Yamaha Genos 2 vs Genos1

[hoangbr2014]

Dear all, After 3 weeks to load expansions and setting up for the new Genos2, I play to compare with Genos1. In my opinion, the sounds of Genos2 seem louder than Genos 1. Also, sounds Genos2 have more treble and midrange. Personally, I like the sound of Genos1 more than Genos2. Sound Genos1 is glitter and deep, but Genos2 seems stronger than Genos1. What about your opinion?

I updated after gigging on stage, Genos 2 have more midrange, but lack of treble.  CFX piano has problem with dynamic. When heavily press, no difference sound, jut only louder.

Updated: Here is the demo about piano to compare  between Genos 1 and Genos 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZZaiZR784

Best Regards

[EileenL]

I love the sound of Genos2 it is so much more alive. The new Ambient reverb works wonders and makes for a much more enjoyable listen.

[Laurance]

@hoangbr2014

If you cut all DSP's of the 2 keyboards, does the Genos 2 sounds mor in treble and midrange area vs Genos 1 ?

[hoangbr2014]

@hoangbr2014

If you cut all DSP's of the 2 keyboards, does the Genos 2 sounds mor in treble and midrange area vs Genos 1 ?

Dear, I will make a demo for 2 keyboards. Lats night first gigging, it shows clearly. When on Genos 1, when I heavily press the key, the piano sound makes a dynamic sound that can make a twist. When press on Genos 2, is not happen, sound louder, but there is no dynamic sound.

[hoangbr2014]

Dear, I will make a demo for 2 keyboards. Lats night first gigging, it shows clearly. When on Genos 1, when I heavily press the key, the piano sound makes a dynamic sound that can make a twist. When press on Genos 2, is not happen, sound louder, but there is no dynamic sound.

Updated: Here is the demo about piano to compare  between Genos 1 and Genos 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZZaiZR784

Best Regards   

[BogdanH]

hello hoangbr,

I don't have Genos and so here's just my personal impression from your video -btw. I was mainly interested on piano.

First part (CFX piano only): Honestly, I don't hear much difference and even the difference that I do hear, can be my imagination. If my hearing doesn't fool me, then compared to Genos1, CFX on Genos2 sounded more sharp (or aggressive) to me. This usually happens at more pronounced midrange frequencies, which can also be influenced by vibrance (or hall?) effect. I'm not saying which keyboard has more accurate CFX piano, but to me, piano sounds a bit more pleasant on Genos1.

As I said, the difference (if any) is very small and maybe noticeable only in direct comparison. Very important: I have listened with headphones and that can make a big difference. When we listen on good loudspeakers in actual room, the sound spreads across the room and we get quite different sound picture -maybe in that case the difference between Genos1 and Genos2 CFX piano are more apparent.
My personal opinion: CFX piano wouldn't be deciding factor if I would need to decide between Genos1 and Genos2.

Thank you for sharing the video!

Bogdan

[hoangbr2014]

hello hoangbr,

I don't have Genos and so here's just my personal impression from your video -btw. I was mainly interested on piano.

First part (CFX piano only): Honestly, I don't hear much difference and even the difference that I do hear, can be my imagination. If my hearing doesn't fool me, then compared to Genos1, CFX on Genos2 sounded more sharp (or aggressive) to me. This usually happens at more pronounced midrange frequencies, which can also be influenced by vibrance (or hall?) effect. I'm not saying which keyboard has more accurate CFX piano, but to me, piano sounds a bit more pleasant on Genos1.

As I said, the difference (if any) is very small and maybe noticeable only in direct comparison. Very important: I have listened with headphones and that can make a big difference. When we listen on good loudspeakers in actual room, the sound spreads across the room and we get quite different sound picture -maybe in that case the difference between Genos1 and Genos2 CFX piano are more apparent.
My personal opinion: CFX piano wouldn't be deciding factor if I would need to decide between Genos1 and Genos2.

Thank you for sharing the video!

Bogdan

Dear, thank you for your reply, I agree with you that "piano sounds a bit more pleasant on Genos1". The problem with CFX on Genos2 is that, when I strongly press on keys, no sound difference. When I heavily press on Genos1 CFX, it makes a pop sound.  In 3 weeks, I felt something wrong on Geenos2. I went to the Guitar Center to test. The sound is the same as my Genos2 at home. Currently, I only feel pleasant when play Genos1, but I know some advances on Genos2 such as Effect or sound stronger than.  Thank you very much.
Best Regards

[pjd]

Hi --

I'm not sure what you mean by a "pop sound." I'm playing Genos1 at home and it sounds OK to me. Perhaps Yamaha revised the CFX attack on Genos2? Maybe they cleaned up the piano samples in Genos2?

This is all guessing. Still, I hope you enjoy your instruments and you're lucky to have both models! 

All the best -- pj

[hoangbr2014]

Hi --

I'm not sure what you mean by a "pop sound." I'm playing Genos1 at home and it sounds OK to me. Perhaps Yamaha revised the CFX attack on Genos2? Maybe they cleaned up the piano samples in Genos2?

This is all guessing. Still, I hope you enjoy your instruments and you're lucky to have both models! 

All the best -- pj

Dear, sorry my  English is bad. I mean that Piano on Genos1 is better than Genos 2. The "pop sound" is a good dynamic sound caused by the hammer action keyboard, which means a good sound. I prefer Genos 1 Piano due to having this sound, but Genos2 is not. Piano sample each layer has its practical sound, for example, when we make a hard strike on key, it makes sound like hammer action keyboard on piano.

Btw, I have to sell one: G2 or G1, because I need only one.

Thanks
Best Regard

[mikf]

Anyone who has ever played a real CFX grand knows that it is a very 'sharp' sounding piano. In fact that is why it is a very common choice in studios, and by pop artists, - it really cuts through the other instruments.
Some people like that sound - some like warmer sounding pianos, like Bosendorfer or Shigeru.
Mike

[DrakeM]

I would like that the Genos 2 keyboard still has all the Genos 1 piano sounds as well does it not?

Yamaha has always included previous voices and just added to their library of voices, I thought.

[richkeys]

In the G2's Data List only "Concert Grand" is listed in the Legacy section. No mention of the CFX, at least from what I can tell, because for some reason Yamaha provided the list in Excel format which opens up as a mess as a PDF. Perhaps the G1's CFX's takes up too much memory to include in Legacy.

Rich

[Laurance]

Thanks for taking time to finally make a short / good demonstration.

Even if I would have preferred a test without any DSP effects to listen only to the quality of the audio converters of each keyboard

but, as I said in other discussions, all the demonstrations of the new Genos 2 to my ears sound the same,

personally I prefer the sound of the Genos 1 in this video

as I also prefer the sound of Montage M which is unfortunately still not available around me.

[hoangbr2014]

I would like that the Genos 2 keyboard still has all the Genos 1 piano sounds as well does it not?

Yamaha has always included previous voices and just added to their library of voices, I thought.

I think that the CFX on Genos2 is new, not like Genos1. The problem is no dynamic voice due to the lack of layers. Hard strike on keys, but no dynamic sound shows up.
Best Regards

[bpsafran]

Please check your settings on keyboard touch. There are several
options including in that has no dynamics.
Perhaps you used a regustration that has set this option

[mikf]

A few comments -
1. when doing this kind of comparison please be clear which keyboard is which, don't assume that everyone is so familiar with both keyboards they can identify small visual differences ......, I couldn't.
2. My understanding is that the keyboards have different keybeds. That would also make a difference to response/sound. As a piano player, I make the point here  all the time that the key response is a bigger differentiator than the voice .... Provided the voice is acceptably good.
3. there  is a very slight difference in sound, but both sound like very good and realistic piano voices. Frankly I wouldn't care too much which one I played.
4. if I audition two actual CFX pianos in a store they would not be identical, and I might notice subtle sound and feel difference.

All top quality pianos sound great to me, ......different, but great. But they don't all FEEL the same and that affects sound as well as touch. The real reason that concert players often insist on Steinway is not because they sound way better, or even feel better ....it's because that's what they practice on and what is in most concert halls ( the result of great marketing rather than best quality) and they want familiar feel.
Mike

[BogdanH]

@Mike
Ok, I recognized which one is which immediately... but if comparing, then the point is which is better: the one on bottom or the one on the top -if there's difference at all 
I'm pretty sure that Genos1 and Genos2 have the same keybed.. otherwise Yamaha would for sure advertise keybed improvement 
I agree on the rest what you say.

Bogdan

[EileenL]

Yes they have the same key bed but Genos 2 has some lovely new piano's which sound just beautiful especially the New Character Grand. You always need to hear these sort of demo's played live on the actual keyboard. Recordings vary so much.

[pjd]

Dear, sorry my  English is bad. I mean that Piano on Genos1 is better than Genos 2. The "pop sound" is a good dynamic sound caused by the hammer action keyboard, which means a good sound.

Ha-ha! My bad! You're looking for a good piano tone that is suitable for pop (popular) music. 

The Montage (gen 1) players craved the C7 piano for rock/pop. C7 pianos are often used for this kind of music. Genos1 had the C7 before Montage M (gen 2).

With all of the new acoustic pianos in Genos2, hopefully, one of those pianos would be suitable?

Yamaha definitely reworked the CFX for Genos2. Perhaps the touch response was affected? It will be a long while before I see and play a Genos2 in person...

I generally agree with Mike (mikf). The FSX keybed is better than the PSRs, but still isn't as responsive as Yamaha's mid- to upper-range digital pianos.

Sorry for my earlier misunderstanding -- pj

[hoangbr2014]

Please check your settings on keyboard touch. There are several
options including in that has no dynamics.
Perhaps you used a regustration that has set this option

Thanks for your reply. I know that, setting the same two keyboards, even Genos2 set to Hard1 or Hard2, still sounds the same.

[hoangbr2014]

Ha-ha! My bad! You're looking for a good piano tone that is suitable for pop (popular) music. 

The Montage (gen 1) players craved the C7 piano for rock/pop. C7 pianos are often used for this kind of music. Genos1 had the C7 before Montage M (gen 2).

With all of the new acoustic pianos in Genos2, hopefully, one of those pianos would be suitable?

Yamaha definitely reworked the CFX for Genos2. Perhaps the touch response was affected? It will be a long while before I see and play a Genos2 in person...

I generally agree with Mike (mikf). The FSX keybed is better than the PSRs, but still isn't as responsive as Yamaha's mid- to upper-range digital pianos.

Sorry for my earlier misunderstanding -- pj

Hi, I have only one time gigging on stage with Genos 2. This week, I will play it again on stage. Wait and see how sounding. Currently, I am very disappointed about CFX Piano on Genos 2. I will keep my Genos 1 for several months and decide to sell Gonos2 or Genos1 later.

Thanks

[mikf]

Surely the decision about which one to keep does not hang on the CFX piano. Especially since most of us hardly hear any difference. It's tiny at the most. It's like deciding which house to buy based on a slight difference in the sound of the door bell.
Mike

[Amwilburn]

Dear, I will make a demo for 2 keyboards. Lats night first gigging, it shows clearly. When on Genos 1, when I heavily press the key, the piano sound makes a dynamic sound that can make a twist. When press on Genos 2, is not happen, sound louder, but there is no dynamic sound.

I put the 2 CFX's up side by side, and the G1's is thinner and less warm; but if you want a more pronounced dynamic, you should be using the Character Grand or the C7; the CFX is all about subtle and smooth. You must also hate the Felt Grand, which is even more subtle!
The Rock variation of the Character Grand is particularly punchy; the U1 and tHe U3 uprights are both pretty bright and dynamic as well.

And for once, no, they didn't include the previous version of the CFX in the G2

Mark

[hoangbr2014]

I put the 2 CFX's up side by side, and the G1's is thinner and less warm; but if you want a more pronounced dynamic, you should be using the Character Grand or the C7; the CFX is all about subtle and smooth. You must also hate the Felt Grand, which is even more subtle!
The Rock variation of the Character Grand is particularly punchy; the U1 and tHe U3 uprights are both pretty bright and dynamic as well.

And for once, no, they didn't include the previous version of the CFX in the G2

Mark

Hi Mark, thank you for your reply. I tried all and realized that the Character Grand or the C7 and some piano sounds seem to have an issue: the sustain pedal very short.

I am a fan of Yanni and Clayderman. Therefore, piano, epiano, string, and synth are very important, because I rarely use sounds like guitar or woodwind.

Actually, I had a short time to try Genos2 at a store. At that time, I was not impressed with Genos 2, besides new effects. Nearby,  was the Korg PA5X. I thought I should buy Korg PA5X, but I think that the rest of my musician life is Yamaha. If switching to Korg, I have to build all data again. 

But I think about buying it because I think the latest model is always better than previous products, like Genos 1 and Tyros 5. So I bought an online dealer, waited for a week, and loaded data and expansions from Genos1 to G2. When I played, I felt Genos 2 lacks of effects, and velocity seems something wrong.  I felt lost in the mood when played Genos 2. In 3 weeks later, I still feel confused: is there any wrong with my instrument?

On the first day of gigging, it showed clearly because my clients said "You play not good as normal day". I asked my friend, who has Genos2, about how he feeling about the new keyboard. I also came to the Guitar Center to test Genos2 again. After comparing the sound of Genos 2 at Guitar Center and my Genos2, I realized that nothing wrong with my G2. I have to accept whatever Yamaha giving. Therefore, I wrote this topic to share that anybody has the feeling like me on Genos2.

By the way, I listen to my friend, who has G2, too. I need time to be familiar with the sound from Genos2. Could be buying piano expansion, or selling G2 then buying Korg PA5X going along with Genos1.

Hoang

[Michael Trigoboff]

I think you can adjust sustain with one of the knobs.

[bpsafran]

The knob that adjusts the piano sustain is
the one marked release, which is also a parameter in
voice edit.   While playing you should use the sustain
pedal for piano voices, that is how the demonstrators
get such realistic pianos. Also,  try the various touch settings
since the velocity curves may have changed from
Genos1.  I have had my Genos2 for several weeks
and it is fantastic. It is important to try all the voices
to learn their qualities. For example  the soft trumpet
can sound very different depending on touch and aftertouch.
The sounds are very well defined and their stereo
field is maintained by the new stereo reverb. One final
suggestion is to find styles that use the pianos
you want and listen to their piano tracks which you
can isolate in the channel menu. That is a good way
to learn how the pianos are optimized with effects
and with playing techniques, including sustain. Don't give up
since the Genos2 is one of its kind.

[Amwilburn]

Hi Mark, thank you for your reply. I tried all and realized that the Character Grand or the C7 and some piano sounds seem to have an issue: the sustain pedal very short.

I am a fan of Yanni and Clayderman. Therefore, piano, epiano, string, and synth are very important, because I rarely use sounds like guitar or woodwind.

Actually, I had a short time to try Genos2 at a store. At that time, I was not impressed with Genos 2, besides new effects. Nearby,  was the Korg PA5X. I thought I should buy Korg PA5X, but I think that the rest of my musician life is Yamaha. If switching to Korg, I have to build all data again. 

But I think about buying it because I think the latest model is always better than previous products, like Genos 1 and Tyros 5. So I bought an online dealer, waited for a week, and loaded data and expansions from Genos1 to G2. When I played, I felt Genos 2 lacks of effects, and velocity seems something wrong.  I felt lost in the mood when played Genos 2. In 3 weeks later, I still feel confused: is there any wrong with my instrument?

On the first day of gigging, it showed clearly because my clients said "You play not good as normal day". I asked my friend, who has Genos2, about how he feeling about the new keyboard. I also came to the Guitar Center to test Genos2 again. After comparing the sound of Genos 2 at Guitar Center and my Genos2, I realized that nothing wrong with my G2. I have to accept whatever Yamaha giving. Therefore, I wrote this topic to share that anybody has the feeling like me on Genos2.

By the way, I listen to my friend, who has G2, too. I need time to be familiar with the sound from Genos2. Could be buying piano expansion, or selling G2 then buying Korg PA5X going along with Genos1.

Hoang

I mean, get the Pa5x if you like; the piano *is* really good (and the bass and drums, too). Or you could go back to G1; it seems to me you may have set your keyboard touch to medium or hard if you find it less dynamic; the g2 pianos are absolutely more dynamic than the G1, but it's possible you used a punchier compressor on the G1 and a more sensative touch to fool your senses.

As for the Character grand having a short sustain; I just A/B'd and its bass notes are definitely longer than the CFX's, although the CFX's decay is more linear and the Character grand's is more of an exponential decay; when you get up to the highest octaves, the characeter's initially decays faster due to the exponential decay, but it's recorded for as long or longer than the cfx on every note I tried. It's hard to tell with all the reverb on, go ahead and dial the reverb to 0 and you should hear them properly.

I think you should go to the master compressor, and turn it off (might be too much compression on for your), although leaving it on natural should've been fine. Note that if you go to Voice Edit on CFX on G1, the internal volume of the CFX voice is 119, on G2 it's 110. So set the G2's to 119 as well.

Then change your keyboard touch response from Normal to Easy 2, Soft1 or Soft2 and try again?

If all else fails, use CHaracter on Right 1, use either CFX or C7 Studio on Right 2, and you get an incredibly dynamic piano.


Mark

[hoangbr2014]

I mean, get the Pa5x if you like; the piano *is* really good (and the bass and drums, too). Or you could go back to G1; it seems to me you may have set your keyboard touch to medium or hard if you find it less dynamic; the g2 pianos are absolutely more dynamic than the G1, but it's possible you used a punchier compressor on the G1 and a more sensative touch to fool your senses.

As for the Character grand having a short sustain; I just A/B'd and its bass notes are definitely longer than the CFX's, although the CFX's decay is more linear and the Character grand's is more of an exponential decay; when you get up to the highest octaves, the characeter's initially decays faster due to the exponential decay, but it's recorded for as long or longer than the cfx on every note I tried. It's hard to tell with all the reverb on, go ahead and dial the reverb to 0 and you should hear them properly.

I think you should go to the master compressor, and turn it off (might be too much compression on for your), although leaving it on natural should've been fine. Note that if you go to Voice Edit on CFX on G1, the internal volume of the CFX voice is 119, on G2 it's 110. So set the G2's to 119 as well.

Then change your keyboard touch response from Normal to Easy 2, Soft1 or Soft2 and try again?

If all else fails, use CHaracter on Right 1, use either CFX or C7 Studio on Right 2, and you get an incredibly dynamic piano.


Mark

Hi Mark, thanks for your reply. I accept what Yamaha gives, and not discuss here more, just tell the fact. For"but it's possible you used a punchier compressor on the G1 and a more sensative touch to fool your senses", this is not because I know all setting my keyboard as factory set natural, and EQ as Flat.

Thanks
Hoang

[soundphase]

the U1 and tHe U3 uprights are both pretty bright and dynamic as well.
Mark

Sorry to cut the thread. I find the U1 with a lot of reverb (the new one in G2) is a very good clear sound even if it can't be used as a concert grand piano for classical renditions.

[Amwilburn]

Hi Mark, thanks for your reply. I accept what Yamaha gives, and not discuss here more, just tell the fact. For"but it's possible you used a punchier compressor on the G1 and a more sensative touch to fool your senses", this is not because I know all setting my keyboard as factory set natural, and EQ as Flat.

Thanks
Hoang

I wasn't saying that you've tricked yourself I was merely offering suggestions for possible solutions for a more dynamic piano. As Soundphase also chimed in, the new U1 and U3 are also really clear, crisp pianos!

Mark