Genos 2 might also come with 88 keys? Implications?

[maartenb]

One user on this forum has stated several times that Genos 2 will also come in a 88 keys version. (If I remember correctly, that user is Tommy73, but I couldn't find his posts about this.) I've always discarded that prediction as I couldn't see the benefit of an 88 key arranger.

However, this morning I came across a post from Saul on another forum. Saul has access to some Yamaha insider knowledge.

Genos is 76 keys [..] And there is every reason to believe it may be offered in 88-key format too

Source


Now, let's say Genos 2 will also come in a 88 key version. What are the implications of that?

Does this mean Yamaha aim for more professional use of the Genos 2? This is a direction they already started with the marketing of Genos, but I'm unsure whether that has worked out or not.

Would be cool.


Maarten

[colas musique]

Good morning,

The information is now public in Europe since indicated by a supplier: Yahama will make an announcement concerning the Genos II theoretically on November 16, 2023 and deliveries will begin from this date.

According to additional information I have obtained, the "Genos II" is an incredible instrument and Yamaha has done an excellent job.
The delivered version will have 76 keys. The 88 or 61 key version is not mentioned at least immediately.

Concerning me, the pre-order has already been made many months ago and therefore I am only waiting for this date with the greatest impatience.

Good day
Christian

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Jeff,
People should also realise with an 88 key  keyboard you can have more splits  and in one registration and seamless playing so to speak.
Sadly my desk area can only accomodate a 76key Keyboard which is still great to make splits.
People do not mention making splits for different sounds much , but that does save registration changes.
Hope Christian has had rumours of seamless switching. that would be great.
The biggest thing would be a great program for making styles easily even if we had to pay for it.

The other moan i have about the present Genos is all the partial notes left over when making a recording.
You have to go to functions on Cubase  and clean every track up because each displaced note partial has to be deleted, lengthened and gaps made up. To the ears you hear little glitches in the style or little quirky jumps in the sound if you do not clean the tracks.
The ultimate moan for me is Print wearing off the buttons. Cheap screen printing on a costly keyboard
Rant Over!!!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

This was realeased in the last 24 hours but it probably is fake
The idea does seem consistant.
Oh well, it does warm your thoughts up a little

Edit: Link removed by Roger Brenizer

[BogdanH]

This was realeased in the last 24 hours but it probably is fake ...

Of course it's fake... geez, how don't they get tired of doing this 

Bogdan

Edit: Link removed by Roger Brenizer

[Oldden]

One thing I miss since organs are no longer the thing are having two manuals which used to overlap by an octave. Upper one for the melody lower one for the chords. Probably still get them but the size and the weight of an organ, oh, dear.

[musicman100]

Concerning me, the pre-order has already been made many months ago and therefore I am only waiting for this date with the greatest impatience.

Good day
Christian

So is that correct you have already pre-order the Genos 2?

If so what is the price?

And did you get any information before ordering it?

Thanks

[maartenb]

The other moan i have about the present Genos is all the partial notes left over when making a recording.

Hi John,

I assume you are talking about glitches in the style tracks and not right hand tracks?

Another way to fix this:

• Record your chord notes on a track in Cubase. These are the literal notes you play with you left hand, not the style.
• Quantize the chord notes in Cubase. Now every chord is perfectly aligned to a quarter or eighth note
• Play back the chord notes track, and let the Genos interpret the notes as chord notes driving the style. Record the style tracks.

Since the chords are now played in perfect alignment with the beat, you won't get the partials.

While glitches in a style sound bad, Yamaha does a great job in avoiding and/or solving them. I had a Roland G-70 and the glitches were so bad in certain styles (especially ballads), that I just couldn't use those styles. I solved it by buying a Tyros 4.


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Ok , Why was the link removed
Is it to do with copyrights or something?
Or is there some truth in it?? or a wokey thing?

[musicman100]

What links were those?

If you cant post them on here could you PM me. Would love to see them. thanks

[colas musique]

Good morning Musicman 100,

Affirmative, I pre-ordered it after selling my Genos (that's why I no longer have it) and I'm not the only one who did so. Some have even done the same since January of this year.

Regarding the price, it exceeds US$5,300 or £4,350 with the sound system.

Good day
Christian

[Oldden]

Would anybody order a keyboard which might or might not exist, nobody has seen, no idea of the price, not knowing if it's any good and no delivery date. Well I won't.

[maartenb]

I would and I did. 


Maarten

[Oldden]

You are braver than me, look at Korg KA5X, took a while to get it sorted.

[soundphase]

Yamaha has never disappointed me (I know Yamaha since I was 8. I'm now 53).

I told my regular dealer to reserve a Genos2 for me and to call me as soon as he receives it, without unpacking it.
I indicated that I can preorder it if he already knows the price.

He didn't ask me anything.

4350 pounds => 5000€ more than 1000€ more than Genos 1 in 2017. => I continue to think people who wants to buy second hand Genos, should do it now.

[maartenb]

Oldden,

Yamaha's track record is very good. Sure, some bugs here and there, and they always get squashed with firmware updates. Not really a risk. You can't compare them to Korg!

I also bought the Genos shortly after launch date and I didn't regret it.


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Maarten


Hi Maarten
They said if i am not wrong way back that Yamaha may have a hand in with Korg.
I am wondering after comment made by Oldden if the PAX5 was a test for the latest Yamaha keyboard.
If so these companies can make lots of profit.
We see possible pictures of the new Genos 2 and it looks the same virtually in appearance.
If these companies are in touch with each other, it could mean double profit for tham as people will be switching over to the new Genos again.
This is only a theory.
The new Genos should now be rock solid, testing it out on unsuspecting Korg PAX5 beta test owners lol!!

[maartenb]

We see possible pictures of the new Genos 2 and it looks the same virtually in appearance.

Because they are all fake so far. 


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Magic Mushrooms anyone!!!!

[mikf]

The Yamaha takeover of Korg ended a long time ago. The break up was not all that friendly from what I can make out, and all cooperation is off the table long ago. They are fierce competitors.
Mike

[pjd]

The Yamaha takeover of Korg ended a long time ago. The break up was not all that friendly from what I can make out, and all cooperation is off the table long ago. They are fierce competitors.
Mike

Jerry K posted this on the Musicplayer Keyboard Corner today: "Yamaha invested in KORG (at their request), gaining a majority stake in the board, but not a complete sale or ownership." Korg eventually bought out Yamaha yielding the situation today as described by Mike.

To set some context, all of this happened during Japan's "Lost Decades" when the Japanese banks pretty much collapsed. It had a very detrimental effect on the Japanese economy and, of course, its businesses.

The impression that Korg is a Yamaha captive (or whatever) really needs to go away. 

All the best -- pj

[pjd]

However, this morning I came across a post from Saul on another forum. Saul has access to some Yamaha insider knowledge.Source

Now, let's say Genos 2 will also come in a 88 key version. What are the implications of that?

Maarten

Hi Maarten --

One needs to take the rest of the Yamaha DMI product lines into consideration. The CVP series are repackaged arrangers. Yep, a few gizmos/features are missing (e.g., multi-pads). CVPs are essentially 88 key arrangers.

The CSP series also repackage a lot of arranger (and auto-accompaniment) features and technology. The CSPs require the SmartPianist app to fully access the features and sounds on offer.

The so-called portable digital piano line includes the P-S500 which is a "portable" CSP. It also has auto-accompaniment and relies heavily on Smart Pianist.

So, where does Yamaha position an 88 key Genos in the DMI jumble? Does Yamaha put a light, entry-level GHS keybed in it or does it provide a heavy quality keybed like the NWX or GrandTouch? I'm not so sure one can make a business case for an 88 key Genos given the other offerings, especially one that doesn't break a person's back. 

I'd like to hear Mark's thoughts because he has played (and sold) more Yamaha instruments than any of us. 

All the best -- pj

[mikf]

Although never a complete takeover, the Yamaha stake in Korg in the late eighties was controlling ie greater than 50% making Korg effectively a subsidiary of Yamaha. Korg a few years later, made enough money to buy out the controlling interest, so clearly they didn't want it to continue.
It is entirely possible that a small residual Yamaha shareholding in Korg still exists - I don't know. But it's irrelevant, owning some shares in a company does not lead to influence or cooperation. Certainly not the kind of cooperation John is suggesting, which would never happen. That takes controlling interest or an alliance agreement, which typically have to be declared by public companies.
Also, for obvious reasons, members of this forum overestimate the importance of arrangers to both these companies. Even during the time when Korg were effectively a subsidiary of Yamaha, it was never driven by arranger technology, but by development and sharing of much more fundamental sound technology, mostly aimed at synths. Synthesizers and associated products sell in vast numbers. To put this in perspective the DX7 alone sold over 200,000 units. At todays value, that is over $1Bn in sales. One Korg synth sold more than 250,000 units, although at much lower cost than the DX7. In fact musical instrument companies were often wary wary of reputations being tainted in that synth market by involvement with auto accompaniment keyboards.
You can read the 3 part history of Korg here which gives a lot of insight into what really drives these companies.
https://www.soundonsound.com/music-business/history-korg-part-2
Mike

[Stubby]

...
Now, let's say Genos 2 will also come in a 88 key version. What are the implications of that?

Does this mean Yamaha aim for more professional use of the Genos 2? This is a direction they already started with the marketing of Genos, but I'm unsure whether that has worked out or not.
...
Maarten

I have no idea whether an 88 key version would be introduced, but it would be great for the non-professional folks like me that don't ever move their Genos out of the house.  I miss those lower notes the most and recently purchased an 88 note Kurzweil to re-live the fun I was missing.  I still have and play my original Genos, tho, and will buy another no matter how many keys -- assuming it will be greater than 13!

[AllanM]

Hi John,

I assume you are talking about glitches in the style tracks and not right hand tracks?

Another way to fix this:

• Record your chord notes on a track in Cubase. These are the literal notes you play with you left hand, not the style.
• Quantize the chord notes in Cubase. Now every chord is perfectly aligned to a quarter or eighth note
• Play back the chord notes track, and let the Genos interpret the notes as chord notes driving the style. Record the style tracks.

Since the chords are now played in perfect alignment with the beat, you won't get the partials.

While glitches in a style sound bad, Yamaha does a great job in avoiding and/or solving them. I had a Roland G-70 and the glitches were so bad in certain styles (especially ballads), that I just couldn't use those styles. I solved it by buying a Tyros 4.


Maarten

Maarten, does this mean you are using a midi track in Cubase (or any other DAW) to trigger the style?
Do you have any further advice how to set this up please?
I use Reaper and a SX900.

Cheers, Allan

[maartenb]

Maarten, does this mean you are using a midi track in Cubase (or any other DAW) to trigger the style?

Exactly!

Create a track in REAPER with the played chord notes. You could even draw the notes in a track with a mouse, since you only need three to five notes per chord.

Next, go into the MIDI menu of your arranger. Select one MIDI channel to NOT play the notes, but to treat them as triggers for the style engine. I don't have a Genos at hand, so I can't tell you exactly how to do it, but it must be in the Owner's Manual.

Last, make REAPER the master (sending out MIDI clock) and the PSR-SX900 the slave (receiving and following the MIDI clock). You now control the tempo of your style with REAPER. Press Play in the DAW and the keyboard will start as well.


Maarten

[DerekA]

The detail is in the MIDI settings section of the reference manual. Spoiler : the MIDI settings menu has a tab for Chord Detection, select the MIDI channel that corresponds to the channel that the DAW is sending the chord notes on.

[nonchai]

I think if GENOS was actually useful for song/music production as well as one man band stuff - then an 88 key beast that just stayed at home or lived in a studio would make a lot of sense..

bt Yamaha seem to be stubbornly or stupidly resisting the idea of making Genos a proper creative tool as well as the ultimate OMB..

[rattley]

Hello,

Buying any item site unseen has become the norm with a lot of purchases these days.  As long as your dealer offers a guarantee and you trust them it has become the way.  I will buy a shiny new Genos 2 as soon as my dealer has them available...........site unseen!  Just like I purchased the Genos 1, and all my Tyros's.  I even bought my last new car this way, and even homes are purchased this way.   If you want to be one of the new Genos 2 owners like me you will stand by Yamaha's commitment and history just as I have done in the past. I have never been disappointed with any Yamaha release.  -charley

[maartenb]

On Instagram the channel YamahaKeyboardsOfficial has the Genos 2 teaser as well. The text accompanying the teaser is interesting:

"Be ready to unbox the future... something big is coming on November 15th. [smiley with hearts as eyes]"   (emphasis added by me)

I think the word "big" is referring to an 88-key version...


Maarten