First impressions of the Genos2 after a few hours

[maartenb]

PROS

• The sound is fantastic. I don't play a keyboard anymore, I play music.
• The display is very clear and easy to read.
• The extra 5 degrees angle for the sub and main displays may seem small, but makes a big difference. Both screens are very easy and comfortable to read. I don't need a tiltable screen now.
• The main display is more sensitive to the touch. I don't have to press so hard.
• The system seems a tad faster, more responsive
• The LEDs around the knobs and next to the faders are a godsend. I barely used them on G1, now I use them without thinking and without audio jumps.
• With organ flutes, the LED bars next to the faders light the other way around, from top to bottom, just as I expected. Very intuitive.
• The three assignable buttons on the far left brings back fade in/out, while the rotary slow/fast is simultaneously accessible
• The assignable buttons have three states: dark, blue, red. Therefore it's easy to see what their status is.
• The top casing seems to have a different texture. It now looks a bit more modern and is very nice to the touch.
• When you start a chord sequence, which is simple to do with the new buttons, the key split disappears. Now you have the whole 76 key range for your solo, even when Acc. is still on. As soon as you stop the chord playback, the split is back and you can play chords with your left hand again. Neat! (I can't remember if the G1 works the same way, so maybe this is not new.)

CONS

• The style MovieBallad glitches like crazy, rendering it unusable. If you are a tiny bit off-beat, and even if you press the same chord multiple times, you hear loud and unpleasant squeaks.
• Organ flute drawbars don't catch. The value jumps the moment you touch a fader. Your organ sound therefore suddenly changes, too.
• The ink on the buttons is on the outside, the same side you press your fingertip on. Whether this ink will fade after intensive use, only time will tell. Don't rub, but press the buttons. 
• Chord sequences can't be renamed. There is no menu option for that. The chord sequences are called CLD_001, CLD_002, etc. The workaround is to Export a single chord sequence, give it a new name like "Intro (Dm)" or "Verse 2" and then Import it back into the chord sequences bank. Complicated and time consuming.
• Chord sequences can't be quantized. There is no menu option for that.
• The style sometimes sounds different when I use a G1 registration. Selecting the style after pressing the registration gives me the G2 sound mix. This means I'll have to redo my registrations. Maybe this is normal, I don't know.

Maarten

[Gunnar Jonny]

Thanks so much for the report Maarten.
Always interesting to read users' experiences, good and bad.
As for the 'cons', I guess it's the way it always is, the customers are the best beta testers Yamaha has, and totally free! I think it's called business. 
Now it's just to hope that wishes, and not least, bugs and errors that are discovered are caught by Yamaha's staff, so that the updates are downloadable until I decide to replace the G1. 
Wishing you all the best and lots of fun with your new G2! 

[ton37]

Thnx. Maarten, your first PROS-line is the most important thing... well said!

Yes, tell me one complex digital product what is 100% bugs-free. It is common use where we, consumers, have to live with. So firmware version G2 - 1.0 will arrive soon

[Bill]

Hi Maarten

Many thanks for the constructive review, it's the detail that counts.  I was not able to get to any shop demo's, and normally I would not make a purchase without trying one myself, but since I got a really good price I have placed my order. Let's hope I don't regret it.  There are several things that are a problem for me, although I can live with the short coming so far, many more though may convince me to cancel.

Thanks again
Bill

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Maarten

Thanks for you review.
Does the print on the buttons look better quality than Genos 1?
With any change over even from Tyros 5 to Genos we still had to upgrade our own registrations.
I remember on the Tyros my War of the Worlds registration had changed and my nuances were all gone.
With all this easy style making things should be quick to modify to your own taste.
There will be a few glitches here and there no doubt which Yamaha will make updates for i assume.
Have fun. I am and Oxford Russ are waiting for the all go to collect from E -Piano's Uk.
We both do not trust todays couriers, like Yodel, Up's, Herme's etc. I have seen them throw items about, drivers make all vans contents fall over and tumble everywhere when braking hard. Common knowledge.

The worst thing i have ever seen is going though the Panama Canal on a cruise. At one of the docks i saw Radio's Tv's and computers just thrown on to shutes banging and tumbling everywere. It was like a shot put contest between the workers.

All the Best
John

[soundphase]

Thank you for your report, Marteen.

"The sound is fantastic". I have two questions (compared to G1):

1/ Are piano really very different?

2/ Globally, what kind of improvements did you detect? 
(For samples that are on Genos1, the sound is "more precise", "clearer", has a better reverb, has a better equalization ?) . I know it's not easy to explain such feelings.

Thank you in advance.

[ton37]

You have to listen yourself is the best way to experience the 'feel'. And it is for sure different 

This is the tecnical explanation (you've probably read that on Yamaha, but if you missed or for others):
'New Pianos
Many of Genos 2's piano voices have been newly sampled, and recorded double in length, so that means much longer before you get the loop and the sound is much richer.

They sample all 88 of the keys for each model, using a specially made machine which plays each note at different velocities, this ensures that when you play with different intensities, it still sounds authentic.

and it goes through: REVelation (which effect is automatically ON if you start the KB)
The sound quality on Genos 2 is just amazing. Most of the sounds are using brand new samples, and everything is now going through what we call REVelation reverb, a groundbreaking sound processor (I think they mean: sound-plugin) developed by one of Yamaha's subsidiaries, "Steinberg".

This processor makes the sounds really come to life, and gives them texture'

[soundphase]

Marteen, could you give me your own feedback please?
Thank you.

[ton37]

Ofcourse, it is @Maartens' post, so I have no intension to take over his post. But my reaction was based on the fact that I had the opportunity to compare them side by side. I tried to add reverb and sustain to the G1, but didn 't succed in getting the same 'fantastic' sound (in my ears and feeling) as it was on the G2. I think @maarten will share his own experience. 
PS. 'fantastic' is an emotional qualification. Difficult for me to describe, that's why I wrote: try listen yourself if possible

[maartenb]

1/ Are piano really very different?

Let me phrase it like this: This is the first time I take pianos as a solo instrument seriously on a Yamaha arranger. With the exception of the lighter touch of the FSX keybed, I feel like I am playing a real grand.

The new reverb REVelation makes a difference, the longer sample length, the individual samples for each key and more dynamic layers (7 instead of 5, according to a German video). They all add up.

And, the new voices are great: the Schimmel grand, the Felt Piano and upright piano.

Have a listen and judge for yourself (it's in German, but you can use auto translate if you wish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw8O0YelBR8

2/ Globally, what kind of improvements did you detect? 
(For samples that are on Genos1, the sound is "more precise", "clearer", has a better reverb, has a better equalization ?) . I know it's not easy to explain such feelings.

It just feels real. Real instruments.


Maarten

[GrannyRocks]

Thank you. That video was very encouraging. Improved piano is one of the most important hopes that I had. Can't wait to get mine.

[soryt]

I am very disappointed that the Yamaha sound packs don't work in the G2 , the commercial pack I bought in the past are now useless , and I find it a big disgrace that they don't tested it before they launched the Genos2. Also the replacement of the smal OLED screen fore a cheap lcd screen isn't an improvement.
But after 6 years of use I am really happy with the sound improvements and new dials with light and light strings, and I hope that Yamaha can solve the Yem and sound packs problems soon .

[Michael Trigoboff]

Chord sequences can't be renamed. There is no menu option for that. The chord sequences are called CLD_001, CLD_002, etc. The workaround is to Export a single chord sequence, give it a new name like "Intro (Dm)" or "Verse 2" and then Import it back into the chord sequences bank. Complicated and time consuming.

Same as on Genos 1. A real nuisance!

[p$manK32]

• The style sometimes sounds different when I use a G1 registration. Selecting the style after pressing the registration gives me the G2 sound mix. This means I'll have to redo my registrations. Maybe this is normal, I don't know.

Maybe it's just me but re-doing registrations would be a big problem for me. I would be upgrading from SX900 registrations so it probably would be even worse. Maybe certain styles used in the G1 registrations need revoicing instead of re-doing the registrations?

Rich

[EileenL]

The Yamaha Packs are now all free so you just need to download them and they should work in Version 10 of the YEM. If you purchase third party packs then you have to get in touch with them and see if they are updating them.

[Amwilburn]

I am very disappointed that the Yamaha sound packs don't work in the G2 , the commercial pack I bought in the past are now useless , and I find it a big disgrace that they don't tested it before they launched the Genos2. Also the replacement of the smal OLED screen fore a cheap lcd screen isn't an improvement.
But after 6 years of use I am really happy with the sound improvements and new dials with light and light strings, and I hope that Yamaha can solve the Yem and sound packs problems soon .

You already have a G2, and you've already tried to put your existing sound sample libraries onto G2 and they don't work?!? Yeah that's a big issue!

Mark

[maartenb]

Does the print on the buttons look better quality than Genos 1?

It looks the same as Genos (1). That doesn't mean it is the same, though. It's impossible to tell by just looking at it and feeling it.

Also I can't notice if the hinges are improved. So far, they just work. 

Just train yourself to press down and not slightly forwards or backwards at the same time, if possible.

Time will tell.


Maarten

[pjd]

Have a listen and judge for yourself (it's in German, but you can use auto translate if you wish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw8O0YelBR8
Maarten

Thanks, Maarten, I gave it a listen. Repeating the summary I posted elsewhere:

The CFX is new. The Genos1 CFX is five strike levels (incorrectly called "layers") and the Genos2 is seven strike levels. Everything is more finely resolved and the sustain phase has been doubled. Listening to the demo, I'd say it's been improved! I've been playing a lot of Clavinovas lately. Genos2 is not up to that level, but it is more than respectable.

The presenters spent a lot of time on the new REVelation Hall reverb and praise it for "enlivening" the piano sound. After hearing it on the Genos2 CFX, I agree.

They touched on the Character piano, cinematic piano and felt piano. The Character piano is a piano with "rough edges" and demonstrated it with a Scott Joplin rag. The Cinematic piano is programmed to sound mysterious. Think theme from the movie "Halloween." The Felt piano is softened by felt wound through the strings. I have the felt piano on MODX and play it. The Genos2 REVelation reverb makes it sound damned good. Really.

-- pj

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I am very disappointed that the Yamaha sound packs don't work in the G2 , the commercial pack I bought in the past are now useless , and I find it a big disgrace that they don't tested it before they launched the Genos2. Also the replacement of the smal OLED screen fore a cheap lcd screen isn't an improvement.
But after 6 years of use I am really happy with the sound improvements and new dials with light and light strings, and I hope that Yamaha can solve the Yem and sound packs problems soon .

Have i not read somewhere that we are waiting for a new YEM for Genos 2 ??

[BogdanH]

Have i not read somewhere that we are waiting for a new YEM for Genos 2 ??

With Genos2, YEM has been updated to v2.10 so it can recognize new keyboard. There's no need for "new" YEM because Genos2 works the same way as previous keyboards.

Bogdan

[Gunnar Jonny]

Have i not read somewhere that we are waiting for a new YEM for Genos 2 ??

Yes, so did I, and also a quote of the reply from Yamaha support that they is aware of the problem with v2.10 and that there will be a new update soon.

[soundphase]

Thanks, Maarten, I gave it a listen. Repeating the summary I posted elsewhere:

The CFX is new. The Genos1 CFX is five strike levels (incorrectly called "layers") and the Genos2 is seven strike levels. Everything is more finely resolved and the sustain phase has been doubled. Listening to the demo, I'd say it's been improved! I've been playing a lot of Clavinovas lately. Genos2 is not up to that level, but it is more than respectable.

The presenters spent a lot of time on the new REVelation Hall reverb and praise it for "enlivening" the piano sound. After hearing it on the Genos2 CFX, I agree.

They touched on the Character piano, cinematic piano and felt piano. The Character piano is a piano with "rough edges" and demonstrated it with a Scott Joplin rag. The Cinematic piano is programmed to sound mysterious. Think theme from the movie "Halloween." The Felt piano is softened by felt wound through the strings. I have the felt piano on MODX and play it. The Genos2 REVelation reverb makes it sound damned good. Really.

-- pj

I wonder if the "7 layers" is a sign of more important changes in the operating system/hardware .... Hope it is the case, we could then see new sounds appear progressively.

[Des O]

I am sure any issues are being worked on for the next software update soon.

[BogdanH]

I wonder if the "7 layers" is a sign of more important changes in the operating system/hardware .... Hope it is the case, we could then see new sounds appear progressively.

All Yamaha arrangers already support up to 8 layers per voice. How many of them are used depends only on what we wish to achieve with voice. Typical example would be piano on first layer and strings (which serves as padding) on second layer -that way we get two instruments in a single voice. There are other cases where using more than one layer (by using single sample set) can be of benefit: for example, if we wish the voice to sound differently at certain velocities.
I would say: no, Genos2 has no changes in this regard.

Bogdan

[pjd]

I'm still assimilating and contemplating the seven velocity level (strike) CFX piano. I need to compare this observation against what little I know about Genos1 piano programming. At least on Montage/MODX, one can dive into the edit menus and discover the voice structure. All of this is hidden one the arrangers -- except the legacy voices in the YEM database. Even there, you need to crawl through UVF (XML) files to find the truth.

Good on everybody -- pj