Genos2 vs Korg Pa5X

[robinez]

Having the possibility to define registration sequence and switch it with pedal is essential -it's an extension of the style actually.

then you have your answer, the korg can't do this, so then the korg isn't an option for your method of working with arrangers.

[BogdanH]

hi Robinez,
Yes, it seems so. Not that I'm into buying right now, but I like to keep my mind open for other options... also because I quite like Pa5X.
There's also another reason why I asked for clear answer: it's because many times we can get confusing answers. For example, I remember reading somewhere a while back, that on Yamaha one can only create styles by recording sequence in C-key (which I later found out, isn't true).
That is, ask twice if in doubt 

Greetings,
Bogdan

[mamero]

OP (or others that own both), if you could only choose ONE (Genos 2 OR PA5x) which would you choose and why?

[DaPaleRider]

OP (or others that own both), if you could only choose ONE (Genos 2 OR PA5x) which would you choose and why?

I had a PSR-SX900 and purchased the Genos 2.

I am considering exchanging or selling it for a Korg pa5x because there are more features that appeal to me. You can go deep into the settings, and for me, not unimportantly, use the samples that are in the Korg to create your own sounds. These devices are Arranger Workstations, but Genos does not consider it worthy of the name Workstation, it is more of an Arranger. The user-friendliness of the Genos is very high, but that is also due to the depth of setting your own settings, which is a lot less deep. I come from the synthesizer world so I'm used to it.

I think if Yamaha were to implement more advanced features, it could give the Korg pa5x a big blow, among others. It would be nice if you had an on/off setting that allows you to switch advanced functions on or off. Then everyone can choose what they want. And that is possible through software.

My biggest annoyance and loss is Seamless Sound Transition.

[BogdanH]

...if you could only choose ONE (Genos 2 OR PA5x) which would you choose and why?

We can often see such question, but the polite (no) answer is ususaly "both are good in it's own way" -to avoid starting a war.
On the other hand, even if specific answer is given, it means nothing without knowing owners background. That is, what he is looking for on keyboard, what he appreciates and what he needs. We also need to keep in mind that owning specific keyboard is many times only a matter of money one can spend and in this case keyboard is never really exploited.

Genos is a good keyboard without a doubt. But is has some annoying shortcomings (common for all Yamaha arrangers) and so we start looking at Pa5X, which it seems, doesn't have them.

I'm following the discussion on Korg forum and I notice, that Pa5X owners aren't really that happy with what they got for the money. One of the main complains seems to be, that after more than a year, OS still isn't finished and so owners are still missing some quite basic functionalities that existed on previous models. Also a big problem is, that keyboard isn't reliable (it can freeze at certain operations and similar) and so not suitable for professional use at this time.

I'm not bashing Pa5X (I like it actually), but that are the facts from owners at this moment. Will these issues be solved soon? Probably.. at least most of them. When? Well...
Genos on the other hand, lacks some capabilities that Pa5X has (SSS among others), but is reliable and has the features that suffice the majority. Too bad there isn't 61-key version -I'm speaking for myself.

So, what can be the answer to above question? I would say, it's a big compromise and so I'm glad that I don't need to decide right now.

Bogdan

[Gunnar Jonny]

A short (only personal) summary.

I have both G2 and Pa5X, and in my ears the Pa5 sounds more 'round and warm' (analog'ish), while G2 still have an edge of the too perfect digital and a kind of colder CD'ish image.
I'm using styles most of the time, that's in fact why I buy AutoCompArrangers. For me, usually 4 variations in a style is more than enough to play a song. There is far less Korg styles floating around than Yamaha's huge collection, but after added lots of available Pa4X stuff, the library has grown quite a bit so it's more easy to find styles that fit my taste. 

Korg's keys & keybed feels quite different than the Yamaha's 'more toyish and clicketyclack'. Korg's feels more tight, somewhere in between piano and synths. You need to use a bit more strenght when play.
Korg have 4 'Keyboard Set' buttons that is similiar to Yamaha's OTS. In addition, Korg have 11 favorite sound buttons easy to reach by right hand fingertips, where you can have quick access to your favorite sounds.
Another nice feature that is present at Korg, Roland and Ketron, is that we can read at the screen the sounding chords, the same as we really hear if or when there is any need to use transpose. This feature is very convient, specilally when transcript on the fly. Also great that others can see what chords playing if use additional screen. At Yamaha we see the chord of the fingered / pressed keys. An option to choose one or the other would be great.
"Sorry, this feature is impossible to add" was the message from Yamaha when I questioned some years ago if this could be an option in future models or updates. Impossible, really?
Btw, Korg also show the chord progression at the screen when play intros and endings while Yamaha show only the first pressed chord when start the intro.

Actually, I find both Pa5X and G2 to be great keyboards. It is the best of the best in that class, but it's always about personal taste and preferences. Whatever brand we choose, there will be something to like and / or to dislike.
To be honest, I don't have any need to have two TOTL arrangers. To choose wich one to be the one and only left at my stand when (or if) that time comes going to be a tough desision.
Whatever I deside, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to regret it, so I should probably keep both of them and maybe get another one as well.
Ketron?

[mamero]

Thanks for the feedback folks.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but the initial comparison by the OP leads directly to people like me who are trying to decide between one of the two arrangers and having a really hard time doing it. Both arrangers are a LOT of $$$$ and a major commitment. Both have things I really like and both have things I really don't. I'm really hoping some of you could help point me in the right direction because I keep flip flopping on my decision between the PA5X and G2. At this point I just want to decide and get on with enjoying and creating music with which ever tool I decide. Unlike many here that appear to be upgrading from some preexisting arranger, I am essentially new to the  modern arranger market  (re-entering) and have no real point of reference.

My desire and reasons for returning to the arranger market after many years away from it are several. First, I own a pretty extensive studio filled with synths of all kinds, drum machines, workstations, recording gear etc. I wont list it because that's not the point. The point is, from a production point a view I am fortunate to have everything you would need/want (within reason). The challenge is as my studio has expanded over the years, more and more "creative" time has gone in to the gear, engineering, and tech support rather than music and creativity. I have no intention to abandon my studio. It has it's place. BUT, I need to return to a tool that allows me to create easily and immediately... and have FUN again.

This leads to my second reason, convenience. Sitting down and just pushing a button and playing is very appealing. Rather than, sit at the studio, turn on all the gear, wait for everything to boot, wait for a Windows update, replace an internal battery in a piece of gear you need, why aren't the drivers working... blah blah blah.

Third, return to the "basics". My very first keyboard was a YAMAHA PSS-680 arranger. I have very fond memories of that keyboard. I played the #$%^ out of that keyboard and new it inside and out. Perhaps just 20% of the time was learning and playing existing songs. The other 80% was exploring music, jamming, creating, wood-shedding ideas, using the arranger as a tool to compose my own material. A couple years latter I added a Roland E-30 arranger and the same was true with that keyboard. Those two keyboards essentially built my foundation in music and established my life long trajectory in electronic music. A tool of this kind is lacking in my musical life despite having all the toys in my studio. I want to be able to just sit down and play and create again. I want to return to what inspired and supported my love for music exploration in the first place.

That's my background and hopefully that might help some of you guide my final decision. Beyond that I have some specific questions:

1. From a creative point of view how "locked in" to the styles are you? How flexible/open are either the PA5X or G2? Would I be happy with one more than the other in this regards? Or are both open and flexible? My impression of the G2 vs PA5X from brief in-person demos is that G2 is the tool you want to go with for "playing tunes", whereas the PA5X is the better open platform. How capable and flexible is the G2 to be open and creative rather than "lets play along with the oldies and film themes"?

2. Will YAMAHA add or "unlock" some kind of voice editing do you think? It's a real drag and very surprising the G2 has little to no voice editing? That really needs to be there in a flag ship arranger from any brand.

3. I have heard that many (or all?) of the styles on PA5X could in theory be imported to the G2 and that some already are on both keyboards? Is this true and to what extent? If so, it would make most sense to go with the G2 and import the styles from the PA5X (unsure how you would do this). Then you have the best of both on the G2, at least from a style/arranger point of view. Is this reasoning reasonable?

Thanks again folks! More questions likely to come.

[EileenL]

My a lot of questions and we can't really give you the answer because we all use these keyboards differently and want different things from them. You need to try them for yourself and see if they suit what you want from them.

[BogdanH]

hello mamero,
I don't have Genos, but because the OS is pretty much identical to SX900/700, allow me to give you something to think about (now that I know your background)...

1. About Genos being "locked"... For those who dig really deep, it is. For example, on Yamaha we can customize (edit) voices only to certain degree, which is in most cases sufficient. However we can not modify voices at voice sample (wav) level. That is, every voice has fundamental settings already applied by Yamaha and we can not change that. On top of those settings, there are user settings, which we can change (tonal settings, effects, etc.) -and as said, that's in most cases enough for normal music.

2. I don't believe that Yamaha will change that approach -because many Yamaha owners appreciate simplicity and as I said above, on Yamaha we still have enough room to customize the sound to our liking.

3. From what I know, Korg styles can't be directly imported on Yamaha (certain conversion tools and knowledge is needed for that). But I really wouldn't worry about styles: we are talking about arranger keyboards, where we can create and customize styles as much we desire -only knowledge and time is the limit.

Better question would be how "open" are Yamaha arranger keyboards? And the answer is: I have SX700 for four years now and even I consider myself as a curious/creative person, I still don't know everything! I constantly realize how I can do things that I thought are impossible to be done on my keyboard.

I might be wrong, but from what you said, I think you would be happier with Genos.

Bogdan

[DaPaleRider]

When I look at both instruments I see the following. Both instruments have very good arranger functions such as styles and ready-made sounds. Supported with nice effects and the ability to do production work.
If you want to change or even create styles and sounds at a detailed level, you quickly need functions that you only find in synthesizers. That's where the pa5x stands out. In fact, the pa5x is an arranger/workstation and synthesizer and the Genos2 is an arranger/workstation.

The latter is also the reason why I am thinking about exchanging my Genos 2 with the Korg pa5x. I come from the synthesizer world and am used to making my own sounds a lot personally. And yes, you can download expansion packs for Genos for free and there are a lot of them on the market to buy. And really good ones too. But you have to buy them because you can't make them yourself.

It would be a good move on Yamaha's part to include functionality with a major update that would make it possible to create your own sounds based on all the samples stored in the Genos2. Likewise, there is now an FM synthesizer engine available where you can do much more. And how about, as I wrote before, the possibility of making arpeggios yourself. Sufficient quantities are supplied, there are many in the ready-made styles, but it is not possible to make them yourself.

It just depends on what you want. If you want to be able to play and enjoy the styles, sounds and effects, then Genos is a top product. If you want to have control over your sounds, the pa5x is masterful.

I wish Yamaha would be a little more open about future updates. That would also help people make a good choice.

[DaPaleRider]

I don't believe that Yamaha will change that approach -because many Yamaha owners appreciate simplicity.

Totally agree. A solution would be to create a software button in system settings that allows users to turn advanced options on or off. Then everyone can choose for themselves and Yamaha will attract even more potential buyers

[rphillipchuk]

Both machines are powerful and capable keyboards in their own ways.

Korg PA5X
- You can go very deep into editing if you have the understanding to do so.
- You can do very specific "effect" editing, again if you have the understanding to do so.
- Built solid and very pleasing to the eyes.
- Powerful capabilities but only for the experienced who can understand it and exploit all.
- Styles are more modern if you are into artists like "Imagine Dragons, Taylor Swift, K'naan, Cardi B, etc"
- Styles are not as plentiful as for Genos but if you have the understanding to do so, the sky is the limit.

Genos
- Of course editing is available but to what degree is needed ? A lot of Users including myself, just want to play a style and be able to change sounds.
- You can edit effects but not to the extensive degree of the PA5X.
- The vast selection of styles available is Yamaha's strongest point and should not be ignored !

I am not that critical about sounds, to me they both sound great to my old ears.

If you like to dig deep and you are critical about sound qualities and are comfortable with effects and mixing, the PA5X is for you but if you are all about Song Styles, basic editing and ease of use, the Genos is for you.

These are only my views on how I will choose when it's time for me to purchase.

[DrakeM]

Hello mamero

With regard to you wanting to know how creative the Yamaha keyboards are let me assure you they are not limited at all.  I have a personal YouTube channel on which I have posted over 200 videos of me using the arranger keyboard and none of the covers do I use a Preset Yamaha style. Each style I use is one I put together by easily assembling different parts of the thousands of Yamaha preset styles from all their previous keyboards.

In some of the styles I have incorporated my own recorded riffs and licks. Which can again easily be added to any Yamaha style by simply recording the lick in the PAD section of the style and using the MAJ setting and not the default CM7 setting.

The reason I make my own styles is Yamaha only has about 26 Country preset styles. I have made well over 400 custom song styles to meet my needs to gig. I also have examples posted using POP song styles as well. If you want play current songs, you pretty much are going to have to learn to put together your own styles. That probably goes for any make of an arranger.

But pick ONE wisely and stick with it because if you switch brands all the work you put into making your own personal custom styles are then useless to you. 

Regards
Drake

[robinez]

...

My desire and reasons for returning to the arranger market after many years away from it are several. First, I own a pretty extensive studio filled with synths of all kinds, drum machines, workstations, recording gear etc. I wont list it because that's not the point. The point is, from a production point a view I am fortunate to have everything you would need/want (within reason). The challenge is as my studio has expanded over the years, more and more "creative" time has gone in to the gear, engineering, and tech support rather than music and creativity. I have no intention to abandon my studio. It has it's place. BUT, I need to return to a tool that allows me to create easily and immediately... and have FUN again.

This leads to my second reason, convenience. Sitting down and just pushing a button and playing is very appealing. Rather than, sit at the studio, turn on all the gear, wait for everything to boot, wait for a Windows update, replace an internal battery in a piece of gear you need, why aren't the drivers working... blah blah blah.

...

That's my background and hopefully that might help some of you guide my final decision.

I'm in the same position as you, I also have a rather large studio and use the Genos 1 and the Pa5X just for fun when I don't want to fire up my daw's and have to create a basic arrangement to play along with it. The arrangers are just fun to play and try out things, because they give you immediately a style and some backing tracks to play along with.

So based on your requirements, background and experience level I'm confident to say that the Yamaha Genos 2 is not an option for you, It's way to limited for your requirements and studio experience level and the things you want to do with it. The Korg Pa5X suits your user profile a lot more.


I would really like to advise you to watch my Genos and Korg Pa5X tutorials, that way you can see what kind of things you can do with it and it's way more easy for you to see what the limits of both arrangers are.

Here is a link to my pa5x playlist which covers around 60 percent of the possibilities of the Pa5X, ranging from style demos and synth tutorials to style making.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krORek_EF3g&list=PLx607dnAaOs7Shjom_OCKnGJh03fIU0JK

Beyond that I have some specific questions:

1. From a creative point of view how "locked in" to the styles are you? How flexible/open are either the PA5X or G2? Would I be happy with one more than the other in this regards? Or are both open and flexible? My impression of the G2 vs PA5X from brief in-person demos is that G2 is the tool you want to go with for "playing tunes", whereas the PA5X is the better open platform. How capable and flexible is the G2 to be open and creative rather than "lets play along with the oldies and film themes"?

The G2 is not that open, you can create your own sounds by importing soundfonts or adding wav files in an external program called YEM, it contains some basic editing tools to create the sounds, don't expect the same depth as real synths, but some basic subtractive synthesis features on the imported samples can be done.

The Pa5X is completely open, you have a 24 oscillator synth onboard that can be programmed on the pa5X, you can add till 8 gigabytes of your own samples, there are advanced features like slices on board to create audio loops in styles, it all can be done on the pa5x itself.

The Synth is a subtractive synth with the samples of the history of korg keyboards on board, but it's very easy to add your own samples and create the multisamples for it. I use Samplerobot for this to sample my hardware and VST's and you can load those looped wav files in KMP format on the pa5X (this will create a multisample with the zones automatically defined), or you can load samples directly on the pa5x to create your multisamples yourself. You can load your own multisamples directly in the synthesizer on the pa5x, which even supports wave sequencing!

Also adding new styles on the pa5x is really easy to do, you need an external DAW for that that has to support Labels (the korg imports styles based on labeled sections), but once you know how to do this (there are tutorials for this on my channel), then it takes around 10 minutes to convert a midi file to a style, or around 5 minutes to convert a yamaha style to a korg style once you have setup a default template in your daw and pa5x. It's very easy this way.

Keep in mind that if you want do things like Quick Record in a midi file, that that is not possible on a pa5x, it has a sequencer on board but that only supports the manual recording of the 16 midi channels. Quick recording of a style is supported on the Genos 2. So if that is important to you, then be aware that for now that is a missing feature on the pa5x (it will be added later, but nobody knows when).

2. Will YAMAHA add or "unlock" some kind of voice editing do you think? It's a real drag and very surprising the G2 has little to no voice editing? That really needs to be there in a flag ship arranger from any brand.

I doubt that yamaha will do this, they still are using YEM for this on the PC. That doesn't mean that you can't do any synth editing on the Genos. It supports a few basic actions like setting the cutoff, resonance, AMP ADSR, and some basic LFO movement. So you can do some basic editing.

The korg has full synth editing possibilities on the pa5x itself.

3. I have heard that many (or all?) of the styles on PA5X could in theory be imported to the G2 and that some already are on both keyboards? Is this true and to what extent? If so, it would make most sense to go with the G2 and import the styles from the PA5X (unsure how you would do this). Then you have the best of both on the G2, at least from a style/arranger point of view. Is this reasoning reasonable?

Thanks again folks! More questions likely to come.

No that is not true, the Pa5X styles are using advanced programming tricks with up till 6 chord variations per style element including lot's of CC programming, this is also because the korg styles are using more songs from nowadays like:  Breathe - Jax Jones, Are you ready for it - Taylor Swift, Please me - Cardi B. & Bruno Mars, I'll make it up to you - Imagine Dragons, and more, these styles are programmed with so much detail due to the CC and style programming tricks. This is really hard to convert to a yamaha style, also for that advanced programming you need external tools to set a so called CASM block in the yamaha style. In theory when spending a lot of hours and rebuilding a style from a korg you can create a Genos style, but it's so much work that I never have seen anyone doing it. For older Korg styles it probably is easier to do.

Converting yamaha styles to the pa5x is easier, especially if you are converting tyros styles which only has 8 tracks in most cases, those styles can be converted in a few minutes once you have some experience. Genos styles are harder to convert to the pa5x, they have 16 channels so you need to modify them to 8 tracks in your DAW and when a genos styles using sounds with specific note and programming codes then you have to modify that manually. It takes around one hour to recreate it on the pa5x for an experienced user. I've done a couple just to see if it was possible, but now I convert most of the times the Tyros or 'more simple' genos styles to the pa5x whenever I need a specific song cover.


So I hope this answers your questions, keep in mind that you are asking this on a yamaha forum, so normally I wouldn't go in to too much depth on this, but based on your background story I'm really sure that the Genos is not the thing you are looking for, so I give you here the more 'producer type' of answers for your question.

But that doesn't mean that the Genos is not a good arranger, Actually when your user profile would be that you only want to play song covers in CD quality, then the advice would definitely be to go for the yamaha genos, nothing comes close to the amount of styles available for the genos.

[rphillipchuk]

Well said  "Qui ".  Honest advice !

[mamero]

Thanks for the guidance and feedback everyone. Some really great perspectives here. I've been thinking about the PA5X and GENOS 2 further based on my background and goals.

My primary goal for returning to an arranger is to use it as a tool for creating and inspiration; not for final production and not for playing out live (although there may be some of this). While the PA5X might seem like the right arranger, maybe it's not? For production I have my entire studio at my disposal. Typically, arrangers are pretty good at many things but not great at specifics. For example if, I a created a synth pop song on either arranger and deemed it worthy enough to finalize it in to a product for distribution, I likely would not need or want to create the final product in the arranger (in one box). Essentially, the arranger is a tool for creating, writing, and arranging demos. Not final production. Once I have what would be considered a demo I would export a MIDI file, load it up in my DAW, and begin assigning parts to other dedicated gear that does certain roles best. I.E, bass part to an analog mono synth, digital synth parts to a Fantom, and so on. From there I could edit the tones and do whatever. As long as there is enough sound selection and edit ability in either arranger to get close that's likely all that's needed and probably preferred. So, on the surface it may seem that the PA5X is the better arranger for the more technically minded, synth focused, and/or those with a lot of gear, maybe it's actually NOT?! Maybe the GENOS 2 is actually the better choice because it focuses more on what an arranger actually does best, being an arranger! There is less duplication of what other available gear offers, less time wasted going down rabbit holes like programing sounds and FX which ultimately would be done outboard. Most importantly, there is less distraction which allows you to get down to creating, inspiration, and spontaneity; my entire point of getting a pro arranger.

Does this thought process hold water?

[Christophermoment]

Thanks for the guidance and feedback everyone. Some really great perspectives here. I've been thinking about the PA5X and GENOS 2 further based on my background and goals.

My primary goal for returning to an arranger is to use it as a tool for creating and inspiration; not for final production and not for playing out live (although there may be some of this). While the PA5X might seem like the right arranger, maybe it's not? For production I have my entire studio at my disposal. Typically, arrangers are pretty good at many things but not great at specifics. For example if, I a created a synth pop song on either arranger and deemed it worthy enough to finalize it in to a product for distribution, I likely would not need or want to create the final product in the arranger (in one box). Essentially, the arranger is a tool for creating, writing, and arranging demos. Not final production. Once I have what would be considered a demo I would export a MIDI file, load it up in my DAW, and begin assigning parts to other dedicated gear that does certain roles best. I.E, bass part to an analog mono synth, digital synth parts to a Fantom, and so on. From their I could edit the tones and do whatever. As long as there is enough sound selection and edit ability in either arranger to get close that's likely all that's needed and probably preferred. So, on the surface it may seem that the PA5X is the better arranger for the more technically minded, synth focused, and/or those with a lot of gear, maybe it's actually NOT?! Maybe the GENOS 2 is actually the better choice because it focuses more on what an arranger actually does best, being an arranger! There is less duplication of what other available gear offers, less time wasted going down rabbit holes like programing sounds and FX which ultimately would be done outboard. Most importantly, there is less distraction which allows you to get down to creating, inspiration, and spontaneity; my entire point of getting a pro arranger.

Does this thought process hold water?

Get the Genos2.  All of the other keyboards from other manufactures have their pros and cons, but at the end of the day Yamaha is the best. Not an opinion, this is fact borne out by the marketplace. 

[EileenL]

Yes I have to agree. Genos2 is an absolute joy to play and inspires you to want to create lovely music.

[Tommy 73]

robinez, gives a compelling and thoughtful summary, and explains well why I have a PA5X and my friend is about to take delivery of his Genos 2, and importantly we both respect each others choice, with both of us having much interest between both keyboards

[ton37]

Thanks for the guidance and feedback everyone. Some really great perspectives here. I've been thinking about the PA5X and GENOS 2 further based on my background and goals.

My primary goal for returning to an arranger is to use it as a tool for creating and inspiration; not for final production and not for playing out live (although there may be some of this). While the PA5X might seem like the right arranger, maybe it's not? For production I have my entire studio at my disposal. Typically, arrangers are pretty good at many things but not great at specifics. For example if, I a created a synth pop song on either arranger and deemed it worthy enough to finalize it in to a product for distribution, I likely would not need or want to create the final product in the arranger (in one box). Essentially, the arranger is a tool for creating, writing, and arranging demos. Not final production. Once I have what would be considered a demo I would export a MIDI file, load it up in my DAW, and begin assigning parts to other dedicated gear that does certain roles best. I.E, bass part to an analog mono synth, digital synth parts to a Fantom, and so on. From there I could edit the tones and do whatever. As long as there is enough sound selection and edit ability in either arranger to get close that's likely all that's needed and probably preferred. So, on the surface it may seem that the PA5X is the better arranger for the more technically minded, synth focused, and/or those with a lot of gear, maybe it's actually NOT?! Maybe the GENOS 2 is actually the better choice because it focuses more on what an arranger actually does best, being an arranger! There is less duplication of what other available gear offers, less time wasted going down rabbit holes like programing sounds and FX which ultimately would be done outboard. Most importantly, there is less distraction which allows you to get down to creating, inspiration, and spontaneity; my entire point of getting a pro arranger.

Does this thought process hold water?

If it comes to get  'what is the best' there is 1 (only one) outcome to judge: the quality of the sound of your song! How to get that is a complex process with all kinds of variables and reading your workflow with several digital instruments of YOUR liking. In the end your ears and feeling will tell you if you are most satisfied with the result and have really enjoyed the process. That's what making music gives you, not having a Genos2 or PAX5 or Ketron.

[MadrasGiaguari]

Dear Robinez,

as a past user of Korg flagships (i3, i30, Pa1x, Pa3x) I obviously miss some of the Styles I used to play with.

Since I moved to Yamaha (about 7 years ago) I've been searching for Korg Styles converted to Yamaha (presently I have a Genos1), but what I found was less than decent.
I'm aware that conversion from Korg to Yamaha is quite difficult because of Korg Style structure (CHORD Variations... I think).

Could you kindly indicate where I could find GOOD (or reasonably decent) conversions? Of course also files to pay for would be interesting.

Thank you,

Angelo

[robinez]

Dear Robinez,

as a past user of Korg flagships (i3, i30, Pa1x, Pa3x) I obviously miss some of the Styles I used to play with.

Since I moved to Yamaha (about 7 years ago) I've been searching for Korg Styles converted to Yamaha (presently I have a Genos1), but what I found was less than decent.
I'm aware that conversion from Korg to Yamaha is quite difficult because of Korg Style structure (CHORD Variations... I think).

Could you kindly indicate where I could find GOOD (or reasonably decent) conversions? Of course also files to pay for would be interesting.

As far as I know there aren't any good conversions from korg to yamaha styles available. The only way to get them is to invest the time yourself to create them , but basically this means that you export the style from a korg and then manually create a yamaha style from it based on the midi note information. That is a lot of work so nobody does it, so you have to do this yourself if you really want those styles on a yamaha.

The other way around from yamaha to korg is way more easy, just rename the STY file to .MID and change the labels, import it on the korg and do the revoicing (if needed).

[Danny1972]

Maybe the GENOS 2 is actually the better choice because it focuses more on what an arranger actually does best, being an arranger!

Hello mamero,

I have both instruments and really enjoy them both, but for me I still think the Pa5x is the more professional out of the two in just about every way, from the build quality, to the editing options available, to the arrangements of the styles. However, if you're looking for an arranger that gives you a fantastic sound right out of the box, with so many styles you can play to known songs very quickly you will absolutely have a lot of fun with a Genos2 for many years, it's a beautiful keyboard. I use them both differently and that's what keeps it very fresh.

Ultimately though, nobody here can make the choice for you. If you are already leaning one way within your inner self, go with that instinct as it's usually the right one.

[valimaties]

As far as I know there aren't any good conversions from korg to yamaha styles available. The only way to get them is to invest the time yourself to create them , but basically this means that you export the style from a korg and then manually create a yamaha style from it based on the midi note information. That is a lot of work so nobody does it, so you have to do this yourself if you really want those styles on a yamaha.

The other way around from yamaha to korg is way more easy, just rename the STY file to .MID and change the labels, import it on the korg and do the revoicing (if needed).

That's the easy way when the style does not contains a guitar mode track. Guitar mode from Korg is different than Yamaha's one. And definitely much more eficient in Korg.
If such a track is present in style you must rewrite it yourself on Korg or viceversa, depending for what keyboard you want to convert. But, in my experience I found that rewriting the style from scratch has a better results on both keyboards, directly with voices which you want to use.

[MadrasGiaguari]

Thank you Robinez and Valimates for your kind answers/explanations.

Unfortunately they are further confirmation of what I scared.

However, I am surprised that no style production specialist dedicates himself to these conversions. IMHO there are many Yamaha arrangers owners who would pay for such conversions.

Ciao,

Angelo

[cyber swine]

I have both instruments and really enjoy them both, but for me I still think the Pa5x is the more professional out of the two in just about every way, from the build quality, to the editing options available, to the arrangements of the styles. However, if you're looking for an arranger that gives you a fantastic sound right out of the box, with so many styles you can play to known songs very quickly you will absolutely have a lot of fun with a Genos2 for many years, it's a beautiful keyboard. I use them both differently and that's what keeps it very fresh.

What he said x2

[mamero]

Two more questions

1. If you add the optional speaker system to the G2 how much do the satellite speakers interfere with having a second keyboard above?

2. Between the G2 and PA5X which is the best (easiest, quickest, etc) at creating a new style from scratch? If you are like me and like to compose your own songs you also like and need to hash out the arrangement and backing as you work. How quick and easy is it to build up your own style from the ground up based on what you hear in your head vs having to select and adapt an existing style? From a creative point of you, the more time you spend auditioning styles and/or adapting them the more your initial inspiration is likely to go out the window. Usually it's best to put down your own ideas right away even if they are less refined or complete than what's already in the box.

[Amwilburn]

1. From a creative point of view how "locked in" to the styles are you? How flexible/open are either the PA5X or G2? Would I be happy with one more than the other in this regards? Or are both open and flexible? My impression of the G2 vs PA5X from brief in-person demos is that G2 is the tool you want to go with for "playing tunes", whereas the PA5X is the better open platform. How capable and flexible is the G2 to be open and creative rather than "lets play along with the oldies and film themes"?

2. Will YAMAHA add or "unlock" some kind of voice editing do you think? It's a real drag and very surprising the G2 has little to no voice editing? That really needs to be there in a flag ship arranger from any brand.

3. I have heard that many (or all?) of the styles on PA5X could in theory be imported to the G2 and that some already are on both keyboards? Is this true and to what extent? If so, it would make most sense to go with the G2 and import the styles from the PA5X (unsure how you would do this). Then you have the best of both on the G2, at least from a style/arranger point of view. Is this reasoning reasonable?

Thanks again folks! More questions likely to come.

1. Styles are Yamaha's biggest strength, but Korg is no slouch (they are especially good with 80's pop and rock, modern Dance & Hip Hop & R&B). But do you know why there are thousands of times more files for Yamaha than Korg? What Christophermoment said: borne out by the marketplace. There are more Yamaha's sold, hence more Yamaha users, hence more Yamaha users making content.

Does that automatically make Yamaha better? Not necessarily; it just makes them more convenient (to find a specific song style, etc). But even after the release of the G2, which sounds *real* vs canned? I still maintain that the drums (especially kick & snare) have more punch on PA5x, and the bass too (although they aren't as real as new S.Art 2 and S.Art basses on G2, they still have more punch)

2. Funny thing, Yamaha used to have voice edit. T4, T5, and I think even T2 and T3 (I'd forgotten until pjd reminded me!) You know why they took it out? Virtually *nobody* used it (plus, it takes a while to load custom voices from the hard drive into ram every time you turned it on). I've worked here for over 2 decades (yes I started in '76, but it wasn't all in 1 go) and during the entire decade or so that Yamaha had voice edit, not one customer asked me how to use it (and they ask me everything else, including how to make styles. Which i've done on both. Maybe it's just familiarity, but I can create a new style from scratch approx 10 x faster on Yamaha os than Korg, but on the flipside, I like the real time chord-change quantizing on Korg, and you don't need Yamaha's Tool to access all the varation changes)

3. Styles could in theory be imported easily to both; they both have midi to style.
However, it definitely takes a lot of work to clean them up to professional levels.

Mark

[Akki]

We could perhaps change thread topic to: Genos2 vs Korg Pa5X vs Ketron EVM

https://www.ketron.it/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/3-Ante-ING-Event-EVM-10-alta_BASSA.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JyfD-S0NYCE

This one for sure will be part of my small "collection"

[Tommy 73]

We could perhaps change thread topic to: Genos2 vs Korg Pa5X vs Ketron EVM

https://www.ketron.it/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/3-Ante-ING-Event-EVM-10-alta_BASSA.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JyfD-S0NYCE

This one for sure will be part of my small "collection"

https://youtube.com/shorts/JyfD-S0NYCE?si=0sIrkpH8oBEmUUfZ

Yep, have a strong eye on this one...

A concept other manufacturers should take notice of...

Having a 3rd opinion like this in the Event line-up can only be good for business, I think this will be a popular for many reasons Ketron has clearly thought about...

Now we have Montage M ESP (VST3), only Montage M owner at the moment, im sure that will change by the end of the year, so maybe GENOS2 VST3 equivalent might be coming down the pipe???

But, certainly having a Genos2 box and ipad Ui would be appealing.