Create organ samples of your organ and use them in your genos or other keyboard

[wersiplayer]

Misschien niet zo'n makkelijk topic. Ik heb een wersi orgel en wil daarvan samples maken om te converteren naar mijn genos. Gezegd dat ik vroeger samples heb gemaakt voor mijn orgel in creamware formaat (sts) veel daarvan heb ik nog op mijn oude pc staan. Het sampelen op zich is niet zo een probleem. Omslachtig en tijdrovend ja maar de grootste vraag is hoe deze naar genos 2 te vertalen of omzetten?

Edit: Topic title translated to English by Roger Brenizer. Please post in English only as we are an English-speaking forum. Maarten has provided the translation of your comment in his post.

[maartenb]

I think you accidentally posted in your native language.  Please change your title to English if you want answers. 

Translation by deepl.com:
Maybe not such an easy topic. I have a wersi organ and want to make samples from it to convert to my genos. Said I used to make samples for my organ in creamware format (sts) many of which I still have on my old pc. Sampling in itself is not such a problem. Cumbersome and time consuming yes but the biggest question is how to translate or convert these to genos 2?

[wersiplayer]

I think you accidentally posted in your native language.  Please change your title to English if you want answers. 

Translation by deepl.com:
Maybe not such an easy topic. I have a wersi organ and want to make samples from it to convert to my genos. Said I used to make samples for my organ in creamware format (sts) many of which I still have on my old pc. Sampling in itself is not such a problem. Cumbersome and time consuming yes but the biggest question is how to translate or convert these to genos 2?

Sorry for that lol. I am so busy for the moment that from time to time i forget in what language the board is. thanks for translating it for me. Much apreciated.

[BogdanH]

@maarten
Thank you for translation 

@wesiplayer
Ok, if sampling sound from wersi organ is not a problem, then the remaining work you need to do goes like this:

1. It's prefferred that samples are in stereo waw format (16bit, 44100Hz). We usually try to have as short samples as possible (so resulting voice doesn't occupy too much of precious memory). I think for organ sound, sample length of about 4-6 seconds should be enough.
But it depends! The thing is, each sample must be "looped" seamlessly and so it can happen that for certain note 3 sec is enough, but for another note you'll need 7 seconds. What I'm saying is, you should start with samples of about 10 seconds length and after you find loop points you cut them to desired length -which should (hopefully) end in range of 4-6 seconds.
Btw. you need audio editing software for creating loop points.

2. You need to decide how many samples you wish per octave. You can make sample of each note, but that would really be waste of memory. In general, we can achieve very good result by using only 3-4 samples per octave. Keep in mind that organ has very wide span and so I wouldn't use more than 4 sample/octave -or you will end up with huge voice size. Not to mention, that the more samples you use, the more work you need to do.

3. In YEM you create new blank pack and then you create new blank voice inside that pack. After new voice is created, you start to import samples into that voice. At that stage you only need to be careful at assigning correct "original key" for each sample.

4. After that, fine tuning comes, where you set desired parameters, which can sometimes be a lot of work before you're happy with result -you really need to study YEM manual for that.

5. Finally you create install pack.. and if you're not happy with what you hear, then you'll need to go back to point 4, or all the way to point 1 

Yes, it's usually a LOT of work.

Bogdan

[konaboy32]

forget about that, not worth the effort!
why would you want to do that if you still have the wersi?  play the wersi, or play the g2.
or connect midi cable to the wersi and play it from the g2

[BogdanH]

@konaboy
Maybe he wish to use "wersi sound" at another place (and don't wish to transport both keyboards), or he plans to sell Wersi organ one day, or (if he succeed with good result) he can sell voice, or ... -there can be reasons.
I would say, if there's enough time and willingness to learn something new... why not? 

Bogdan

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Sample Robot and convert to SF2

[BogdanH]

I never tried Sample Robot, but I would never import SF2 directly into YEM (unless I have first carefully studied SF2 content). Because we can expect at least two problems:
1. Resulting voice can be unnecessary big (because samples are usually longer than actually needed),
2. In SF2 it can happen that L and R channel have different loop points (which YEM can't handle properly).

Just sharing my experience,
Bogdan

[robinez]

It's not that hard to do,
the most easy way is to use samplerobot and export it to SF2, then import the SF2 in yem and you can use them in your genos.

You can also assign the samples that you have created manually in yem to build your pack, so it's up to you what you prefer.

Because you are dutch, I can point you to my dutch tutorial about how to use YEM with SF2 and samples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPa8JWanDuY

If you need help with samplerobot, these tutorials are also on my youtube channel (although that process is for different synths but the concept is the same).

[wersiplayer]

forget about that, not worth the effort!
why would you want to do that if you still have the wersi?  play the wersi, or play the g2.
or connect midi cable to the wersi and play it from the g2

That is true but the genos is much more trasportable and i have friends who dont have a organ at home. But you are right. It is much easyer to connect the 2. The other thing is that i dont know if i wil hold the organ.

[wersiplayer]

Whaw, what a respons. I used chicken systems and awave in the past. For lots of samples i could simple use the build in samples and convert them. none of those softs was aible to deliver a good job for yamaha at that time but that is more then 8 years ago. Never used sample robot so i wil look up what our member has posted of that and give it a go. Pure sinus waves are easy to sample as they have no much variation exept if you want use the natural subtal nuances in it.  Separate left and right samples can be a problem if you cant loop them at the same time. Then it is better to convert them to stereo samples. I had heard of sample robot but did not need it as the 2 softs i used did everything i needed.
So you say you can imput wav files into the yamy tool and make instruments of it? Interesting indeed. The softs i used in the past could handle the task of putting them together and looping. Seems to be a lot more work with the yamy tool but time is not an isue if it gets results. The organ sounds of wersi have a special timber, different of lets say a hammond or fafisa ed. Maybe there are some tricks to fiddle that with the onboard edit posibilities? Another posibility could be to find a good working and not to expencive ox7 module as that is in ecence the drawbar engine of the older wersi organs.
And as sayed, i wil not always have the wersi to relay on.

[konaboy32]

i just don't want you to go to all this effort and time and then be inevitably unsatisfied with the result.

capturing a single static snapshot of one wersi setting will not replicate the experience of your organ.

doesn't your organs have infinite combinations of drawbars, at least dual manuals, footpedals, a swell pedal, chorus, vibrato percussion settings.

That's literally an infinite number of samples to capture the sound and experience of playing your wersi.

go ahead if you want, but sampling an instrument like an organ is useless. i've played enough sampled Hammond organs to state that as a fact. Have you noticed that all hammond organ emulations, hardware and software use modelling, not samples?

you need modelling to properly capture the sound of an organ.

once again, don't waste your time, play and make music instead!

[BogdanH]

I agree with konaboy: it will probably be waste of time.
I'm not familiar with classical/drawbar organs, but before I would try to make custom voice, I would definitely first try to edit/customize organ voices (OrganFlutes) that already exist on keyboard!

However, I try to encourage everyone to try making custom voices. One can learn a lot at that and who knows.. one day that knowledge might be useful.

Bogdan

[musicman01]

Misschien niet zo'n makkelijk topic. Ik heb een wersi orgel en wil daarvan samples maken om te converteren naar mijn genos. Gezegd dat ik vroeger samples heb gemaakt voor mijn orgel in creamware formaat (sts) veel daarvan heb ik nog op mijn oude pc staan. Het sampelen op zich is niet zo een probleem. Omslachtig en tijdrovend ja maar de grootste vraag is hoe deze naar genos 2 te vertalen of omzetten?

Edit: Topic title translated to English by Roger Brenizer. Please post in English only as we are an English-speaking forum. Maarten has provided the translation of your comment in his post.

Hello Wersiplayer,

I will now respond in English as necessary.
Judging by your language, you are probably from Belgium or the Netherlands?
I think I can say that I know how to make samples, in the past I have made sounds for the Wersi OAS Organs, mainly in sts & Akai format.
Since you mention "sts creamware" I know you most likely have an OAS system.
When you talk about Wersi organ sounds, do you mean Helios and especially the CD Line sounds?
PS: OX7 module doesn't sound like the real Wersi sounds at all!!

[wersiplayer]

Hello Wersiplayer,

I will now respond in English as necessary.
Judging by your language, you are probably from Belgium or the Netherlands?
I think I can say that I know how to make samples, in the past I have made sounds for the Wersi OAS Organs, mainly in sts & Akai format.
Since you mention "sts creamware" I know you most likely have an OAS system.
When you talk about Wersi organ sounds, do you mean Helios and especially the CD Line sounds?
PS: OX7 module doesn't sound like the real Wersi sounds at all!!

I am indeed from Belgium and i own a oas 7 organ. I mentioned the ox7 because the oas serie has an ox7 inplementation. I also have made samples for my organ and sampled them for others. I had a system and hack to use al the intern samples and packs in the softs i used. I converted many yamaha and other brand styles to wersi format cause the intern styles of the wersi where . . . . hm . . . . you know if you own one. I tried to convert to yamaha format but the soft in those days, some 8 or more years ago where not very capable to do that. I love the analoge sounds from the helios but also the cd version and sure the real wersi drawbar sounds like de oa7. the reason to sample is that i not always have my wersi with me. it is portable yes, in 3 pieces, a 22 pedal board, a second manual with feed and the pa in it and the abacus portable keyboard (it all woud and aluminium and very heavy) I found the sts format more convient to handle and manipulate. On my backup pc i stil have lots of samples made in those years in sts format so i am curious how to convert them to yamaha format or import them in the yamy tool. So all help is welcome

[wersiplayer]

If I go for sample robot wich version should I need to convert sts to yamaha genos format?