It's time to have more than 4 style variations

[pedro_pedroc]

Yes, Bogdan.

You're right. Take a song at my channel, choose one I had created the style, listen to it ... Most people don't believe I'm playing live - they think everything is pre recorded... Because what you said, the song/style is very complex and so many sounds, and you have only 10 fingers, they believe you're not able playing live with (that!) complexity.

Nice point!

Pedro

Perfectly described, Mike!

Yes, I see arranger as a small band and I believe, as long I use it sounding "small band-ish", my playing remains believable (in sense "yeah, that's what one person actually can play"). Because as soon music becomes too complex/busy, it might raise the question if it's a playback or not -especially to those who don't know about arrangers.

Bogdan

[BogdanH]

hi Pedro,
That's exactly what I was saying and I'm glad you agree. For majority of people it's almost like the better we are on arranger, the bigger the chance that they will think we're cheating.
Ok, because I only play for myself, I shouldn't really care what other think. But out of fun I do publish some video now and then... and for whatever reason (mainly to inspire others), I do wish my playing to be seen authentic. Luckily, my songs are quite simple and so I don't need to worry much about that 

And coming back to topic... as far I can see, then number of variations didn't increase on new Genos 2.. ok, maybe next time 

Bogdan

[rikkisbears]

Hi Bogdan, rather late to join in on this conversation, but, it's an interesting subject.
There are 16 pad buttons  on the matrix, as far as I'm aware, you can still only use 4 at a time. I hardly ever use pads. Hoping they will come up with something far more interesting than just being able to trigger a pad.
Tend to agree more variations would be good. Still tend to think the 3 intro's are handy. Korg has count in, an intro for playing your own chord progression, and the fancy one , that sounds great, but sometimes makes it impossible to use , because it's  too song specific .
With the 2 style players, one could have 8 variations, but would be a case of having to create your own user style for  the other 4.
Haven't spent much time on style editing on PA5x, but my earlier korgs , an intro or fill or even an ending could have been turned into a variation, can't remember quite what it was , but a fill could be up to something like 32 bars long ,  if not longer.
So there were options.

But certainly would be great if they added extra variations on there next lot of keyboards😁

[soundphase]

If there is no world war or economical disaster before, AI will be added in such arranger before 10 years. And you will naturally get the additional diversity you look for.

There are enough digitized samples around the world for any style to feed machine learning engines.
I'm quite sure Yamaha teams are currently working with these generative AI tools.

[mikf]

There's a fundamental question with all of this. Taken to its extreme, you could just have the arranger play great music while you just batter any old keys - like the guitar hero game. But is that the point of a musical instrument? In fact is that the point of any pastime? How long before we all got bored with guitar hero?
Mike

[Bill]

To be honest I have not read all of the responses to this thread. However you have an INFINITE number of variation already.
Simply turn off or adjust the volume of the any of the style parts and you have a vast selection of quite interesting variations.

Bill

[BogdanH]

@Bill

That's not 10 variations, it's still only 4 variations! Changing only voice parameters in some variation doesn't make a new variation. Basically, it's just a copy of the same variation sounding a bit differently.
...

-that is, no matter what parameters we change in channels, the variation still plays the same notes in active channels.

Bogdan

[soundphase]

There's a fundamental question with all of this. Taken to its extreme, you could just have the arranger play great music while you just batter any old keys - like the guitar hero game. But is that the point of a musical instrument? In fact is that the point of any pastime? How long before we all got bored with guitar hero?
Mike

I really don't think AI will replace your creation and your sensibility. It will adjust to them far more dynamically than the current variations+registrations+buttons/pedals manual combination you choose. More close to what already exists with SA and SA2 articulations.

It will just help you to replace the other members of a band and let you continue to be the leader of this band.

For example it could automatically change the variation, add or remove parts of a style simply by « listening » to the way you play dynamically.

[Gleston]

Fantastic Topic !!!

Many ideias !

Many opinions !

Many Sugestions for improvements !

And I can see that when we have limitations in the hardware , our imagination can make us create ways to achieve a result.

This Arrangers are doing much more than play a a style for us !

Congratulations HBogdan !!

That what forum´s are for!!

[KurtAgain]

For example [AI] could automatically change the variation, add or remove parts of a style simply by « listening » to the way you play dynamically.

Yamaha had a function like this once before in the early 90s. They called it INTERACTIVE ACCOMPANIMENT, funnily enough abbreviated to IA. My PSR-5700 had this function. Maybe Yamaha was a bit ahead of its time back then. Anyway, the most important thing about this function for me was that you could turn it off. I think Gary Diamond (travlin-easy) will also remember IA.

Kurt

[soundphase]

Yamaha had a function like this once before in the early 90s. They called it INTERACTIVE ACCOMPANIMENT, funnily enough abbreviated to IA. My PSR-5700 had this function. Maybe Yamaha was a bit ahead of its time back then. Anyway, the most important thing about this function for me was that you could turn it off. I think Gary Diamond (travlin-easy) will also remember IA.

Kurt

Believe me Generative AI will be far more efficient....

[KurtAgain]

Believe me Generative AI will be far more efficient....

That's what I'm assuming too. AI will be efficient. But it could be that the better and more efficient the AI ​​becomes, the more I will be bored as a musician. Because the result could feel more and more like it is not mine. That is how I feel at the moment with ChatGPT, for example. But let's wait and see.

Kurt

[rattley]

Hello friends!

I have only recently discovered the StyMuteA and StyMuteB knob assign buttons. They provide  a smooth way to add and remove style elements. Once you get the feel of how the 2 buttons behave together it's easy to thin out a style or turn it up!!  I like this better than leaving the mixer window open all the time. -charley

[soundphase]

That's what I'm assuming too. AI will be efficient. But it could be that the better and more efficient the AI ​​becomes, the more I will be bored as a musician. Because the result could feel more and more like it is not mine. That is how I feel at the moment with ChatGPT, for example. But let's wait and see.

Kurt

I understand, but arrangers are not pianos nor full orchestra.
With 10 fingers and 2 feet, it's difficult to play like a full orchestra. We have to accept help if we want our results to be compared to the result of a full orchestra.

As long as I think I "drive" all the core changes with my fingers or my feet, I'm satisfied.
I never used the chord looper yet as I don't drive the chord changes (and I think chord looper is a good feature to free the left hand).

And I think with AI, we will continue to drive the changes. The engine will be able to better adapt the accompaniement to the way we play by having access to hundreds of predefined models previously computed from analysis of millions of music samples. And these models will be dynamically combined to generate something new.

Ok, perhaps you can consider it will remove the pure creativity.
In the other hand, scores from very unusual styles are not popular (until the style itself becomes popular).

Look at all the debates between olders and youngers concerning electronic styles on this forum.

[rikkisbears]

Hi, think there's going to be some interesting times ahead with AI.  Came across a site called Suno AI https://suno.com/ , had a ball creating some instrumental music, mainly piano, I was looking for ideas on some new age piano solo's. Simple as putting in the type of style and feel one wants . 30 seconds later you have a tune. Then I put it through an app called Piano 2 Notes and I had a score.
It can also write songs and sing them back.
I couldn't sing if my life depended on it, and I haven't gotten round to trying it yet, but there's apps that seperate the vocals and split up the music into bass , drums  guitar etc, thinking it could be fun having an mp3 vocal track to play keyboard or piano along too.
This is early days, mind boggles at what could lie ahead😀