downloaded the trial version but had no time to try it yet.

My favourite DAWS : XGW and Sonar Platinum.

What is your best price for the top version ?

Best regards, Babette

[markstyles]

Henne; I want to thank you for posts regarding Groovyband.live   Since you've  uploaded programs you have made yourself, and from the quality of your music and comments, I realize you are an intelligent talented individual.   I emailed GBL.  They do not make a Mac version, and it's probably not in the cards for the immediate present. (they are a small company).   But you really have peaked my interest.  I like to use the Tyros/Genos more as a composing device.  I have trouble playing the song, and remembering to hit all the buttons, registrations, MPADS, mains, etc in real-time..   

My first Arranger kbd was a Tyros 3. For a while I considered buying a 2nd Tyros, and running the two live. but too expensive.  I have worked out a process, using Logic Pro, to record as many different style tracks as I want. keeping sync. 

I am in the process of buying a Windows tablet and GBL.  Your posts here are strong enough for me to have confidence in it.   I have bought many additional software products over the years, to use with Genos, but most are too simplex, or much too complicated..  Rapid Composer, Orb, Synfire, etc. The only other software I use regularly (since the 90's) is Band-In-A-Box.  I primarily use it to work out Chord progressions, While many of their styles, are not to my taste, some parts generated are workable.  But it is ace at constructing a chord progression, trying a ton of variations, chord substitutions, etc.  Once I've got the chord progression I like, I pick the 'church style'.  It outputs full legato chords.  Then I put that in my DAW (Logic Pro X) and use it as the chord detect track.

I look forward to more of your posts. And I'm sure I'll be asking you some questions myself. 

Thanx for all the contributions you have made to PSRTutorial over the years. I appreciate them.

[Bill]

For those that would like to give the Demo a try you need to setup the MIDI on your keyboard first (as stated in the GBL Instruction)  However it can be very confusing, HENCE  I had included the setup file below.

The GBL would appear to be OK BUT  you will need a Touch Sensitive Windows Computer to use it.
The mouse does work but without a touch screen my take is forget it.


https://app.box.com/s/66rd8tqhy70j5o79dldr4zo1esv6gtv5

You will need to load the MSU file into your keyboard.

[groovyband.live]

To build upon previous Henni's answer:

In GBL any parameter can be either global or local. Global parameters have a white (or light grey depending how you consider it!) background. Local parameters have a green background, so that you can always immediately tell which is which. You toggle between global/local with a right click (long press on touch displays) on the knob/slider/button/field.

"Local" means:

A) For ACMP parts: a different value for any style section (intros, endings, mains, ...)
B) For LEAD parts: a different value for any OTS

"Global" means:

Valid everywhere if not a specific local choice is made.

Among the parameters there is also the "Enable" button. It lets that part play or not.
By default all the factory supplied OTSes have the L1 part disabled. If you want to hear it you have to enable it and then possibly resave into an OTS slot (you have eight). You can enable it in an OTS but not in another. Or make it global in all of them and decide once for all.
You can also have L1÷3 + R1, or R1÷4, or any combination in between. The partition is selectable independently for each OTS.

Each OTS can be linked to any MAIN (i.e: MAIN3-->OTS1), you decide what main points to what OTS. Different MAINs can point to the same OTS. You can copy MAINs and OTSes, reorder them as you like, and the links will be preserved. Until you decide to change them.

For ACMP parts the Enable button, localised for each section as appropriate, will allow to pre-program "part mutes" that come and go automatically whenever you select a section.

No need to fiddle with "mutes" while performing. You have 8 MAINS to store your pre-programmed active parts (and as many localised parameters as you want) to fit all your needs for a given song (chorus, verse, ...). No need to touch the "registration" concept for this.

Just directly program the style itself to fit like a glove to any given song!

[Henni]

Hi MarkStyles,

Thank you for your positive feedback. You will not regret purchasing this product. I am having a lot of fun with it.

Keep well my friend,

Henni

[groovyband.live]

A fair price ... no idea.😦

What is your best price for the top version ?

Currently we have a promotional sale: -50%.

149€ for the Standard, 199€ for the Pro, 249€ for the Platinum.

Consider what you pay for a single expansion pack from Yamaha, and the bang for your bucks you get. Still too expensive?

[groovyband.live]

For those that would like to give the Demo a try you need to setup the MIDI on your keyboard first (as stated in the GBL Instruction)  However it can be very confusing, HENCE  I had included the setup file below.

The GBL would appear to be OK BUT  you will need a Touch Sensitive Windows Computer to use it.
The mouse does work but without a touch screen my take is forget it.


https://app.box.com/s/66rd8tqhy70j5o79dldr4zo1esv6gtv5

You will need to load the MSU file into your keyboard.

Bill,

thanks for the great service you have done to those who might be interested in giving a try to GBL

The (do it ONCE and then FORGET) initial midi setup is actually a bit scary. This is due to the convoluted midi implementation we have on Yamaha arrangers, which certainly is much older than the contemporary concept of DAW, computer music, and interoperability of SW and HW.

If you plan to use the software seriously the touch screen is mandatory, we agree.
Here (https://www.groovyband.live/ui/1867/) we discuss the various input methods available, and the merits of each one.

[beykock]

Prices look OK during the 50% discount period.
Up to January 31, 2020, right ?

What will happen after this period ?
A new update or an upgrade ?

Plse advise. Thank you !

Best wishes,
Babette

[groovyband.live]

Prices look OK during the 50% discount period.
Up to January 31, 2020, right ?

What will happen after this period ?
A new update or an upgrade ?

Plse advise. Thank you !

Best wishes,
Babette

Babette,

when the promotion ends (January 31^st), the prices return to the normal level. Nothing new under the sun!

The current promotion not only cuts the prices by 50%, but it also gives you the right to have for free all the updates we will issue for a full year. And hence stay current for no additional cost.
And should you "later" (= till the end of 2020!) decide to upgrade to an higher edition (Pro, Platinum). You still retain the current promotional prices (= you pay the difference of the current discounted prices, not the full ones).

So you can spend now only 149€ (for the Standard edition) and decide a fuller commitment only later, without losing the current discounts.

[rikkisbears]

The only other software I use regularly (since the 90's) is Band-In-A-Box.  I primarily use it to work out Chord progressions, While many of their styles, are not to my taste, some parts generated are workable.  But it is ace at constructing a chord progression, trying a ton of variations, chord substitutions, etc.

Hi Mark,
sorry for going off topic, but do you use the included Real Band software at all for generating biab style tracks.

[rikkisbears]

Babette,

when the promotion ends (January 31^st), the prices return to the normal level. Nothing new under the sun!

The current promotion not only cuts the prices by 50%, but it also gives you the right to have for free all the updates we will issue for a full year. And hence stay current for no additional cost.
And should you "later" (= till the end of 2020!) decide to upgrade to an higher edition (Pro, Platinum). You still retain the current promotional prices (= you pay the difference of the current discounted prices, not the full ones).

So you can spend now only 149€ (for the Standard edition) and decide a fuller commitment only later, without losing the current discounts.

Hi GB,
But what happens after the first year of free updates. What do you charge if the program gets upgraded in the following year, and the year after that,  how much do you charge for those upgrades.

Band in a Box for instance gets upgraded every year, I pay the discounted rate for the upgrade depending on whether I just want to buy the program itself, or whether I choose to buy all the new live tracks , styles etc.
Sometimes I do sometimes I don't.

VArranger, Dan has given free upgrades for the last 10 years or so, taking it from being able to play only Ketron styles, thru to being able to play ketron, Roland , Yamaha ,Korg, and even Technics.
Admittedly he has added sound packages which one has to pay for if they want to use them, but , they are optional. One has a choice of what soundsource they choose to use.
I don't use it as an arranger, I've only ever used it as a source for creating midi files of styles  to convert them across to my Korg keyboards over the years .

So basically what is your fee structure for upgrades over the next number of years. Probably would be handy for potential buyers to know.

[beykock]

Interesting information, thank you.

Do not know if your prog offers me what I am looking for.
Time will tell after testing the trial version ( maybe wthin a couple weeks from now, I hope ).

Wished an upgraded XGWorks should be made but I am afraid ( sure ) it will never happen though.

XGW is the best midi sequencer ever made for Yamaha keyboards ( IMO ) but SFF2 voices cannot be used and need SFF1 conversion ... the same applies to non *.sty extensions.
There are more XGW issues ... last update : 2002 !

Best regards, Babette

[rikkisbears]

Hi Babette,
totally agree with you as far as xg works goes.

I don't use it for recording songs though, so not aware of issues regarding voices.

I used it to convert psr styles across to Korg. Love that it will actually load them and I end up with a midi file.

Even used it to edit some psr pads for my sx.  and appears to work ok.

Really wish yamaha had not discontinued it.

[Henni]

Using Groovy.Band Live! to modify styles

For those interested, the following styles were modified from the original versions using GBL as a style editor: (I've removed all other links to these on this thread)

70sScatLegendGvy

ChoirSoundtrackGvy

MOR16BeatGvy

50sRock&RollGvy

00sBoyBand1Gvy

90sCoolBalladGvy

90sRockBalladGvy

HollywoodGospelGvy

GospelBalladGvy

GospelBalladV2

6-8SoulGvy

Find these original styles on your demo version for direct comparison. The above will highlight what could be achieved with GBL should you feel just a little creative.

When you compare the GBL price with similar products, make sure you can also do same as for me personally, this is one of the best features of this product.

[beykock]

Hi Rikki :

If this ( new ) GBL program should have the same ( and/or additional ) XGW features I am convinced all XGW users will buy GBL at the present list price - 50%.
Comparable to the XGW price.

And last but not least ... there are still many XGW users as we all know. 

For many years I ( and many other Yamaha XGWorks users ) am begging for an XGW Upgrade. How many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry ...

Best regards ... thank you for your positive comments !

Babette

[groovyband.live]

Hi GB,
But what happens after the first year of free updates. What do you charge if the program gets upgraded in the following year, and the year after that,  how much do you charge for those upgrades.

So basically what is your fee structure for upgrades over the next number of years. Probably would be handy for potential buyers to know.

Our policy is:

A) Maintenance (= bug fixes) and "minor" updates are FREE
B) "Major" updates are paid, although with significant discounts for existing users

Until now, although we have significantly updated the program features (some others would call these "major" updates), see the changelog https://www.groovyband.live/changelog/2334/, we have NOT charged our customers.

When we will charge something for a major update, then we will determine the exact pricing.

[beykock]

Hi GB :

You are familiar with Yamaha's XGWorks ( 1995 - 2002 ), am I right ?

Do you think it is possible to add some XGW features to GBL or is my dream/wish called " A Bridge Too Far " ? 

If required, I can email you the XGWorks Manual ( pdf / approx. 5 MB ). Too big to be uploaded here though.

Henni is doing a superb job for all of us.

It looks like most members of this forum ( more than 5000 people ) are very pleased with Henni's conversions.
Why should a winning horse have to be killed ? 

Thank you for your reply.

Best Wishes,

Babette
The Hopeful

[Bill]

Hi GBL

Just a simple question that I have not been able to work out from the manual.

How do I select a voice on the Keyboard that is NOT an XG Voice.

People like us have fantastic keyboards (Genos, SX, PSRS, Tyros)  that have hundreds of very good voices. We then spend hundreds of pounds more buying Voice Expansion packs.  If we can no longer use all of these with the software it has to be a BIG backward step.

Regards

Bill

[groovyband.live]

Hi GB :

You are familiar with Yamaha's XGWorks ( 1995 - 2002 ), am I right ?

No, you are wrong. Never used it.

Do you think it is possible to add some XGW features to GBL or is my dream/wish called " A Bridge Too Far " ? 

That last bridge was NEVER taken by the US Army. The airborne parachute division that attacked the bridge (later reinforced with ground troops) was immediately counterattacked, overrun and finally had to retreat with enormous losses. The bridge, and with it the whole Holland, remained in Wehrmacht's hands till the end of the war ....

[groovyband.live]

Hi GBL

Just a simple question that I have not been able to work out from the manual.

How do I select a voice on the Keyboard that is NOT an XG Voice.

People like us have fantastic keyboards (Genos, SX, PSRS, Tyros)  that have hundreds of very good voices. We then spend hundreds of pounds more buying Voice Expansion packs.  If we can no longer use all of these with the software it has to be a BIG backward step.

Regards

Bill

You can use 1315 "panel" voices. Not only the 480 XG voices.

The problem with voices available only in some/few keyboards (or even worse, expansion packs) is fragmentation. At the end you end up with a voice set that does not entirely work in any keyboard.

Even the Genos is missing voices that have been introduced later with the PSR SX keyboards, which in turn miss voices present in the Genos and Tyros. The Tyros 5 has some more voices than a PSR SX, but lacks voices that are present even on a (newer) PSR S770.

In practice: it is a mess! If you start to play this game you cannot win. There will be always something not working somewhere. No good user experience.

Even letting each user to input manually the MSB:LSB:PC values is not the solution. In fact GBL has a much more clever voice management than any Yamaha arranger (that simply sends out the MSB:LSB:PC combo and ignores what will happen).

GBL knows the mapping of every (supported) drumkit and megavoice. So that it can substitute intelligently and transparently one voice with another (a thing that would lead to a total failure in any Yamaha arranger) because it REMAPS on the fly note numbers and velocities to obtain an almost perfect and seamless interchangeability.

If the user injects voices we know nothing about, the magic suddenly disappears and the user experience will suffer.

Additionally, for each voice, including the "regular" ones, we have encoded some metadata that helps to build a better realtime arrangement. We NEVER pitch bend a piano or an organ (a thing that the Yamaha's arranger engine does regularly). And we also do not do other things difficult to explain here in few words but that do improve the output! (We are perfectionists).

* * *

So, what can we do?

Certainly something could be done, but we have to think about it carefully. It is not as easy and straightforward as you might think.

* * *

Anyway. In the meanwhile, if you have some (= as many as you wish) voices you would like to play with GBL, send me the corresponding Yamaha VCE files. I will digest them and send back to you the GBL VCE files (only the extension is the same, the binary format is completely different) that will unlock them.

We have done the same work for Henni's expansion voices (choir voices) which are not standard in a PSR S770.

[Henni]

Thank you for the answer. It helped me hear the sounds of my left hand...

...Unfortunately, if I understand you correctly, the selection of sounds, for example from the expansion packs, is currently still denied under the demo version. Anyway, I couldn't see more than the Preset Voices. If you confirm that this is possible with the paid version, I want to believe it and would consider buying it. However, despite the current offer, I feel a bit like Babette.

Anyway. In the meanwhile, if you have some (= as many as you wish) voices you would like to play with GBL, send me the corresponding Yamaha VCE files. I will digest them and send back to you the GBL VCE files (only the extension is the same, the binary format is completely different) that will unlock them.

We have done the same work for Henni's expansion voices (choir voices) which are not standard in a PSR S770.

[rikkisbears]

Our policy is:

A) Maintenance (= bug fixes) and "minor" updates are FREE
B) "Major" updates are paid, although with significant discounts for existing users

Until now, although we have significantly updated the program features (some others would call these "major" updates), see the changelog https://www.groovyband.live/changelog/2334/, we have NOT charged our customers.

When we will charge something for a major update, then we will determine the exact pricing.

Thank you GB.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rikki :

If this ( new ) GBL program should have the same ( and/or additional ) XGW features I am convinced all XGW users will buy GBL at the present list price - 50%.
Comparable to the XGW price.

And last but not least ... there are still many XGW users as we all know. 

For many years I ( and many other Yamaha XGWorks users ) am begging for an XGW Upgrade. How many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry ...

Babette

Hi Babette,
sadly I think the world has moved on. There are still those of us who love the program, probably because what it does, and maybe all that we would need. The new daws are amazing, but too complex for my personal requirements, so I keep going back to xgw and sometimes pg's Real Band.
I just couldn't see it being worthwhile for GB to incorporate something like xgw. First and foremost from what I've been reading, it's a realtime arranger in its own right that uses a Yamaha  as its engine?? Sorry GB if I have that wrong.

Maybe as far as xg works goes, we really should start another topic and not hijack  this one. I've always tried to find workarounds if something doesn't work for me. Maybe xgw deserves its own thread.

[beykock]

Hi Rikki :

You are absolutely right.
I fully agree with your statement.
The Germans say : " Das war einmal ".

Best regards, Babette

[elad770]

With all the information here I still not even
Close to get my answers to my question:
Show me what this software does and how it does it
Instead of focusing on time and resources why the creators
Can not produce a simple tutorial video or a promotional video that shows why I should get this software.
Exactly like the guy from Vconsole.  He made a clear
Video that demonstrates everything.
One good 5min video will result in many purchases
Including my own but theres to much Data and not a lot of practical application. All the styles I heard are similar and based on what I've heard in the past. There are 800+ styles included but I dont see what is the big deal here
Sorry.... I'm really trying

[beykock]

Hi Elad 770 :

I fully agree with your statement.

We only hear how good this GBL prog is, what the prices are etc. etc. ... but up to now I still do not know what GBL really can do, how to use it and last but not least : do I need it ?

I want to make music.
I only use styles, edit them where needed but I am not a Style Maker like Henni.

Up to now there is absolutely no reason for me to order GBL.

Amen.

Take care !

Best wishes, Babette

[Toril S]

A promotional video would be useful. Why not make it?