Reduced Memory Size Genos 2

[Bill]

Re USB speeds 2 or 3.  In my opinion it is immaterial since the bottle neck is the Processor and operating system, not the small USB interface.

Bill

[StuartR]

hi John,
I believe Genos2 also has USB2, which is enough for current keyboards hardware. The thing is, USB2 already has faster transfer rate than keyboards can handle and so USB3 would bring nothing.

Bogdan

USB 2.0 came out in 2000 and 3.0 in 2008 so it's a reflection of functionality vs. modern hardware design. As always, the educated consumer is the final judge.

[StuartR]

Re USB speeds 2 or 3.  In my opinion it is immaterial since the bottle neck is the Processor and operating system, not the small USB interface.

Bill

Yamaha could have probably still used the second generation floppy drive as well if the CPU and OS are that slow, but they're getting hard to source.

[MIKEP]

I have been using a small usb extension, since Eileen' recommendation on this site several years ago.

[pjd]

As far as Genos1 is concerned, the USB interfaces are integrated into the host CPU chip, a Texas Instruments AM4376BZDN100 ARM processor. The host CPU chip implements two USB 2.0 interfaces.

The first on-chip USB interface goes to a Genesys Logic GL852G-MNG03 USB hub. The hub splits into three external USB TO DEVICE ports and a fourth port for the UD-WL01 wireless LAN module.

The second on-chip USB interface goes to the external USB TO HOST port.

I know this is TMI, but the only way Yamaha can upgrade to USB 3.x is to replace the host CPU with a much newer embedded ARM processor.

I'd love to see the service manual for Genos2 (and Montage M) -- pj

[bluali]

Behind the seen, this is what actuly being copied on USER memory . My Genos has a few style and song files on USER memory and I mostly use USB for my styles and recordings but you can see that only 53 GB is available. it means that near 10 GB has been used for default files and folders which shows me that 15GB memory for Genos 2 is kind of scary and we may notice this error of "not enough memory" on YEM similar to the one we get on PSR-970.

[attachment unavailable]

[soundphase]

As far as Genos1 is concerned, the USB interfaces are integrated into the host CPU chip, a Texas Instruments AM4376BZDN100 ARM processor. The host CPU chip implements two USB 2.0 interfaces.

The first on-chip USB interface goes to a Genesys Logic GL852G-MNG03 USB hub. The hub splits into three external USB TO DEVICE ports and a fourth port for the UD-WL01 wireless LAN module.

The second on-chip USB interface goes to the external USB TO HOST port.

I know this is TMI, but the only way Yamaha can upgrade to USB 3.x is to replace the host CPU with a much newer embedded ARM processor.

I'd love to see the service manual for Genos2 (and Montage M) -- pj

Good explanation for people who try to map PC computers and arrangers technical hardware evolution.

[kiplis]

As far as Genos1 is concerned, the USB interfaces are integrated into the host CPU chip, a Texas Instruments AM4376BZDN100 ARM processor. The host CPU chip implements two USB 2.0 interfaces.
I'd love to see the service manual for Genos2 (and Montage M) -- pj

So, most probably Yamaha have changed the CPU on Genos2 as it is now supporting LCD and HDMI simultaneously, which Genos1 (AM4376BZDN100) didn't?
This could be a good sign for the future.

[alvaromrocha]

So, most probably Yamaha have changed the CPU on Genos2 as it is now supporting LCD and HDMI simultaneously, which Genos1 (AM4376BZDN100) didn't?
This could be a good sign for the future.

Or it stuffed an HDMI adapter to the USB port inside, as it probably dud with the bluetooth module (there's an optional one for Genos 1, via USB).

[EileenL]

You can still store a lot on 15Gb. It is WAV files that take the space and these are easily stored to USB. I have 14.56Gb to use. Don't let us give people the wrong information and get them worried. I have Genos2 so can tell you what is what.

[kiplis]

You can still store a lot on 15Gb. It is WAV files that take the space and these are easily stored to USB. I have 14.56Gb to use. Don't let us give people the wrong information and get them worried. I have Genos2 so can tell you what is what.

So it seems more and more likely that the G2 was just a facelift, or shall we say a 5-degree display lift 
The processor is still the same 2013 model.

P.S This has nothing to do with the USB memory, except that the old processor does not support the USB 3
Protocol. But, as Bogdan stated, it does not matter anyway.

[soundphase]

You can still store a lot on 15Gb. It is WAV files that take the space and these are easily stored to USB. I have 14.56Gb to use. Don't let us give people the wrong information and get them worried. I have Genos2 so can tell you what is what.

Agree with Eileen.
The 3GB limit is far more annoying than the 15GB limit

[maartenb]

The processor is still the same 2013 model.

With all due respect, I think you are jumping to conclusions.

Show us the Service Manual, and then we'll know.


Maarten

[kiplis]

With all due respect, I think you are jumping to conclusions.
Show us the Service Manual, and then we'll know.
Maarten

Yes, exactly, as soon as I have one. Why doesn't Yamaha give us one?

[EileenL]

Do you own a Genos2. If not why should Yamaha give you a Manuel. A lot of us just want to enjoy our Genos2 and do not want to be blinded with science. I can tell you the sound is just incredible and the new drum kits are awesome. Pure enjoyment to play it. To me this is what is important not what it has in it. Proof of the pudding is in the eating.

[kiplis]

Do you own a Genos2. If not why should Yamaha give you a Manuel. A lot of us just want to enjoy our Genos2 and do not want to be blinded with science. I can tell you the sound is just incredible and the new drum kits are awesome. Pure enjoyment to play it. To me this is what is important not what it has in it. Proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Sorry, you are right. My apologies, won't bother you again.

[jimlaing]

As for USB 2 vs. USB 3 speeds - it does matter if (for example) you're transferring 10 WAV files to/from the keyboard, or moving lots of MP3 files in/out, etc.  Then USB speed matters.  For things like loading Registration files (Banks) or custom voice settings, etc., those are so small (files) that it probably doesn't matter as much.

I don't do it often, but when I do alot of recording then want to copy the WAV files (say 20 or 30 of them) over to a USB stick, it seems S-L-O-W compared to when I move similar files around on even an older computer (that supports USB 3.0 speeds or better).  Not a BIG deal, but in 2023 I'd somewhat have expected USB 3.0 speeds (esp. since USB itself has moved on to USB 3.1 and 3.2 (and variants) all with decently high transfer speeds possible.

[pjd]

Hi Eileen —

I understand your frustration. However, many customers are curious about the technology used in their cellphones, computers, and — arranger and synth keyboards.

When a new keyboard is released, I often see comments like "They are simply using the same technology from the last model" or worse, flat out false statements. The only way to counter misinformation is to quote fact from the Service Manual, which clearly identifies the internal components. [This is one reason why I publish such information on my site.]

Yamaha does not just hand out Service Manuals, by the way. Other than ancient keyboards, I've had to buy the manuals.

Folks, please don't get ahead of verified information. Thanks.

All the best — pj

[rattley]

Gosh!    Can you imagine what the naysayers would say if Genos 2 came with a floppy drive!!!    LOL

I remember a Korg i40m I had and loved.  This is around 1999 and that module still used floppy disks for everything.  Even then I thought it was outdated.  I just dumped a bunch of floppy disks. They weren't readable anymore.   -charley

[Christophermoment]

Folks, please don't get ahead of verified information. Thanks.

All the best — pj

Hope you can get hold of a service manual soon. Will be interesting to see what you can glean from it. Might give us some pointers as to some of the 'whys' and 'hows' . 

[BogdanH]

As for USB 2 vs. USB 3 speeds - it does matter if (for example) you're transferring 10 WAV files to/from the keyboard, or moving lots of MP3 files in/out, etc....

The system is as slow as is the slowest component in the chain. And on keyboards that's clearly not USB2. One can easy confirm that by measuring and comparing how long it takes to copy i.e. 200MB from USB stick to PC (on USB2 port) and how long it takes to copy same files onto keyboard. Obviously it takes much longer for keyboard, even we used USB2 port in both cases.
pjd will probably know more about the reasons why's that, but I assume it has to do with memory type (and related hardware) that's used on keyboards for that purpose.
Don't ask me why Yamaha doesn't use faster solution.. I'm only telling that the speed wouldn't increase by only changing USB type.

Just interesting side info: If we copy data from USB stick (on USB2 port) to PC, it goes relative fast. But have you ever updated BIOS on PC? It takes ages, even the same USB port is used... because different type of memory is used for BIOS.

Bogdan

[pjd]

Bogdan makes some good points.

Flash memory is kinda weird -- it can be read much faster than it can be written.

Generally, cheap flash memory is slow, especially the write speed. That's why I don't buy a USB jump drive if the manufacturer does not explicitly measure, state and guarantee the write speed. I don't care if it's USB 2.0 or USB 3.x -- if the write speed is not explicitly specified, I ain't gonna buy it.

Manufacturers like Kingston have cheap unrated drives and slightly more expansive rated drives. If someone really wants to get the best from USB 3.x, then I recommend a rated drive.

Practically, on arrangers, a person could live with a relatively slow drive. Doing audio -- especially recording to USB drive -- can push writing to or beyond the limits of the drive. Audio is the worst because it is like a continually streaming firehose of data and the operating system cannot wait for a slow drive to catch up.

Hope this explanation is helpful -- pj