Went to the "Dark Side" with a Korg PA5X 88 --so sorry for that!

[tyrosrick]

I returned the Korg as it had keyboard freeze issues. It was then that I came to my senses and just bought a Genos2. Like the Tyros5 I once owned and sold and the PSR SX 900 I also sold looking for difference and variety in arranger boards, I have finally come back into the warm familiar fold of the Yamaha's, and here I will stay for sure. I have had my fling with the competition, and I can say with utmost surety that Yamaha is THE best keyboard for the features and values that serve me best. Perhaps others embace the Korg's or whatever, okay then, go for it and love 'em: for me, there is only one mistress-Genos2!!

[Gunnar Jonny]

.. I can say with utmost surety that Yamaha is THE best keyboard for the features and values that serve me best.

And that is what it's all about, it serves you and your needs best!
Btw,
my Korg Pa5X-76 works, sounds and look great.
My Genos2 is nice too, but it's not as quality built body and have not as great keyfeel as Pa5X.
But, that's my perspective of it. 

[tyrosrick]

Granted that the Korg key bed feels better than the Genos2, and I would have kept the Korg had it not been for the buttons/screen freezing every 4th time (a condition that blogs are saying is happening). However, the Genos's shortcomings have never manifested to a point where it does not function unless I turn it off and restart. Perhaps I had a lemon, or maybe it is a haphazard fluke in the firmware on this machine I unfortunately received. At any event, I am most happy with the Genos2 and can easily overlook any of its small adverse issues whether actual or perceived. Thanks Gunnar for your viewpoints and I'm glad your particular Korg does not have problems like mine did. On the other hand, it was the Korg's very issues that brought me back to Yamaha, and I'm glad to be here and enjoying all the ear candy melodies from my Genos2.

[DaPaleRider]

Granted that the Korg key bed feels better than the Genos2, and I would have kept the Korg had it not been for the buttons/screen freezing every 4th time (a condition that blogs are saying is happening). However, the Genos's shortcomings have never manifested to a point where it does not function unless I turn it off and restart. Perhaps I had a lemon, or maybe it is a haphazard fluke in the firmware on this machine I unfortunately received. At any event, I am most happy with the Genos2 and can easily overlook any of its small adverse issues whether actual or perceived. Thanks Gunnar for your viewpoints and I'm glad your particular Korg does not have problems like mine did. On the other hand, it was the Korg's very issues that brought me back to Yamaha, and I'm glad to be here and enjoying all the ear candy melodies from my Genos2.

Maybe the Korg was not updated to the latest release? I have no problem at all with it. And I go very deep into the settings creating sounds from the bottom up to a style.

[BogdanH]

Although I'm not into buying right now, I'm following Korg's situation -because there will be the day when I will need to decide.
In general I prefer Pa5X over Genos. However the fact is, Pa5X has unfinished OS. Ok, happens.. but it's on the market for over a year and there's silence on Korg's side, which doesn't make much confidence -we are not talking about $60 toy!

Some say that they have no problems with Pa5X and I believe them. But at the same time I can read on Korg forum some owners complaining. Is it a user's error in this cases? Can be.. or not. Sorry, but there's too much money involved.

Not that I'm some Yammie fan, but if anyone would ask me what TOTL arranger to buy right now, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Genos.
But who knows, maybe Korg will solve all that till I'm ready 

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[Gunnar Jonny]

But at the same time I can read on Korg forum some owners complaining.

Yes, some owners are complaining, and so do some Genos 1 & 2 owners.
The major complaints is about that Pa5X do miss some features that was present at 4X and so on.
If you read more carefully, you'll see that there also is some really heavy deepdivers and skilled Korg Pa users that also is very satisfied.
The keyboard is 'solid state', it smells of quality, and it is heavenly to play at.
As Yamaha, Korg will make further OS updates, and if take in concideration that Pa5X's OS is brand new created from the bottom, it's not more shocking that there is something that need to be corrected or added than at Yamaha G2 who in reality has the same OS as in the G1.

[BogdanH]

hi Gunnar,
Thank you for commenting -it helps me to see the situation from different perspective. Means, Pa5X OS only needs some polishing -will keep in mind 

Bogdan

[MadrasGiaguari]

As Gunnar Jonny pointed, PA5X is a totally new arranger: new hardware, new OS.

I love my Genos1, so powerful that I need more years to really learn it.

But before Genos I had many Korg: i3, i30, Pa1X, Pa3X, each for about 5 years. Never had any major problem. OS was running smoothly and hardware was just excellent.
So I believe that PA5X needs just OS fixes. They will do, for sure.

If I would add a Korg arranger today to Genos, I would go with Pa3X or Pa4X, very dependable gears, that you can find in good conditions at a quite convenient price.

Ciao

Angelo

[Laurance]

Hi to all, this is my first post, I'm also about to buy a Genos 2

My only question is:

Could Genos2 sounds different than all demos on YouTube ?

I found from the Pa5x demos, the final sound can be more personalized while Genos 2 demos sounds always polished to 80's like...?

It's not possible for me to try any of these in a music store.

Regards.

[ton37]

Hi @Laurence, welcome to this forum. Indeed it will sound different than on the internet. Thats because of the used audiocompression. In real live it sounds better. Generally speaking: accordingly to allmost all owners it is the best sounding Yamaha model out of the box. Many reviews mentioned that. So I guess accordingly to that dimension there is less risk that you will be dissappointed. 

[DaPaleRider]

Hi,

I send a message to Korg UK about the bugs, issues and complains what are posted on the Korg forum. They are working on making the Pa5X better.

My message:
Dear Korg Support,

I have been a happy owner of the Korg Pa5X for a few weeks now. I then registered with the Korg Forum to be able to ask my questions. There is a thread specifically about the bugs and problems that fellow owners have found since the last update 1.2.1.

I have no idea how to share these bugs with Korg. Every country works differently and the websites and the way to contact Korg work differently in every country. I feel called to share this information in the hope that Korg will resolve or improve these reports from the co-owners.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=129358

It is common knowledge that Korg communicates little about what they are doing, which I can understand. And that's not just Korg, other brands are also not giving anything away. But it would be nice to put something on the market as information. Like when is the Pa5X on par with the Pa4X. There are still many features missing. Understand that the OS in the Pa5X is completely new and understand the bugs that have not yet been resolved. However, people have become impatient after two years since the Pa5X hit the market.

Yours sincerely,

Patrick

Korg UK Reply:

Hi Patrick,

Thank you for your message.

I can assure you that the development team involved with the Pa5X does take these reports very seriously and they will continue to investigate them.

However, it is also worth bearing in mind that not all reports that can be found online are actual problems with the instrument itself. Some users also post about the same problem on multiple platforms, giving the impression that more users are affected by a certain behaviour than there are in actual fact.

Finally, if you are not based in the UK, the best way to report any issues or ask any questions is through your local distributor. The contact details for local distributors worldwide can be found here: https://www.korg.com/uk/corporate/distributors/

Best wishes,

-
Saulo Valerio
Korg UK & Ireland

[Divemaster]

I own a couple of SX 700's and really enjoy playing them.
I also own a Korg Pa5X and a Technics Digital Ensemble Piano. I enjoy playing those too. My wife plays the Technics, but isn't into keyboards at all.

I think we all buy what suits us at particular points in our musical journeys, and what appeals to us about each particular instrument.

So I don't think there's any right or wrong choice.
I play from sheet music, and from a Lenovo Tablet linked to a Lekato page turning foot pedal. I'm not any more or less than an average player, but I enjoy playing.

For me, my choice to buy my Korg was build Quality. Having had some issues with one of my SX700's which were, eventually, accepted by Yamaha via my dealer, I ended up with a brand new replacement keyboard. However, my confidence in Yamaha's build quality has been damaged.

At the time I wanted to expand my playing capability, the Genos 2 hadn't been released. So the choices were limited.
So I'm still very happy with my decision to buy the Korg. I have also since, seen and played the G2,
Yes, it's a super keyboard.

But when you consider that you need to also buy a speaker system to complement it, (as you do with the Korg too) , the G2 becomes a Very expensive piece of kit.

And for me, that's where the build quality of the Korg instruments wins hands down.

I may or may not ever own a G2. I might pick up a G1 at some time, who knows? But when I'm spending quite a lot of money on a TOTL keyboard, I want it to look good, and sound good too.
Both keyboards exceed my playing ability at the moment, but imo Yamaha, you need to re-tool that perfectly horrible plastic case, and make the G2 a true professional looking instrument. It's not cheap, but it looks cheap.

That's my take on it anyway.
Keep playing, keep happy!

Keith.

[Laurance]

@Ton37 thanks a lot for your reply, appreciated.

[BogdanH]

Hello Laurance,

...
Could Genos2 sounds different than all demos on YouTube ?

I will try to be precise with answer:
YouTube uses AAC (audio codec) up to 256kbps if I remember correctly and trust me, you won't notice difference compared to CD quality. However, how good the sound quality of particular video will be at the end, depends entirely on person who created the video.
In most cases we listen to YouTube music either trough tiny PC loudspeakers or headphones (usually at too low volume). But that way it's impossible to get an impression an instrument (keyboard) -real loudspeakers are needed for that! For example, if you ever listened to a real trumpet at one meter distance, then you know what I mean.

..Genos 2 demos sounds always polished to 80's like...?

-rubbish.
I mean, I wouldn't put too much weight on "demos" when deciding about keyboard -listen to keyboard owners who play the music that you're interested on.
Does this or this sounds like 80's to you?
If music is from 50's it will sound like 50's and if it's from 90's it will sound like 90's. What I'm saying is, it depends on music played -by assuming that musician decided for right voices.

In short: how music will sound is entirely up to player.

Bogdan

[Gunnar Jonny]

-rubbish.

Rubbish  

In my ears, Yamaha has always sounded more CD'ish and cold, or studiopruduced if that explain it better.  Call it 80'ies sounds if you like, because that describe the time when more synths and digital sounding records really popped up.
Yamaha and Korg (as other brands) is different animals, and the best way to figure out what suits one best, is of course to try it personally.
Many YT videos don't show the real sound picture, but it may give a hint about the differenses as well as great educational videos about how to do this or that.

That said, if anyone ask me, Genos2 is the very best arranger keyboard from Yamaha till now, and Pa5X is the very best from Korg till now. 
But, there is a differences in build quality. Where Genos is plastic fantastic (Made in Ch***) and have clickety-clackety noisy keys, Korg is quality build by use of aluminium body with wooden panels at the ends, and a keybed and keys thats heavenly to play at.
It's really hard to choose, especially if you don't have any experience with any of them.

[Laurance]

Thanks BogdanH and Gunnar Jonny for you'r inputs

As it's impossible for me to try any of these in real life, my only choice is Youtube...etc

I'm listening through Apollo X8 and DT770, where my conclusion about the final output same sound color (80's, 50's or Latin's)
When it comes to Pa5x, the sound is less colored (to my ears), which let more choices to sound different from other Pa5x's using same internal samples.

in other way, I found the YAMAHA Montage m sound's demos to be less colored (same as Pa5x), I could be wrong since my conclusion is only based on Youtube ...?

[BogdanH]

hi Laurance,
Maybe I didn't understood you... Of course there are tonal (or sound) differences between keyboard brands. There are at least two reasons why's that:
1. Each brand uses different audio samples for voices
2. Samples are differently processed at voice creation
-the quality of sound engine inside keyboard (D/A converters, etc.) plays minor role, because that's no atomic science anymore nowadays.

That is, for example, piano on Korg will sound slightly different as on Yamaha (even both say it's a Steinway piano). It's not about which is objectively better -it's about which you like more.
But there's more than only piano... brass, strings, woodwind, etc. voices... and if you like most of these voices on brand A more than on brand B, then you will obviously decide for brand A.

Remember this: at the end, that's more or less nitpicking. How the keyboard sounds depends on person behind keybed.

Bogdan

[cyber swine]

Both keyboards exceed my playing ability at the moment, but imo Yamaha, you need to re-tool that perfectly horrible plastic case, and make the G2 a true professional looking instrument. It's not cheap, but it looks cheap.

Keith.

This is me.  As time is passing I find myself spending more and more time on the Korg, (to me) it just feels and looks so good.

[KurtAgain]

the Korg, [...] just feels and looks so good.

While I think the design of the Genos is bold, it also reminds me a little of the control panels in a Borg cube. Just looking at the design, I like the more Italian design of the Pa5x better.

[Amwilburn]

Granted that the Korg key bed feels better than the Genos2, and I would have kept the Korg had it not been for the buttons/screen freezing every 4th time (a condition that blogs are saying is happening). However, the Genos's shortcomings have never manifested to a point where it does not function unless I turn it off and restart. Perhaps I had a lemon, or maybe it is a haphazard fluke in the firmware on this machine I unfortunately received. At any event, I am most happy with the Genos2 and can easily overlook any of its small adverse issues whether actual or perceived. Thanks Gunnar for your viewpoints and I'm glad your particular Korg does not have problems like mine did. On the other hand, it was the Korg's very issues that brought me back to Yamaha, and I'm glad to be here and enjoying all the ear candy melodies from my Genos2.

I've actually crashed our G2 several times; loading up *native* G1 registrations, no less (not ones converted via software). Yes I've reported it.
And I agree that the korg 76 key semiweighted keys feel nicer than the G2 semiweighted (Fatar semiweighted feels great. Fatar *weighted* keys are not as good though). And I prefer the Korg live quantizing for acmp chord changes, and memory on/off.

But for editing of styles and midi files, I found the Yamaha system much easier (for starters, it has UNDO!). But if you can afford both, why not both?!

Mark

[Amwilburn]

Hi to all, this is my first post, I'm also about to buy a Genos 2

My only question is:

Could Genos2 sounds different than all demos on YouTube ?

I found from the Pa5x demos, the final sound can be more personalized while Genos 2 demos sounds always polished to 80's like...?

It's not possible for me to try any of these in a music store.

Regards.

Well, obviously best would be to try them both in store. But failing that, I can tell you this: in person, the *bass* is much tighter on Korg than even G2 (that includes kick drums and electric basses; Yamaha still has the edge on acoustic upright bass) and the punch is insane, even without a dedicated sub (I'm running G1, G2 and PA5x through the same set of GNSMS01 speakers).

Customization and programming aside, as well as ignorin the variety of available resources (like available sample packs and styles); the Korg *will* sound better when heavy bass and drums are involved: 80's Rock, modern dance & R&B,and a lot of 80's pop.
The Genos 2, however (and even the G1, really) really pull away from the PA5x acoustically: Brass, woodwinds, acoustic basses, acoustic guitars (however, I'd say the PA5x has the slight edge on Classical guitar, but it's slight). So acoustic Rock/pop, especially ballads, but also orchestral (Hans Zimmer, John Williams) and big band music (Sinatra) sound more real on either Genos, but especially the G2.

Depends a lot on what music you play. Oh, the acoustic pianos on PA5x and G2 both sound better than the G1 pianos.

No I haven't tried a subwoofer yet that brings either Genos up to par with the Korg bass; I suspect the Yamaha HS8s would work (paired with a pair of HS7s or HS8's) but we only have a sealed unit in stock; I don't really want to open up the new stock just to try that out (but if a customer came in and asked me to do that, that's all the excuse I'd need!)

Mark

[Laurance]

@Amwilburn, Thanks a lot for you'r reply

Now I think, every one used these 2 keyboards find the Pa5x sound's more modern (ie less polished) maybe it's something to do with the integrated DSP effects or settings ? or maybe the samples are already treated on this way ?

[Amwilburn]

@Amwilburn, Thanks a lot for you'r reply

Now I think, every one used these 2 keyboards find the Pa5x sound's more modern (ie less polished) maybe it's something to do with the integrated DSP effects or settings ? or maybe the samples are already treated on this way ?

More modern is a good way of putting it; the PA5x excells at the synths and synth pads as well, as well as the drums sound *much* more punchier, but not as *real*. The G2 actually has a knack for making everything sound *real*; but sometimes we don't want real, know what I mean? No not the effects (we tried taking removing both to A/B them); the acoustic instruments simply sound like they used less sample memory on the PA5x (except the pianos, which are excellent!) and the G2 just sounds more natural, even with all the effects removed. But if you're looking for modern and punchy? You can't go wrong with the Pa5x.

I had one customer comment: "the G2 blows away the PA5x on realism and everything else, but *man* I wish the G2 was that punchy!"

But for him, his indescision makes no sense, as everything he plays is acoustic (latin, big band brass) and he doesn't play *any* modern music :p

Mark

[KurtAgain]

As it's impossible for me to try any of these in real life, my only choice is Youtube...etc

I found a direct comparison between Genos 2 and Pa5x.

The same player, the same song, two Keyboards.

Song "Feelings"
Genos 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggaI1WvhpIM (Song starts at 5:08)
Pa5x: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyRilgfYtwc

Song "La Paloma"
Genos 2 and Pa5x alternate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_7-OutNZBk&list=PLBdjOPWDHm5fQU3uCb6KDh4Ru5l_dG3pX (Song starts at 1:22)

(Alois plays on a special German version of the PA5x with more sounds and styles, the Pa5x Musikant.)

[BogdanH]

Kurt, thank you four pointing on this comparison!

I have only watched La Paloma video, because I know the song very well (in many covers).
We all know that results depend on various keyboard settings, but still... in general I find Pa5X voices more realistic -and the difference is quite noticeable in this case. And I will leave it at that... 

Bogdan

[mikf]

I thought the Genos version sounded better on Feelings, doesn't help though that I don't like that song too much. Maybe the Korg was the better one on La Paloma.
But that's hardy definitive, just a personal judgement. Truth is that both are very good arrangers and sound good, any difference is relatively minor, and more about personal taste. And you can never get an absolute comparison anyway because they are different, and he doesn't play them exactly the same, or choose exactly comparable voices. And different is not necessarily about which is good or bad, or best or better.
In any case how they sound is not the whole story - which one was easier to set up, operate, required less tweaking, was easier to edit, etc etc.  - all counts in making choices. For example Yamaha has much better style availability, Korg may have better style editing - swings and roundabouts. It's like the difference between a vacation in the Seychelles or the Maldives. Both pretty desirable.
One thing I was certain about though, I thought the solo section full keyboard piano playing on the Genos sounded pretty good in the hands of a decent piano player,........especially considering that this is one voice that people always say Korg have better. It wasn't to my ears. Mind you my hearing is far from perfect!
Mike

[ton37]

People are always looking for their own 'holy grail', but as it comes to produce music ...... the best songs were not played on the best instruments, but by the best musicians! 

[BogdanH]

I agree Ton.
That is, if I listen a guitarist playing, I don't care if he plays on $5000 Les Paul guitar or on cheap guitar from local store -however, it should sound as a guitar.

Bogdan

[Amwilburn]

Nice find Kurt!

I only compared "Feelings", as that's the song I'm familiar with, and his comparison pretty much matches what I've said: Both have great piano (both better than the G1); the Korg has a *slight* edge on nylon guitar (and Yamaha has the edge on steel string); but the his sax on the G2 sounds a lot more alive than the PA5x's. Which is exactly what I've found playing them side by side at work. What's missing from that video is just how much punchier the Korg drums and bass sound, and how much more *real* the Yamaha brass (and woodwinds) sound, but maybe I'll have to do those comparisons myself in nobody else does?

Mark

[KurtAgain]

What's missing from that video is just how much punchier the Korg drums and bass sound

Personal preferences are so different. I found that the drums and bass on the Pa5x were significantly more powerful than on the Genos - for me personally, they were actually too powerful.