PSR S970 fill in without arranger variation change

[ob7914]

Hello

Unlike arranger from other brand PSR S970 has the same button for Arranger variation A B D C and FILL IN
So There is only one fill in available when playing .
Is there a solution to launch other fill in without changing arranger variation ?
For example I want to be able to launch FILL IN 1 or 2 or 3 while playing variation D but without going to variation A B or C

Oliver

[Paula]

yes  you need to do this in the style creator by copying the fill you want to the variation fill you want to use
    Paula 

[ob7914]

hi Paula

If i copy fill in to a specific variation fill it will erase the previous one . I want to launch them without changing variation in order to use 4 fill in whatever A B C D section is played.

[Joe H]

Use PadMaker to convert a Fill-In to a Multi Pad, then set the Pad to play just once rather than Repeat (loop) But I think it will sound different be cause the style Main Section will still be playing while the Pad Fill-In is playing.

http://psrtutorial.com/MB/padmaker.html

You should be able to play any Fill-In with any Section manually by quick finger work.

Another option is to copy 3 Fill-Ins to the Intro buttons. You can do that easily with StyleMagic.  If you use Registrations, you can easily switch from the original style with the Intros to the modified style with the Fill-In Intros.

Joe H

[ob7914]

Thanks for reply

PAD & manual change does not work very well
The best solution must me the 3rd : copy style and then copy fill sections to intros
Registration will enable to use intros + fill but we need to press a registration memory at the end of FILL to return to original style section.
I didn't understand Yamaha has not think about such feature ?
Maybe it's possible by using a MFC10 pedal (like on tyros) ?

[andyg]

I always teach my students to use what I call a 'Multi Fill'.

When it comes to that fill in moment and you're on Var B and want to stay there: Press, for example, in fairly quick succession, D A C B. Next time, try C D A B. It well works and even my 10 year old students who have S9xx or PSR3000 keyboards all use it as a matter of routine.

What I asked for at meetings with Yamaha requires a new style engine - Each Variation has four sub-variations, based on major, minor, 7th and diminished/augmented chords, and each of those has four sub-sub variations, automatically selected by the keyboard on a bar-by-bar or two bar-by-two bar basis, so each style also has sixteen possible Fill Ins, determined by the chord and the up/down variation movement but randomly chosen within that by the keyboard if you follow my drift.

[panos]

Oliver if you make the intros with a length of 1 pattern and use the assembly function to copy and paste different fill ins there,
then when you press an intro it will sound like a fill in and will return to the Main you were automatically.

We usually use all 4 mains to play a song but if you don't and you use only two mains to play a song you can assembly lets say main A to main C and main B to Main D but keep different fill ins in them.

If you want extra mains make the endings lets say 16 length patterns and you can use them as mains as long as you remember to go to a main before it plays all the patterns and the style stops.
If you don't remember make them 32 pattern length so you can go back to a main whenever you feel like.
You can do the same thing with the usage of the intros.

[Fred Smith]

Thanks for reply

PAD & manual change does not work very well
The best solution must me the 3rd : copy style and then copy fill sections to intros
Registration will enable to use intros + fill but we need to press a registration memory at the end of FILL to return to original style section.
I didn't understand Yamaha has not think about such feature ?
Maybe it's possible by using a MFC10 pedal (like on tyros) ?

Ok. How would you implement this feature?

[Joe H]

I always teach my students to use what I call a 'Multi Fill'...

... What I asked for at meetings with Yamaha requires a new style engine - Each Variation has four sub-variations, based on major, minor, 7th and diminished/augmented chords, and each of those has four sub-sub variations, automatically selected by the keyboard on a bar-by-bar or two bar-by-two bar basis, so each style also has sixteen possible Fill Ins, determined by the chord and the up/down variation movement but randomly chosen within that by the keyboard if you follow my drift.

The problem is Yamaha has chosen to use the Type 0 MIDI file for styles which is 1 track with 16 channels.  This restricts the possibility of having all the variations you suggest. What you have proposed would require a style format that uses Type 1 MIDI files which can have many tracks for each of the 16 channels. This would allow a lot more Section Markers in the style which translates into more Section variations.

This idea would suggest adding code the OS accommodate all the new markers. It would also increase the cost of making styles and add to the price we pay for keyboards.  Right now there is 3 variations possible... Major chords, Minor chords, and 7th chords. You could create a style with these 3 variations for 2 style Parts only, then we would run out of MIDI channels.

Joe H

[ob7914]

So

as a result the best way is to return to the style creator to make each section-fill combination and then using registrations to switch them (or maybe using intros)
Lot of work!

I always teach my students to use what I call a 'Multi Fill : it's what i am doing since I have Yamaha keyboards and what i'am tired to do 
subvariations : Yes it would be the best solution but I don't think there will be one day an OS update to manage this

[andyg]

The problem is Yamaha has chosen to use the Type 0 MIDI file for styles which is 1 track with 16 channels.  This restricts the possibility of having all the variations you suggest. What you have proposed would require a style format that uses Type 1 MIDI files which can have many tracks for each of the 16 channels. This would allow a lot more Section Markers in the style which translates into more Section variations.

This idea would suggest adding code the OS accommodate all the new markers. It would also increase the cost of making styles and add to the price we pay for keyboards.  Right now there is 3 variations possible... Major chords, Minor chords, and 7th chords. You could create a style with these 3 variations for 2 style Parts only, then we would run out of MIDI channels.

Joe H

I know! That's why I said it would need a completely new style engine, nothing like the one we've got now. It's technically relatively easy to do, but only if you start with a blank sheet of paper and don't want to use MIDI channels in the way that they do now. At some point they'll do it, I'm sure, but as you say, that cost factor is there and there's also the issue of making the new system able to handle older style files! And you'd probably get people moaning that it was too complex!

[tyrosaurus]

The best solution must me the 3rd : copy style and then copy fill sections to intros

Although this will work, there is a difference in the behaviour of an 'intro' and a 'fill'!

When a style is playing, a 'fill' will begin from the point that you press its button, even part way through a measure.  If you do press part way through a measure the 'fill' will play from the point in the measure that it was triggered.  This gives a way of varying the 'fill' slightly based on which beat in the measure it was triggered.

However if you trigger an 'intro' when a style is playing (even if it actually contains the data from a 'fill'), the keyboard will always wait until the end of the current measure before switching to the 'intro' (just like a variation change).

This difference in behaviour may not be a problem for you, and may even be useful, but it is something to be aware of before modifying lots of styles this way!


Regards

Ian

[Paula]

I some times copy the fill to one of the intros I am not using,,,sometimes I use the into as a a fill  and when doing so I change the pattern time in the style creator ,when doing that I can also play cords with the intro or use intros for fills maybe just a couple of tracks for a fill so I can have 5 or 6 fills instead of 4 as well depending the way I plan on using it  again I always use the Reg  and sometimes assign a pedal as well ,my text is always assigned to the Reg as well and I use codes in the text as to when to use the pedal when I put a * in the text it means to use the pedal and leave myself little notes as well ,I use all 8 reg for one song and the lyrics are displaced in the text ,example  text reads Reg 1 intro, reg 2 sing ..reg 3 lead reg 4 sing etc,on the bottom of the reg I always display a preview of what is on the following reg cause you cant see it till you open it I always put in text and also put intros and endings in the reg harmony and all so I rarely touch any other buttons  on the key board its all in the Reg
           Paula