why I will NOT buy a Korg (or a non-Yamaha) keyboard

[Al Ram]

Hello PSR Tutorial Friends.

Lately, I have been reading a LOT of posts with references to great non-Yamaha keyboards such as Korg, Ketron, etc.
Comparisons have been made where Korg or Ketron are better in some respects.  Such as VH, sound, etc.   Emphasis has been made on the great features of Korg. Specifically the PA4X model.

I am very surprised to see the number of posts and compliments to Korg PA4X.  I am not surprised at the deserving quality of the Korg. I am surprised mostly because this is a forum for owners or Yamaha keyboards.

The Korg (or other brands) posts are usually good, well written, educated, coming from people that you can see they know what they are talking about and I have been learning a LOT from those posts.

If I did not have a Yamaha keyboard already I would probably buy a Korg PA4X.    However, owning a Yamaha Tyros 4, Tyros 5 and other smaller Yamaha keyboards I will NOT buy a non-Yamaha keyboard and would like to share my reasons.  If I upgrade my Tyros I will select a Genos.

First, I start with the assumption that only TOTL arrangers from TOTL brand names are considered such as Korg, Ketron and Tyros/Genos.  (There might be others).    That means that any of these keyboards are excellent to begin with.
Granted, one keyboard might be superior in one or two areas but the other keyboard will also be superior in other one or two areas.

When excellent keyboards are considered or compared IMO the main differential is the PLAYER. The keyboards are excellent to begin with.  An excellent player will sound excellent on any excellent keyboard regardless of brand.   A not-so-excellent (like me) player will also sound not-so-good no matter what brand !
   
Some 30 years ago, I purchased a Hohner keyboard.  The main reason I bought it was because the salesperson was playing it great.  Compared to today's keyboard, that Hohner was extremely limited. However, the guy playing it to sell sounded like a full band.   Of course when I got it home, the Hohner keyboard did not sound as great!!!! So, it was the player.

So, for me it is not a question of quality or features, I already know that if I went with Korg it will be a superb keyboard.

The main reason for me is that I already invested a lot of time, money and effort in Yamaha keyboards.   At this point, for me, the transition to another brand name will be extremely costly in terms of time and effort.

One example:  I use Yamaha Tyros registrations a lot.   When I setup a new song, I rehearse it quite a bit and then I set it up using registrations.  I use up to 8 registrations buttons per song and register tempo, key, multipads, VH, volume, variations, voices, etc.  I commit to the keyboard memory as much as I can so that when I play live, it will be 80-100% of what I already rehearsed.    In essence I have become dependent on the registrations.

I respect and appreciate everyone's way of playing.  That is the way I play and it works great for me.

The 1-8 Yamaha Tyros registration buttons works great for me (Genos now has 10).

I understand that Korg PA4X has a similar way of registering to keyboard memory, I believe they call it set lists.  However, they are not quite the same I believe.   

I also have lots of external styles, multipads, etc.  Transitioning all my registrations to Korg is probably not an easy task.

I would also like to mention that it is not a question of loyalty to a brand such as Yamaha.   My loyalty is to my playing and to my audiences.    If I thought that a different keyboard would make me sound 50% better I would change in a bit regardless of brand name.   Audiences do not care about brand names, they just care about having a good time.

It is also not a question of money. I believe that in general and with some exceptions of course, anyone that can spend several thousand dollars on a keyboard, speakers, etc.  can probably spent a few hundreds more or less on another brand name.

It is not a question of age either.  If you are a great player, you can play old and new tunes as well on any excellent keyboard.   Because the keyboard will play any style old or new.  In essence, the keyboard will just obey your commands.

So, it is not a question of loyalty, money, age or quality.  It is just keeping my investment and minimizing time and effort.

I do not need to upgrade my Tyros right now, but if I do in the foreseeable future, most likely will purchase a Yamaha Genos.

Selling my two Tyros, will probably offset 80-85% of the cost of a new Genos.    My understanding is that the transition effort from Tyros to Genos is minimal.

I do understand the advantages and disadvantages but unless convinced otherwise, most likely will stay with Yamaha.
   
I am not writing this to create a huge controversy, my intention is just to explain that:
1)   This is a Yamaha forum where people want to learn mostly about Yamaha keyboards
2)   Korg and Ketron (and others) are great keyboards on their own
3)   I have invested too much money, time and effort in Yamaha to change at this point
4)   I do welcome the interesting comments about Korg/Ketron and other brands and have learned a lot.

I hope everyone has a great day and sorry for the loooong post.

[EileenL]

Very well put and I agree with every word.

[gerarde]

I totally agree!
To change from Yamaha to another arranger, it takes time,time, time.
When you have 400 - 500 registrations done, one can imagine how long it will take to do the same on another arranger.
Especially, when one has many, many song specific styles that are not available on the other arrangers.
But the bottom line is TIME to do it all.

Gerard

[DrakeM]

I blame Gary Diamond!

I stumbled onto an old (now gone) web page of his back in 2004. He posted songs there with his Yamaha keyboard (I think it was a PSR3000). If he had been using a Korg ... I would have purchased one of them.

But I also have too much time invested in custom styles and setups to ever change to another brand .. ever.

Regards
Drake

[SciNote]

Very understandable.  I wouldn't necessarily rule out a non-Yamaha keyboard for the future, as it would depend on what products become available.  But overall, I am quite used to Yamaha -- from the D80 organ I had as a teenager and my early twenties, to the DX7 I essentially replaced it with, and then on to the various PSR-5xx series from the early 1990's (500, 510, and 520), and then now, to my current PSR-E433.  My budget runs toward the $250-500 range at this time, which means the main competition is Casio.  And while Casio certainly gives you a lot of features for the money, when I did back-to-back comparisons, I just felt that the Yamaha was just warmer and fuller sounding, as well as easier to use.

It wasn't always this way -- when I worked in an electronics store in the late 1980's and early 1990's, in my opinion, the Casios of the era sounded noticeably better than the similarly priced Yamahas, but I feel that started to change with the PSR-47, and then really changed with the PSR-500.

Roland also has their GO:KEYS in this price range, but I have yet to see one in person, so I cannot comment much on it.

I think its fine to bring up the topic of other brands of keyboards occasionally.  Sure, if someone comes here just to continually say how great their Casio (or Korg or Roland or whatever) is and keeps asking why we would buy a Yamaha, then yes, maybe they need to be on a forum that is dedicated to their favorite brand.  But to occasionally bring up certain features and characteristics of other keyboards can help people make intelligent buying decisions, it can help people figure out ways to accomplish the same tasks on their Yamahas, and it may also eventually get back to Yamaha so that they can implement improvements on future models.

[Ryszard Bieszczad]

Great applause, Al:)
You are absolutely right. I am almost seventy years old, I tried different instruments, I started with Yamahy psr 450 and then Roland BK-5, Ketron SD-5 and now for more than two years with Tyros 4 (black).
I was looking for my instrument for a long time and returning to Yamaha turned out to be a proverbial hit. Fantasticly stable operating system, refined in detail, quality of workmanship and above all access to thousands of perfectly arranged styles. I write about it because I play only from styles. I never play covers, but from the very beginning I create music. The improvisation is inspired by these brilliant styles.
It's true, Al, that a good musician will perform well on every keyboard.
I am an amateur only (I learned to play myself). But thanks to my passion for creating music, especially on Tyros 4 I managed to create
almost two thousand and four hundred compositions (all of them are on YouTube) and listened to these my improvisations people in 126 countries on almost all continents. I know that if I change the instrument, it is only Genos.
Thank you very much, Al, for your wise words.
Greetings from Poland.
Ryszard

[Bill]

Hi Al

I'm currently a T5 owner and I am awaiting the Genos (whenever it reaches the UK).
Re:  the Other keyboard postings.  I do not mind the odd post from other keyboard owners, but I do object to the constant comments that Korg is far better than Yamaha. It may well be for them but for the majority of us we are currently Yamaha Owners.

You may wonder why they still use this forum to blow the Korg fanfare, well to me the answer is quite simple.

Korg have several forums for the techi stuff, but none of them have the PSR Forum Community Feel.  It think they need to decide exactly what they want and not try to turn this Yamaha Forum into a Multi-Manufacturer's discussion board. Korg forums rarely share anything.

My comments do NOT suggest that they are not welcome, but they do need to respect the Yamaha majority.

Bill

[EileenL]

Well said Bill,
  We know there are other keyboards out there but on this Yamaha forum we have chosen our preferred brand.
I have never seen so much Genos bashing before and it is now getting a little bit annoying. I wonder how the Korg forum would feel if we went over there and kept pushing Genos. For me enough is enough.
  Let us do what we are here for and discuses the new keyboard and look forward to members getting there's.

[motekmusic]

Well said Bill,
  We know there are other keyboards out there but on this Yamaha forum we have chosen our preferred brand.
I have never seen so much Genos bashing before and it is now getting a little bit annoying. I wonder how the Korg forum would feel if we went over there and kept pushing Genos. For me enough is enough.
  Let us do what we are here for and discuses the new keyboard and look forward to members getting there's.

Hi,

Even though am one out of I don't know how many here who is passing on the Genos, not because of any fault with Yamaha or
my economy, it is just not for me at this time.   I still enjoy reading what others have to say about the new keyboard and scoop
up any and all demos that appear.   I think we can enjoy discussions on whether or not this Genos suits us or not,  not bash the
brand name, but mainly from a personal point of view.  Sometimes it is nice to get points of view on other keyboards, but
if truly was interested in another,for example Korg.. there are tons of youtube demos and tutorials on most other brands.
  After many korg posts was almost tempted to add one to collection, but
then came back to reality that at my age, I do not want to be presented with another learning curve.

Am eagerly awaiting the upgraded 970, which hopefully will provide some new voices and styles, features, that Genos offers.
So , the last line of Eileen's post sums it up, and vicariously anticipate new member's keyboards.. all be it a Genos or any
upgrade that may occur.   

cheers
elaine

[pjd]

Roland also has their GO:KEYS in this price range, but I have yet to see one in person, so I cannot comment much on it.

Hi Bob --

I gave the GO:KEYS a try. The basic sound engine is not bad for an instrument in the entry price range. The keyboard quality left much to be desired -- one defective key right out of the box. My comparison point is the E443, which I own and play. The GO:KEYS is the first and only keyboard that I ever returned to the store. More details here:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/roland-gokeys-first-impressions/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/roland-gokeys-is-gonekeys/

On the other hand, there's the Yamaha Reface YC ($300 open box). At this price with mini-keys, it could be a toy. However, it feels and plays like a solid instrument.

So, yeah, Yamaha. They build instruments and they do it quite well! Count me in.

-- pj

[mark fernando]

Hi,

I had Korg Pa900 keyboard and got it as my second arranger keyboard. Yamaha keyboard line is the most familiar keyboards to me too. It is true that we already spent lot of time learning them. So when I got the Korg Pa900 although it had some better things working on new system was a challenge. I think you have to select one keyboard brand when it comes to arrangers for entertainment purposes. Other purposes like studio recording you may select several keyboards. I think it is same like selecting a specific DAW(computer based recording software) and specializing in it.

One thing for sure what I noticed on Korg keyboards they sound live with any PA system and more dynamic and real. But again purely depend on person to person.     

Thanks

Mark   

[travlin-easy]

[guitpic1]

One thing for sure what I noticed on Korg keyboards they sound live with any PA system and more dynamic and real. But again purely depend on person to person.     

Thanks

Mark   

This is why I switched to performing with a PA4X over both my Tyros4 and PSR S970.  Korg, for me anyway, took the sound of the 4X to a whole new dynamic level...very realistic and live sounding.

[travlin-easy]

Guitpic, how about posting some of your songs, recorded while you were playing live with the PA4X. I would be interested in hearing them.

Gary

[DrakeM]

Guitpic, how about posting some of your songs, recorded while you were playing live with the PA4X. I would be interested in hearing them.

Gary

For sure, for sure post some of those live sounding recordings. That's what I am talking about, put some really good sounding tunes recorded live. Then like I post them put them in a Box account without running them through any program to touch them up. I would love to hear them.

Just put the link into your SIGNATURE like I do all the time and share them.

[guitpic1]

Guitpic, how about posting some of your songs, recorded while you were playing live with the PA4X. I would be interested in hearing them.

Gary

I've never learned how to post MP3 to a box. I'll see what I can do.  I have posted to YouTube sometime back but not the 4X yet.

Tried to figure out how to post my youtube channel. It's Rlee.  This was the only link I could get to work.

https://youtu.be/GfE3PLwSXOY

[Kytrinh]

hi folks..
i just happen to love both Korg & Yamaha..
heres a demo of Hotel California Customed on the KorgPa4x with light use Pads to give it a fuller sound..
regards
ky

https://soundcloud.com/user-50350619/171101_03a

[Kytrinh]

heres another customed style but on the Tyros4

https://soundcloud.com/user-50350619/171101_12a

im just thankful for the times we live in, there is really no best keyboard.. deep down its all about the music and sound we love and the feeling we get when playing.

[billtracy]

Excellent quality demos kytrinh and some nice playing.

[guitpic1]

hi folks..
i just happen to love both Korg & Yamaha..
heres a demo of Hotel California Customed on the KorgPa4x with light use Pads to give it a fuller sound..
regards
ky

https://soundcloud.com/user-50350619/171101_03a

Nice..good playing.

I also enjoy both Korg and Yamaha.  Of the three keyboards I own, two are Yamaha.

[adrianed]

Hi Folks,
I cannot agree with gagging the players who own another brand of keyboard and want to tell us about it.

We can only learn which keyboard will suit us best if we also learn something about the other brands

Are we stupid enough to think only Yamaha can make a good keyboard, is their advertising working that good so as to make us shut our eyes and ears to all other suggestions

I certainly will not subscribe to such narrow minded thinking

This forum is enriched for the freedom it gives us to air our findings about many aspects of playing music

Also what about the folk who own a Yamaha and another brand are we going to be rude enough to stop them from telling us about it ??

Adrian 

[mikf]

Adrian

I cannot agree with gagging the players who own another brand of keyboard and want to tell us about it.

Why are you raising this - there are dozens and dozens of posts which contain information about other brands. Nobody is censoring or removing them. The guidelines are quite clear, this is OK as long as it doesn't cross certain lines.
Mike

[travlin-easy]

Kytrinh, excellent rendition of Hotel California. Nice, clean recording on both keyboards, though I think the lead on the PA4X was a bit crisper.

Adrian, no one is gagging players who use or play brands other than Yamaha, and we have several forum members that post songs on the forum using other brands, Roland, Korg, etc... We encourage everyone, regardless of skill and talent level to post their works on the forum. As stated above, there are certain guidelines individuals must adhere to when posting and as long as those guidelines are followed, there is no problem.

All the best,

Gary

[Kytrinh]

Kytrinh, excellent rendition of Hotel California. Nice, clean recording on both keyboards, though I think the lead on the PA4X was a bit crisper.

Thank you Gary
Yes I find that the 4x overall is definitely crisper in sound, only set back is you really need flawless fingers to acquire its clean high def sound.. excellent for acoustic unplugged sets.. T4 smoother more rounded excellent for modern dance chillout tracks...efx is always a specialty in their sounds.. even in their home theatre receivers. Ketron on the other hand, well.. you really have yourself a live band at home/stage.. I love all types of music.. hence I love all arrangers that I can get my hands on -:)

[travlin-easy]

I have a bit of a different style for this song, and have been performing it for many, many years. Here's my rendition of Hotel California. I performed the song a couple years ago, while my lungs were still fairly good using the S-950 and recorded it directly to the keyboard using the onboard recorder during a live performance at a retirement community in Maryland.

All the best,

Gary

[adrianed]

Ok Mike and Gary,

Perhaps I didnt read the posts correctly,

Adrian

[markstyles]

I like when the moderators create a separate forum, for people.. 

I got ticked off a couple of years back, when the Tyros 5 forum seemed to become, (T5 wish-list).. Eventually PSR created a forum just for that I then didn't have to read all the belly-aching, and complaints of what the Tyros 5 wasn't doing. 

If there were a comparisons of other arrangers verses PSR arrangers forumI would be fine with that.  Everyone has an opinion, and many are very informative.

[DonM]

If anyone wants to hear recordings of me, done live on the job, using Korg arrangers, currently PA4X, let me know and I'll tell you where to find them.  I seldom post any here because it is a Yamaha forum.
I also have hundreds of myself using Yamaha arrangers. 
At this time I use the Korg because I love the live sound, particularly drums, the real-time controls and the unmatched vocal harmonizer.  Korg also offers periodic free upgrades and new style packages, some of them major.
From what I've read of the Genos, Yamaha has addressed several of these areas and made major improvements.  I haven't personally had the chance to play one or listen to one in person.  I won't be buying one anyway because of my belief that what I have perfectly suits my needs at this time.
I look forward to seeing what the next PSR brings to the table.  All arrangers keep getting better with each new generation. 
I have owned MANY Yamahas (still have a couple), several Korgs, several Ketrons, several Rolands and several Technics.  I'm probably the only one here who ever played a Peavey arranger!  Yes, they had GEM, General Music, build a couple of models with the Peavey name on them.  They weren't bad either, many advanced features, but really heavy and there was little support.
I'm rambling, but I'm in the hospital trying to keep my mind off upcoming procedures. 
There are no bad choices!  Enjoy what you have and buy what you want to and can afford!  Life is too short not to indulge yourself a little.
You hear me Gary; buy a Genos my friend.  You deserve it!

[Al Ram]

DonM

Great comments.   !!!  i have been tempted to buy a Korg.  However, i am already used to playing with registrations (memory).   I understand that Korg has something similar but not quite.   With Yamaha registrations, i setup my songs in advance and use up to 10 registration buttons on Genos for each song.    Each registration saves to memory a different keyboard state such as tempo, style (sometimes i use more than one style for a song), microphone settings, multipads, etc.

Not sure that you can do the same with a Korg keyboard.  Otherwise, i hear great things about Korg and i really like the Korg styles.

thanks

[DonM]

DonM

Great comments.   !!!  i have been tempted to buy a Korg.  However, i am already used to playing with registrations (memory).   I understand that Korg has something similar but not quite.   With Yamaha registrations, i setup my songs in advance and use up to 10 registration buttons on Genos for each song.    Each registration saves to memory a different keyboard state such as tempo, style (sometimes i use more than one style for a song), microphone settings, multipads, etc.

Not sure that you can do the same with a Korg keyboard.  Otherwise, i hear great things about Korg and i really like the Korg styles.

thanks

Yes Korg does all that very easily, through Songbook and Set list.