Registration changes workflow

[jcgam]

Genos2 is my first Yamaha.  When I'm building a playlist and setting registrations, I make adjustments to the instrument, save the registration by pressing memory then a registration button, press bank + -, press file, save, save here,  ok, overwrite yes.  Then, every time I make a change, I repeat this process.  Is this correct?  Is there no shortcut to all of these steps?  When I do this I don't need to modify the playlist if it already contains the registration file, correct?

[DaPaleRider]

I create a registration bank for each song, for example Reg1 Intro, Reg2 Verse1, Reg3 Chorus1, Reg4, Verse2, Reg5 Bridge and so on. I save this as you describe and add it to a playlist.

So I first make all the registrations and then save the registration bank at once. I don't think it can be faster

[ton37]

Yes, as you both describe, that's is how it works. Only if you has to work/change several registration banks than a extern software programm ( like Yamaha Registration Manager) on a PC could be helpful.

[Rick D.]

I prefer to make a registration bank for each song. As I modify this original registration when I go to save it, I add a number to the name of the registration. This way the original goes unchanged, and if I decide I like the original better it is easy to go back to it. Once I decide on the finale layout I will still put the old one in a folder, just in case. Yes I am a pack rat! 

Rick D.

[sh]

I prefer to make a registration bank for each song. As I modify this original registration when I go to save it, I add a number to the name of the registration. This way the original goes unchanged, and if I decide I like the original better it is easy to go back to it. Once I decide on the finale layout I will still put the old one in a folder, just in case. Yes I am a pack rat! 

Rick D.

This is exactly my workflow as well. 

[konaboy32]

it doesn't really matter how you use registrations, the point here is that saving a registration bank is a royal PITA.

I searched for a solution, no joj
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,67856.0.html

6 steps are needed to save updates to a reg bank

1) enter the registration bank page
2) press the file button on the screen
3) press the save icon
4) press the "save here" button
5) keyboard appears on screen, press ok
6) popup appears warning me that i will be overwriting, press yes

[andyg]

As a historical note:

Back in the days of home organs, before keyboards were around, we became able to store user memories, usually onto a RAM pack, then floppy. At first, we only had two or three available and it could be a pain to load and save them. As technology improved we were able to put 8, 12 or 16 user memory buttons on and it sort of became the norm to use one bank per song. A lot of players, myself included, would also create a 'survival' bank with generic sounds. Great for me, as the second half of my concerts was usually full of audience requests. The 'D' button, that allowed the player to lock the rhythm while changing between the user memories, was essential. Organs without that button could be awkward!

I agree that there are quite a few button pushes involved in saving, but to be honest, once you've done it a few times, I find that it's no trouble and it's done in seconds.

[jcgam]

I don't know if Yamaha reads this forum, but if they do, a simple solution is to implement a shortcut for saving/overwriting a registration bank such as press Memory and Regist Bank + -.  That's 3 buttons, impossible to press accidentally, and it would make the process so much faster and easier.

For someone like me, new to Yamaha keyboards, this would save me a lot of headache because I'm building my first registration banks, and I'm saving often so I don't accidentally lose any changes.

[DerekA]

It does seem like a lot of button pressing, yes.

But - it's a good way of making sure you *dont* accidentally lose your changes.

If there was a shortcut, I am sure someone would be complaining that it was too easy to accidentally overwrite something that took them ages to set up.

[Fred Smith]

I don't know if Yamaha reads this forum, but if they do, a simple solution is to implement a shortcut for saving/overwriting a registration bank such as press Memory and Regist Bank + -.  That's 3 buttons, impossible to press accidentally, and it would make the process so much faster and easier.

For someone like me, new to Yamaha keyboards, this would save me a lot of headache because I'm building my first registration banks, and I'm saving often so I don't accidentally lose any changes.

It's true the saving method is archaic (remember WordPerfect?), but you get used to it pretty quickly. We've been asking that File>Save be changed to File>Save As to be more compatible with other devices, and that a new File>Save (with automatic overwrite) be implemented, but to no avail.

A more useful enhancement would be to support automatic saving like most modern programs do (you would turn this on in Settings).

Regardless, there are more annoying things about registrations (like the Memory button not remembering what it's supposed to remember). I'd rather they change those first.

Cheers,
Fred

[EileenL]

What doesn't your memory button remember Fred.

[Fred Smith]

What doesn't your memory button remember Fred.

It doesn't remember what it's supposed to remember.

When I press the Memory button, I want to see what groups were memorized in that registration. Right now, what I see is the groups that were checked the last time I memorized. This might have no relation to the current registration.

When you load a registration, it should also populate the Registration Memory Contents screen.

Cheers,
Fred

[jcgam]

A better idea: press and hold Memory, Bank + -, 3 buttons, for 2 seconds, then changes are saved with no prompts other than to confirm that changes are saved.  No possible way that this could be unintentional.  I can dream!

[KurtAgain]

Or buy an older PSR/Tyros without a touch screen: 

4 steps are needed to save updates to a reg bank

1) press [J] to enter the registration bank page
2) press save
3) press ok
4) popup appears warning me that I will be overwriting, press yes

[EileenL]

Yamaha keyboards have always worked this way. That is why I always make a set up registration with all the things I want saved in Memory before I start making my registrations on any new keyboard.

[jcook980]

Back in the days of home organs, before keyboards were around, we became able to store user memories, usually onto a RAM pack, then floppy.

When I worked at Rodgers Organ Company in the late 70s, we were still using magnetic core memory for registrations. All shift long, several very patient women would meticulously hand sew 4 small gauge varnished wires through each and every tiny core (0.33mm in diameter) to create a matrix of storage bits. I painfully remember teaching a couple of classes in core memory theory and troubleshooting to dealer organ technicians. A 32 x 32 matrix to store 128 bytes required over 1000 cores!

[jcgam]

I get a little bit irritated every time I have to go through all 6 steps including button presses and screen touches, just to save a registration.  I spoke to an engineer at Yamaha US who said he would pass on the suggestion to Yamaha JP, where I'm confident the idea will be completely ignored.  At least I feel a little better that someone at Yamaha was good enough to speak to me about it.

[Amwilburn]

It does seem like a lot of button pressing, yes.

But - it's a good way of making sure you *dont* accidentally lose your changes.

If there was a shortcut, I am sure someone would be complaining that it was too easy to accidentally overwrite something that took them ages to set up.

That's actually what happened. There was no confirm overwrite, and ppl kept accidentallly overwriting their registrations. Especially painful because back then you couldn't name the bank; it was just banks 1-64. This is before the Tyros era.
PSR8000/9000, CVP109 I think it was.

Mark

[EileenL]

Takes seconds to do. I can't understand the problem. Isn't it not worth it to know your work has been saved.

[janrhansen]

Fully agree. We've been thru this already over 40 years ago with computer programs with like 3 to 4 warnings "are you sure wu wanna overwrite" ... "Are you really sure.." "Last warning .. your about to " .. "Yes god da.. it just save the file !!" and then having to wait sometimes minutes for the diskdrive to finnish writing the file before someone got the fantastic idea of being able to turn the warnings off in the software at least we are free of the spinning drives .. can't get it all at once..  maybe some times within the next 40 years Yamaha have even added extra pop up screens with the release of the Genos 2 .. wrong way Yamaha ..

[mikf]

The 'save as' seems obvious to most of us. Don't know why that is such a big step for Yamaha. Basically you should be able to set up the song the way you want, style, tempo, voices, pedals etc,  and then just hit 'save as' ...and select where and what name. Seems straightforward.
Mike

[Fred Smith]

The 'save as' seems obvious to most of us. Don't know why that is such a big step for Yamaha. Basically you should be able to set up the song the way you want, style, tempo, voices, pedals etc,  and then just hit 'save as' ...and select where and what name. Seems straightforward.

If it's so straightforward, why did virtually every software program introduce the "Save" button, in addition to "Save As"?

Yamaha should do the same.

Cheers,
Fred

[Christophermoment]

If it's so straightforward, why did virtually every software program introduce the "Save" button, in addition to "Save As"?

Yamaha should do the same.

Cheers,
Fred

I think Yamaha believe there customers are 'smarter than the average bear' .

[mikf]

Why do they have to use an outdated organ term like 'registration' anyway. It's a keyboard set-up, why not call it that?
Mike

[KurtAgain]

Why do they have to use an outdated organ term like 'registration' anyway. It's a keyboard set-up, why not call it that?
Mike

Because that's what it's always been called. 

[mikf]

They use to say mass in Latin .... but then someone figured out it wasn't really necessary.

[KurtAgain]

Okay, another reason: Korg already uses the term Keyboard Set. (Just kidding  )

[Christophermoment]

Why do they have to use an outdated organ term like 'registration' anyway. It's a keyboard set-up, why not call it that?
Mike

Cause it's where you Register all your settings.

[andyg]

Nothing to do with registering your settings as such.

Go back a very long way and organ stops were called registers, so registration was the process of combining the various registers to create the desired sound. This was before we had the ability to store registrations. That came later on classical organs that had grown so much that it was not possible to control all the stops easily or practically. Cinema organs carried that on and eventually electronic organs. The technology used went from mechanical, to electric to electronic. Keyboards came late to that party!

So 'registration' is the correct term and it certainly isn't outdated. Why would anyone want to change it? Technics called it Panel Memory on the instruments but everyone still talked about storing registrations on them!

[mikf]

Well name change or not, if I were in Yamaha management my target for arrangers would focus on a complete re-hash of the user interface. I think this would have more momentum on sales than any additional deep features which only affect a minority of users because styles, voices and sound quality are already good enough, and improvement is getting to be marginal.
But there are some really quirky things in the current user interface which trip up all new users, ......some examples
- you have to be in the right mode to view files on memory sticks
- you want to edit voices and styles you have to enter a different section
- you want to save a song set up it takes several button presses in the right sequence
- sometimes you have to 'execute' rather than save
....I could go on and on.
The problem is that experienced users don't see the issue because they already know how, and might actually see learning all this as something of a right of passage. Maybe they even like that not everyone can do it.
I am reminded of a very good friend who was a photography enthusiast. He had cameras, meters, lenses, flash units, and was always relied on to take the family pictures. Then by the eighties everybody could buy automated point and shoot cameras, and anyone could take great pictures. Frank hated it, because he lost his family photographer status!
Mike