Master Volume goes up and down and I hear an ugly creaking

Stefan72 · January 21, 2024, 09:11:43 AM

Hello,

since a few weeks i have a Genos1 (i bought it used, not new, no warranty), and i am verry happy with it. But since yesterday I've had a problem. When I start it the volume becomes quieter and the tones sound strange with a creaking sound. When I change the volume it suddenly disappears and starts again a short time later. If the Genos is running for a while it works again without any problems.

My guess is that it's a contact problem but where? Could the master volume control be the problem?

Here is a video where the problem can be heard.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nal3joe9mzt0a7ilxr691/20240121_141843.mp4?rlkey=g993m21gej2j6azbxhisbc102&dl=0

Has anyone had this problem and can help me fix it?

Best Regards

Stefan

Lee Batchelor · January 21, 2024, 09:38:09 AM

Hi Stefan and welcome aboard!

The first thing I suspect when there is an issue with sound is, cabling. It doesn't sound like a volume control issue because you're only losing the high frequencies. Can you swap out your cables for different ones? Try that first. If that fails to make a difference, then look at the knob.

When a volume knob or slider malfunctions, you usually hear some scratching noise, which indicates an intermittent contact within the knob. Turn off the Genos and work the volume knob all the way up and down about 30 times at medium speed. If there is oxide on the internal contacts, you stand a good chance of cleaning it off. Turn the Genos back on and see what it sounds like.

Great idea posting a video! Please report back after you try these two ideas.

BogdanH · January 21, 2024, 10:08:45 AM

hi Stefan,
Does that also happen if you use headphones? If answer is no, then it's either cabling or your loudspeakers.

Bogdan

Lee Batchelor · January 21, 2024, 10:28:09 AM

Another good trouble shooting point, Bogdan. Thanks.

Stefan72 · January 21, 2024, 12:38:57 PM

Thanks for your answers.

After i read them i would like to check your ideas. The Keyboard was off for maybe 1 or 1,5 hours, i turned it on, now with headphones inside, and all works fine. Hhmmm, ok i played for a while and after an hour the sound goes off completely. I took the headphones and that sound was ok. After 10 seconds I heard a croaking sound through the headphones and was a bit confused. I took them off and heard the sound coming out of the speakers again. After a few seconds the sound returned to normal. For the next half hour everything was fine. I didn't do anything while this was happening. I didn`t play with the Master Volume or something else !

A thought about the cables. Both the left and right sides would have to be broken if the sound could fail completely, that's very unlikely, isn't it?

I still have my Ketron Audya connected to my mixer and it works without any problems. So I would rule out the mixer, power amplifier and speakers for now, right ?

I have to wait until the problem occurs again more often, like this morning. Maybe then I can try more.

BogdanH · January 21, 2024, 03:05:49 PM

hello Stefan,
The way you described, I still haven't slightest idea where the problem might be. You really need to narrow down possible causes. That is, you must physically disconnect everything connected to keyboard and only use headphones for a while (maybe for an hour or even longer). Btw. also make sure that power cord has proper connection!
If you hear nothing suspicious during that time, then you can assume that keyboard is working properly. Of course, if it happens that you hear distortion after 10 minutes, then it makes no point to test any longer and in this case definitely keyboard is causing that.

Bogdan

Toril S · January 21, 2024, 03:57:36 PM

Do you use the optional speaker set that goes with the Genos? If so, check the two cables that go into the satelite speakers, and the cable from the Genos to the subwoofer unit. This cable's contacts are very fragile, but usually, when they break the sound will be totally gone. But try anyway. If you have other speakers, check the cables. Not so easy to detect if they are defective, so if you could for instance get new ones from a music store that would be great.

Amwilburn · January 21, 2024, 05:01:56 PM

It also would be helpful to our analysis if the next time you hear "croaking" if you were able to take a short video?

But if you hear it on headphones, that's not a good sign, unfortunately.
Like Bogdan said, disconnect everything... it's not from a mic, is it?

Mark

Stefan72 · January 21, 2024, 06:07:02 PM

@Bogdan

I think i need more time to do some test.

@Toril S.

No, i am using an old Phonic Helix Board 18FW with a Power Amplifier and Speaker.

@Mark

You can find a link to the Video in my first post.

I think a mic is not the problem.

Amwilburn · January 21, 2024, 06:34:04 PM

Quote from: Stefan72 on January 21, 2024, 06:07:02 PM
@Bogdan

I think i need more time to do some test.

@Toril S.

No, i am using an old Phonic Helix Board 18FW with a Power Amplifier and Speaker.

@Mark

You can find a link to the Video in my first post. I think a mic is not the problem.

My bad, missed the link.

Upon listening to it, do you mean at 1:24 when all the other accompaniment instruments seem to drop out? That kind of sounds like it's part of the style? (it comes in and out on beat). It would help if we knew which style that was?

Mark

Lee Batchelor · January 21, 2024, 06:36:04 PM

Quote from: Amwilburn on January 21, 2024, 06:34:04 PM
My bad, missed the link.

Upon listening to it, do you mean at 1:24 when all the other accompaniment instruments seem to drop out? That kind of sounds like it's part of the style? (it comes in and out on beat). It would help if we knew which style that was?

Mark

Mark, wouldn't it be good idea for the OP to try a brand new style from scratch? A screen shot of the Mixer settings would be useful too, especially the Master tab settings.

Stefan72 · January 22, 2024, 07:08:49 AM

Quote from: Amwilburn on January 21, 2024, 06:34:04 PM
Upon listening to it, do you mean at 1:24 when all the other accompaniment instruments seem to drop out? That kind of sounds like it's part of the style?

The sound of the recording with the Handy is not perfect it doesn't sound as clear as it really is. It can be heard at the beginning of the video and yes, very clearly at 1:24. And no, it's certainly not part of a style, if it were like that, Yamaha wouldn't be able to sell a single Genos.

In addition, yesterday all the sound went out for several seconds, except for the headphones.

Maybe my amplifier is the cause. I also played with my Audya and had no problem, but maybe I tried it at the wrong time. Murphy's Law?

My idea is to play afterwards and record with my PC via Firewire on my mixer. If the problem occurs and I hear it later in the recording it is coming from the Genos, if not it must be the power amp.

I hope my English is good enough and I can be understood. I use my brain and a little Google, my German is way better !

ChrisSayer · January 22, 2024, 11:54:09 AM

I had a sound cracking problem and traced it to my volume pedal.

Worth a go !

Stefan72 · January 22, 2024, 12:17:54 PM

I don't have a Pedal connected, but thanks for the tip.

I played for 1 hour earlier, but without any problems. Sometimes it's crazy. $:-\$

Amwilburn · January 22, 2024, 03:25:17 PM

Quote from: Stefan72 on January 22, 2024, 07:08:49 AM
The sound of the recording with the Handy is not perfect it doesn't sound as clear as it really is. It can be heard at the beginning of the video and yes, very clearly at 1:24. And no, it's certainly not part of a style, if it were like that, Yamaha wouldn't be able to sell a single Genos. In addition, yesterday all the sound went out for several seconds, except for the headphones.

Maybe my amplifier is the cause. I also played with my Audya and had no problem, but maybe I tried it at the wrong time. Murphy's Law?

My idea is to play afterwards and record with my PC via Firewire on my mixer. If the problem occurs and I hear it later in the recording it is coming from the Genos, if not it must be the power amp.

I hope my English is good enough and I can be understood. I use my brain and a little Google, my German is way better !

As I still don't know which style that was, so I can't hear what it was *supposed* to sound like in person. But the sound isn't very clear in the phone video, so i don't know what you mean by "creaking". As Lee implied; does this happen with all styles?

At 1:24 it just sounds like a filter is being applied to all style instruments.

Mark

Stefan72 · January 27, 2024, 03:25:09 PM

Now I'm back with a result.

After waiting in vain for a few days for the problem to appear, it was back again, and very clearly. Croaking from the speakers sometimes louder sometimes quieter and sometimes complete failures. It was fine with headphones and I quickly started the PC to start recording. This is also OK and without any errors, so i am pretty sure the power amplifier is defective. If I turn the volume up and down on the Genos several times it mostly works again, but it's probably just a coincidence.

Now I have to see if I can find something on the Internet about repairing the power amplifier. It's a Palladium Vintage P-2000.

Thank you all for your support.

Best Regards

Stefan

overover · January 30, 2024, 05:45:50 PM

Thanks for the preliminary report, Stefan!

By the way, have you tried playing a signal source other than the Genos through this external sound system/power amplifier? If the problem is there, it should be independent of the Genos.

Best regards,
Chris

Stefan72 · January 31, 2024, 02:01:26 PM

Hi Chirs,

as I have already described, I tested with headphones and I made a recording on the PC via the Firewire interface of the Mixer to which the Genos is connected via line out. Both were fine so I can assume that the Genos is OK.

Best Regards

Stefan