Converting Yamaha styles to Korg styles

[brucerez]

Hi,

I have some styles in my Yamaha (PSR-A5000) that I would like to use on my Korg (Pa4X).
What software can I use for conversion from Yamaha to Korg?

Any suggestion would be welcome.

Thank you

[Amwilburn]

Well, when converting from Korg to Yamaha, I just record the style portions as a midifile and then run it through Josoft (Jørgen Sørensen) Midi2Style (it's a lot of work, yes).

So likewise you could record a midi using Yamaha's styles, and then use the built in midi to style converter on the PA4x. *HOWEVER* most of the styles on the PA5000 use non-standard Middle Eastern Revo drums, so you would also need to create a map from source kit to PA4x kit; and that's even more complicated due to the nature of the PA5000 kits; you'll need similar sounding kits installed on the PA4x, as they no longer include oriental in the box,unless you purhcased the PA4x OR version.

Unless you're using standard kits, then they'll convert just fine!

Mark

[Jørgen]

Hi
Midi2Style software is at
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/midi2style/index.htm
Regards
Jørgen

[brucerez]

Hi
Midi2Style software is at
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/midi2style/index.htm
Regards
Jørgen

Thanks Jørgen for the link.
Is this (Midi2Style) enough for converting Yamaha styles to Korg styles or do I need more software? Since some of my Yamaha styles have audio Drum/Percussion loops.

I am asking this because I used StyleMagic YA and other software for converting successfully Korg styles (with DR/Percussion loops) to Yamaha styles.
So it seems to me I saw a version of StyleMagic for Korg Pa arranger on that webpage, but I don't remember the name.

Is there any version of StyleMagic for Korg Pa arranger?

Thank you

[Amwilburn]

re-read my post: from korg to yamaha, you use midi2tyle; for yamaha to korg you use the *built in* style from midi function. It's built into the keyboard.

I don't have style magic (Would love someone to convert PA4x /PA1000 /PA5x styles to Yamaha though!) but from what I understood it works for all major brands?

[rikkisbears]

Hi, I'm currently trying to do a few of my sx900 across to my PA5x.
There's a few issues.
XG drumkits used to work quite well with old psr styles, not so good with some of the sx900 kits.
Some of the drums in the lower range ie from just say, note 13 to note 26 ( can't quite remember where they start to differ) don't match the xg kits., so now having to create new drumkits for PA5x. I've decided to sample mine using the basic version of sample robot, rather than try and find a similar sample in the PA5x.
So drums taken care of ( hopefully 🙄)
Other problem, styles with guitar tracks. Some of the really old styles I used to just be able to load the styles directly into xg works. Then do my editing to turn into a Korg style. They used to be just recorded as a cmaj7th chord I think.
Then something changed. Guitar tracks ended up being recorded differently. Just changing style to.mid  or loading directly into xgworks no longer worked. ( haven't tried mid to style for this)
I've ended up having  record the style parts in my sx900 and saving as midi files.
For main midi , I record intro1, the 4 fills and variations and end1 as cmaj7th chord , all as a single midi file.
Load into xg works. Add the required Korg markers. Swap midi channel 9 and 11 around.  ( bass and percussion are on opposite channels)
Remove any mega voices.
Save and import into PA5x. Then I have to do required editing in PA5x.
Then I record intro/ ending 2 and 3 in major and minor chords etc etc.

Lot of work. Only plan to do a few that I desperately need.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Rikki :

Is it possible to convert PA5X styles to Yamaha styles ?
PA4X styles could not be converted to Yamaha styles, am I right ?

Plse advise. Many thanks, JH

[Amwilburn]

*snip*
Then something changed. Guitar tracks ended up being recorded differently. Just changing style to.mid  or loading directly into xgworks no longer worked. ( haven't tried mid to style for this)
I've ended up having  record the style parts in my sx900 and saving as midi files.
For main midi , I record intro1, the 4 fills and variations and end1 as cmaj7th chord , all as a single midi file.
Load into xg works. Add the required Korg markers. Swap midi channel 9 and 11 around.  ( bass and percussion are on opposite channels)
Remove any mega voices.
Save and import into PA5x. Then I have to do required editing in PA5x.
Then I record intro/ ending 2 and 3 in major and minor chords etc etc.

Lot of work. Only plan to do a few that I desperately need.

Oh, right; they used to be all CMaj7 based, but with sff2 (style format 2) the guitars use 'guitar casm'; basically it means instead of a chord it's set to open guitar strings and then moved from there. You're right, that might be tricky to convert, but I think you could convert them to sff1 and bypass some of the issue, but I think that might screw up any megavoice sound effects on any megavoice guitar style tracks

But you could then go in and just delete all the megavoice notes. Which is again, more work.

I've converted *one* Korg style into Yamaha, and it took me over a month until it was usable, (still not perfect)

Mark

[brucerez]

re-read my post: from korg to yamaha, you use midi2tyle; for yamaha to korg you use the *built in* style from midi function. It's built into the keyboard.

I don't have style magic (Would love someone to convert PA4x /PA1000 /PA5x styles to Yamaha though!) but from what I understood it works for all major brands?

Thanks for the reply.
I've already read your post but I've never used the built-in style from midi function in Pa4X.

As I mentioned, I've converted some of my Korg user styles (not factory ones) to Yamaha successfully.
It's not straightforward and it takes lot of time and experiences specially when the audio loop Drum and Percussion are involved.

What is good with Korg Pa arrangers is that we can Export/Import styles as midi file format.
My question: how can we export a style as a midi in PSR-A5000? I can take care of the rest.
I couldn't find any Import/Export option.

Thank you

[brucerez]

...
PA4X styles could not be converted to Yamaha styles, am I right ?

Plse advise. Many thanks, JH

Hi Jeff,
Yes you can convert Pa4X styles to Yamaha.
First you need to Export your style as a midi from Pa4X.
Then you need to open it (midi) on StyleMagic YA and convert it to Yamaha SFF1 or SFF2 (your choice).

Hope that helps.

[Jeff Hollande]

Yes you can convert Pa4X styles to Yamaha.
First you need to Export your style as a midi from Pa4X.
Then you need to open it (midi) on StyleMagic YA and convert it to Yamaha SFF1 or SFF2 (your choice).

Thank you very much for your reply, brucerez.

I do not own a Korg high end arranger nor StyleMagic. Only a Yamaha Tyros4. 
I may hope these PA4X ( and/or PA5X ? ) Yamaha styles conversion are available ?

I am convinced you'd make a lot of members very happy if these Yamaha conversions could be uploaded on this Forum.
Thank you so much for your kind help, if possible.

Best regards, JH 

[rikkisbears]

Hi Jeff,
Yes you can convert Pa4X styles to Yamaha.
First you need to Export your style as a midi from Pa4X.

Hi Jeff , unfortunately that is the problem, you basically need access to a Pa4x so that you can save / export style as a midi file.

I've never bothered trying to convert Korg to Yamaha. User styles might be ok , but factory styles might be a  problem.

Korg variations can utilise up to 6cv's per style track  ( don't think I've ever found a style that uses all 6,  but have come across some that use 3 to 4) Yamaha  I think only 1cv in user styles maybe 2 in factory styles. So style would have to be dumbed midi file
Guitar mode tracks might also cause problems. Can't remember if when exported as a midifile it exported the notes as a "guitar mode track" ie single notes that triggered strums and chords in the Pa4x, or whether it exported as a track with a complete set of notes that formed a chord.

You'd also have incorrect drum mapping. Korg pa3x/4x/5x. Have xg drumkits, but they're not used in factory styles.

On the whole , I think be far harder to convert Korg factory styles to Yamaha than vice versa.

[rikkisbears]

Oh, right; they used to be all CMaj7 based, but with sff2 (style format 2) the guitars use 'guitar casm'; basically it means instead of a chord it's set to open guitar strings and then moved from there. You're right, that might be tricky to convert, but I think you could convert them to sff1 and bypass some of the issue, but I think that might screw up any megavoice sound effects on any megavoice guitar style tracks


Mark

Hi Mark, couldn't think of the right terminology, " guitar casm"😀.  That really messed up my simple method of converting psr across to Korg. 🙄  Not sure if I've tried converting to sff1, first. Might give that a go.
Thank goodness I only need to do a few. The more complex the arrangers become, the harder it is to convert. I used to enjoy doing it, now it's a chore.😞

[Joe H]

The OP wants to convert Yamaha to Korg.  There is no software to do this but I have a conversion table to do it manually.  The table is to convert Korg  to Yamaha but just rename/remap the markers in reverse.  If the Word doc is not useful I can provide it in pdf.

https://app.box.com/s/qhxv6wm9r0qnsvss4kgrewhvt4v2bake

Joe H

[brucerez]

The OP wants to convert Yamaha to Korg.  There is no software to do this but I have a conversion table to do it manually.  The table is to convert Korg  to Yamaha but just rename/remap the markers in reverse.  If the Word doc is not useful I can provide it in pdf.

https://app.box.com/s/qhxv6wm9r0qnsvss4kgrewhvt4v2bake

Joe H

Thanks Joe for the link. This is a good guide for starting converting between Korg and Yamaha.
The swapping channel 9 and 11 was the first thing I noticed between Korg and Yamaha.

I am still looking for how can we export a style as a midi file format from Yamaha?

Thanks

[pjd]

I am still looking for how can we export a style as a midi file format from Yamaha?

Yamaha style files are Standard MIDI Files (SMF) with additional Yamaha-specific binary chunks for CASM, OTS, etc.

Rename the style file name, that is, change the extension (STY or whatever) to MID. Import into DAW. Done.

BTW, I've spent many hours trying to convert style files of various sorts. Megavoice and "guitar CASM" will drive you crazy -- it is a lot of detailed work. SFF Guitar Edition (AKA "SFF2") uses internal chord voicing tables for guitar tracks. The MIDI notes in the style file are not voiced for guitar -- the internal tables do the voicing.

Good luck and start brewing the coffee to propel your late nights -- pj

[Amwilburn]

*snip*
Thank goodness I only need to do a few. The more complex the arrangers become, the harder it is to convert. I used to enjoy doing it, now it's a chore.😞

Agreed!!

pjd: sff2 guitar casm, I think? Is based on the 6 open strings, (EADGBE) and then yeah, internal tables to find the next correct note on each string. But if you convert to sff1, doesn't that take care of turning it into the standard CM7 (wrecking mega-voice sound effect mapping)?

THe OP has the added difficulty that the exclusive REVO drums in the PA5000 don't even map to any other Yamaha Arranger, so pretty much no matter what he'll need to do a note by note drum reassignment table, in addition to the changes Joe H mentioned.

This is one of the things about the Yamaha community: there is bountiful knowledge and product support (and files) out there for Yamaha.

Mark

[pjd]

pjd: sff2 guitar casm, I think? Is based on the 6 open strings, (EADGBE) and then yeah, internal tables to find the next correct note on each string. But if you convert to sff1, doesn't that take care of turning it into the standard CM7 (wrecking mega-voice sound effect mapping)?

I'm thinking about the weird note groups (I hesitate to call them chords) that are four white notes in a row, like F-G-A-B. I think these are secret messages to the chord voicer to tell it "Make a chord for me using the root note." I've seen this in many Yamaha factory styles and I doubt if any free or commercial tool converts this magic to real (actual) chord notes.

THe OP has the added difficulty that the exclusive REVO drums in the PA5000 don't even map to any other Yamaha Arranger, so pretty much no matter what he'll need to do a note by note drum reassignment table, in addition to the changes Joe H mentioned.

This is another thorny problem which will drive a normal person crazy. When I converted the DJXII patterns to styles, I had to convert drum patterns from note layouts that weren't remotely like Yamaha's current drum set layouts. Getting this "right" is mind-numbing. Good thing a lot of that electronic genre stuff is forgiving as long as you get the kick, snares and high hats right. 

-- pj

[Amwilburn]

OMG the SFF2 guitar casm is based of FGAB? Yeah that's kinda nuts!

Short answer to OP: yes, if you're willing to do a *lot* of manual labour, including manually revoicing the A5000 drums, and possibly re-recording the guitar parts yourself.

[rikkisbears]

I'm thinking about the weird note groups (I hesitate to call them chords) that are four white notes in a row, like F-G-A-B. I think these are secret messages to the chord voicer to tell it "Make a chord for me using the root note." I've seen this in many Yamaha factory styles and I doubt if any free or commercial tool converts this magic to real (actual) chord .

-- pj

Hi,

Tried checking something on  guitar tracks this morning, probably too good to be true, only tested it with 1 style so far, so won't get too optimistic.
Thinking the "guitar casm" may not be used in the same way in intro's and endings 
2 & 3 as it is in the variations and fills. I think the notes play back as recorded, so in Intro's/Endings notes may not have to be converted/transposed. Only mega voices need to be removed.

Variations and fills on the hand ,some notes need to be transposed. The style I tried only used 5 notes in the variations and fills.
The C2 & G2 were used in "guitar casm" track and as notes in a normal chord track.

F2 transposed to E2
A2 ...                  B2      
B2.....                 E3

Should be easy enough to do in xgworks, just have to remember to transpose B2 to E3 first.😁 If it works will be easier than recording half a dozen midi files.

         
Guitar     Note   Guitar   Note
Casm      No.     Chord    No.
         
C2           48       C2        48
         
F2           53      E2        52
         
G2           55      G2        55
         
A2           57        B2        59
         
B2           59       E3      64

         

[ckobu]

..... I've seen this in many Yamaha factory styles and I doubt if any free or commercial tool converts this magic to real (actual) chord notes.

If Yamaha had the will, they could make us a tool that would make making Style and listening to guitars easier, i.e. as it sounds in Stylo. Here I played around with Cakewalk and the Transpose plugin that serves this purpose.

https://youtu.be/mhaRfDWYO9Q?t=271

[pjd]

*** the SFF2 guitar casm is based of FGAB? Yeah that's kinda nuts!

Hi Mark --

Yeah. I didn't know how to convey what I see in words, so here's a piano roll picture of a Megavoice guitar track in the "Detroit Pop" style. Check out those stacks of four notes (F-G-A-B). Nobody in their right mind would play that, so I assume this is some undocumented, play a chord here directive to the SFF GE engine.

-- pj


[attachment unavailable]

[ckobu]

I agree with pjd, visually it is easier to experience what we hear. It's good to see how it looks on the guitar.

https://youtu.be/bJ8Sip05_24?t=194