It's Here!! Genos 2 disappointed?

[AndrewKeyz]

I wonder if the MIDI to Style application will interoperate with Genos1, 'specially since I will be keeping mine. 

Nope, the app will not be backwards compatible as the styles created with the midi to style program are a new format according to the manual:

This app can be used only with models which are compatible with SFF GE format (such as Genos2).

[Toril S]

Peter B! We need you to come and show us what Genos 2 can do, and shake us out of our depression!

[StuartR]

There's no FM-X engine....Thats MODX-Montage- Montage M... and far far from being able to edit them....

And no seamless sound switching that's been on Montage and MODX since the beginning!

[Thomas P]

Nope, the app will not be backwards compatible as the styles created with the midi to style program are a new format according to the manual:

Genos 1 is SFF GE compatible.

[AndrewKeyz]

And no seamless sound switching that's been on Montage and MODX since the beginning!

It definitely seems Yamaha doesn't want to tread on the toes of its other machines at times and possibly invalidate their specific advantages.
It's most likely also the reason why we don't see a Genos 2-88, as price wise and feature wise it then gets close to a CVP.

Sorry, but I expect more from a £5000 machine.
It needs a bit of everything that can be done now, not staying ring fenced in 2017.

[AndrewKeyz]

Genos 1 is SFF GE compatible.

I stand corrected if that is the case.
Apologies.

[Des O]

I stand corrected if that is the case.
Apologies.

Yes Genos 1 is compatible just checked the specs. So are the style files etc.

[Des O]

My guess is Yamaha are holding something back, testing the water with this being underwhelming. Next will be a major software update I think. 5k for not much extra.

[Duffy]

And no seamless sound switching that's been on Montage and MODX since the beginning!

No seamless sound and the lack of a really good Hammond & Leslie like YC boards, are a massive disappointment to me.
Lots of gimmicks but no real substance and I think that Yamaha has given up on top arrangers and are trying to give as little as possible for the money.
Money will be better spent on a good new module to midi up to Genos 1 and get loads of completely new sounds and styles or a Hammond type module with real drawbars.
Could buy both and the cost will still be a fraction of the Genos 2 price.     Never have so many, waited so long, for so little.

[soundphase]

The new reverb can change a lot of things

[Des O]

The new reverb can change a lot of things

I'm not sure it will, the G1 has decent reverb & effects also there is software out their better. For live it won't be noticed, for recording then a daw could do the same. A gimmick imo.

[soundphase]

We will see. Euh hear...

[StuartR]

No seamless sound and the lack of a really good Hammond & Leslie like YC boards, are a massive disappointment to me.
Lots of gimmicks but no real substance and I think that Yamaha has given up on top arrangers and are trying to give as little as possible for the money.
Money will be better spent on a good new module to midi up to Genos 1 and get loads of completely new sounds and styles or a Hammond type module with real drawbars.
Could buy both and the cost will still be a fraction of the Genos 2 price.     Never have so many, waited so long, for so little.

And apparently less onboard memory?? This can't be correct.

[Yama]

I am disappointed, not because something is wrong with the G2, but because I had raised my expectations too high! I thought an 88 key version may be in the pipeline (given Pa5X offers that), was hoping better onboard style creator/editor etc...

I am just a music enthusiast and mainly play at home, so my preference is to have both good piano action/sound/feel as well as music arranging/creation capabilities. So either of the following will meet my needs:

- CVP 909
- PA5x    (noisy 88 keybed)
- Genos 2 + P-525
- P-S500  (limited arranger capability)
- P-525 + (DAW+Mac) (probably most efficient and economical)

Yama

[AndrewKeyz]

I am disappointed, not because something is wrong with the G2, but because I had raised my expectations too high! I thought an 88 key version may be in the pipeline (given Pa5X offers that), was hoping better onboard style creator/editor etc...

I am just a music enthusiast and mainly play at home, so my preference is to have both good piano action/sound/feel as well as music arranging/creation capabilities. So either of the following will meet my needs:

- CVP 909
- PA5x    (noisy 88 keybed)
- Genos 2 + P-525
- P-S500  (limited arranger capability)
- P-525 + (DAW+Mac) (probably most efficient and economical)

Yama

-You'd definitely would want to audition a CVP 909 in a shop it is so expensive and to see if suits.
-The PA5X non 88 key weighted keybeds are fine, seem very tight. Also consider the position of the pitch bend / wheel. A 61 key PA5X + 88 other brand (P525 or a Kawai) weighted underneath may be better and more reliable.
-Genos2 + P525, expensive but top of the line. Definitely compare to CVP909 in that case what you think will work best.
-Consider the DGX670
- P-525 + (DAW+Mac). If you don't need arranger functionality and like to create all track parts yourself (or perhaps use Midi as basis which is easily done) this is definitely the best solution which sonically will give unlimited results (but is more work for sure). Native Instruments have their cyber deals on right now if you are interested in VST instruments.

I have the CP88 and it's probably better suited for performance compared to P525.
P525 has newer keybed. Headphone port at the front (instead of awkwardly at the back like CP88). On/off button on top (instead of awkwardly at the back like CP88).
CP88 has some awesome extra pianos but lacks binaural audio on the CFX.
But if you have a Mac attached with the P525, you can get incredible VST pianos out there anyway.
Note that if you play with headphones you will probably be quite happy with the incredible binaural sound that is on the P525 with the CFX. Has to be heard as it is undiscribable. First time I heard it I thought the headphones were off and the piano was playing throughout the showroom. Very encapsulating experience.

[Michael Trigoboff]

Not disappointed. Just ordered mine today, from the great folks at Sweetwater.

Should have it this weekend.

[rattley]

Hello

Arranger Workstation.  Yamaha used that term a few times in their demo. I was poo pooed calling Tyros or Genos a workstation in the past. It is an arranger I was told. Call it whatever............just an observation.  -charley

[Lee Batchelor]

https://youtu.be/f8k3Wu7iujc

other video from Yamaha on the site.

Internal memory: 15GB

Thanks for the link. I clicked the other one and was told the video was private. I couldn't believe Yamaha would black out its North American customers!

[AndrewKeyz]

No seamless sound and the lack of a really good Hammond & Leslie like YC boards, are a massive disappointment to me.
Lots of gimmicks but no real substance and I think that Yamaha has given up on top arrangers and are trying to give as little as possible for the money.
Money will be better spent on a good new module to midi up to Genos 1 and get loads of completely new sounds and styles or a Hammond type module with real drawbars.
Could buy both and the cost will still be a fraction of the Genos 2 price.     Never have so many, waited so long, for so little.

Why didn't they just add all the functionality /presets of the cheap reface boards in the Genos 2?
You would have had DX, CP, YC and CS with the new reverb and existing Genos effects.
Would have been way more impressive. Combine all 4 with new styles etc.

Why did they single out the 80s thing specifically? I reckon YC is more timeless and more useful for the vast majority of arranger players.

[Lee Batchelor]

My guess is Yamaha are holding something back, testing the water with this being underwhelming. Next will be a major software update I think. 5k for not much extra.

Perhaps but you only get one chance to make a first impression. From what I heard, G2 has the same old sounds and cheesy rhythms. Don't get me wrong - the rhythms on the Tyros and Genos are very good, but for $5,000 plus my G1 trade in, the G2 is not even close to being worth it. The rhythms are the same old repeating 4 bar phrases - no round robin creativity - boring! Peter Baartmans may play better than everyone here but even he can't create our wish list of upgrades when the raw materials are simply not there.

If Yamaha is planning an OS update that will provide the stellar improvements to the pianos, organs, styles, and e.pianos, then they should have just provided them up front and impressed the daylights out of us all. Instead, Yamaha just embarrassed themselves.

[Dutchman]

I bought my Genos1 two years ago and am loving it every day, coming from a psr3000 that's not so hard to imagine I guess.
What I saw during the Genos2 presentation was nice, it's a nice instrument, but I didn't see enough reason to convince me to exchange my Genos1 and pay an extra grand or so.
Personally I like the more tilted displays but I really dislike the slider and knob leds, looks toyish to me, but that's just my opinion.
Honestly I expected a bit more, don't ask me what though but for a new generation Genos I found it a bit underwhelming, specifically if you already own the Genos1.

Maybe more demos etc. will give a more in depth view on the changes compared to the Genos1 but right now I'll just hold on to what I got.

[Lee Batchelor]

The new reverb can change a lot of things

No it can't. The original sound must be stellar, otherwise you're just spray painting rusty metal.

[richkeys]

For me the re-worked CFX piano is interesting. They say they doubled the sample lengths and doubled the layers for a richer sound. That alone would get me to consider upgrading from an SX900, but I will wait and see if new users think it is much improved.

[hoangbr2014]

Very disappointing.
Unless I am wowed in 15 minutes by something that this embargo breaking dude didn't show...

I'll probably save some money and be getting a P525 only then and mostly concentrate on my piano playing and use the CP88 with my Genos 1 for the odd performance which I think will be a bigger upgrade performance wise than just a Genos 2 on its own.

I've literally recorded songs with several of these demo-ed styles (Purple Rain / Final Countdown) which I bet are some of the best on board again that suit my music (like on the Genos 1). To my ears these styles don't sound better here, just slightly different drum fills. Same O/S. Mostly same sounds. I still have many extra sounds I never explored with the free YEM packages.
I can improve my own recordings by using external sounds or doing different things with the Genos 1. There is nothing new that inspires me to go with a Genos 2. I could consider some cheap Native Instrument stuff to add in the mix.

I hardly use the faders or the knobs once I have my registrations sorted, what is the point having lights on them? The screen I can improve by buying a small external display with an HDMI-VGA adapter.
It's just not worth upgrading by the looks of it.

For a couple of hundred pounds I can add so much other things in the mix that would be a bigger upgrade I think.

If working for studio, why don't use Montage, I can't Genos work for studio

[Tommy 73]

Genos2 looks to be a very nice keyboard...

Did Genos2 make me want to jump out the back of a Hercules airplane to get to it like the new Montage M8x did? No, not really...

My thoughts...... As a Korg PA5X owner, i think Korg can breathe a little now, but no resting on one's laurels as their is much work to be done (or has almost been done as December approaches) as a window of opportunity is clearly still open for Korg when I consider Genos2...

I hope Korg don't waste it.

Will I still try Genos2......of course I will, but, I don't need to jump out the back of a Hercules to do so now. 
_________________

[Henni]

Peter B! We need you to come and show us what Genos 2 can do, and shake us out of our depression!

a Good arranger does not need a "Peter" to make it sound good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqrdpsMxGQ0&t=1045s

[SynthHog]

And no seamless sound switching that's been on Montage and MODX since the beginning!

Yes the lack of SSS is a strange one but to be Honest i was out soon as i saw it was another cheap plastic boat. 100% for the Price these plastic fantastic cases are a real issue for me but i'm defo in a minority with that opinion....But its made my next purchase much easier now....I'm very happy with my PA5X-76 albeit still got a few bugs but they will be fixed but i'm 100% ordering a Montage-7m in the new year....

[AndrewKeyz]

   If working for studio, why don't use Montage, I can't Genos work for studio

It does look very good and it sounds good too. Thanks

A couple of minutes into the Bonners demo of the Montage M I'm seeing less cheesy salesman as in their Genos 2 demo with the other Yamaha gentleman and more "Wow, look at what this sounds like". Two guys laughing and having a good time. The salesman rather having Tony play etc. That's what it should be like.

I don't know why a salesguy would say "We don't need a screen that can move, can you see it from your angle? I can see it. So we are good."  That really doesn't seem right.
And this is coming from someone who actually didn't care about the screen moving on the Genos. When a company guy starts saying that in such a manner, I will tend to side with the critics who want it to move.

[Oldden]

I must admit a tilting screen would be nice. If you don't want to tilt it, just don't. At home I have Alexis working some things, just say, Alexis, play the name of any song and it does. Now imagine a keyboard that you just say , Genos load xxxxx and it does, that would be something.

[Yama]

-You'd definitely would want to audition a CVP 909 in a shop it is so expensive and to see if suits.
-The PA5X non 88 key weighted keybeds are fine, seem very tight. Also consider the position of the pitch bend / wheel. A 61 key PA5X + 88 other brand (P525 or a Kawai) weighted underneath may be better and more reliable.
-Genos2 + P525, expensive but top of the line. Definitely compare to CVP909 in that case what you think will work best.
-Consider the DGX670
- P-525 + (DAW+Mac). If you don't need arranger functionality and like to create all track parts yourself (or perhaps use Midi as basis which is easily done) this is definitely the best solution which sonically will give unlimited results (but is more work for sure). Native Instruments have their cyber deals on right now if you are interested in VST instruments.

Thank you Andrew for the coherent suggestions regarding. As a non gigging home enthusiast, either of (Genos 2 + P525) or (P525 + DAW+Mac) seem appealing to me.

However, as another member suggested to you, what do you (or any other members) think of using Montage M8x + DAW for both piano practice and music making?