Is the new KETRON EVENT a serious option/ addition for the GENOS player ?

[john smies]

Hello,

Although I have owned several Yamaha arranger keyboards  ( PSR and TYROS models) I currently find myself with only one arranger keyboard and that is the brand new Ketron Event. I have been following the discussions overhere on the PSR forum as regards the new Ketron and also in relation to the Genos etc.etc.
First though it is high time to dwell on the needs and qualifications of us, the arranger keyboard players, to determine which keyboard and in particular which brand suits someone best. ( Unless of course you can easily afford two or three top arranger keyboards, but even then......)

When asked advice as to the purchase of a new ( top) arranger keyboard I always pose the next four questions:
1. Are you a singer or not ?
2. Are you a gigging artist or not ?
3. Are you interested in reproducing the song as close to the original or not ?
4. Are you a good hand at in depth programming or not ?

The answers to these question , at least my answers would be :
1.  If you are not a singer who wants to feel as if he/she has got a real band 
     backing him/her up, go for Yamaha. It has the best sounds, legions of
     styles, etc.etc.
2.  If you do not perform outdoors and depending on the singer bit, it does
     not make much of a difference, however if you do GIG and do Sing go
     for Korg or Ketron
3.  If you want to reproduce the song (cover version) as close to the original       
     as possible go for Yamaha, with its massive amount of Song Styles....
     If you truly seek to arrange songs and present them in a different
     arrangement from the original, and have time galore, go for Ketron or
     Korg.
4.  If you have a good hand at programming and time galore go for Ketron or Korg.


Now as to my first and fleeting impressions of the Ketron Event.  Response has been erratic so far with some claiming it is great and quite an improvement on the SD9 , others maintaining it is disappointing and even inferior to the SD9.
Let me remind you that when I first bought my Yamaha and more in particular Korg arrangers, I was sorely disappointed most of the time how they sounded Out Of The Box. It was not until the substantial programming and tweaking that I discovered the true potential of my arrangers.
I  played the ketron SD9 for nigh on three years ( always at home, never gigging and doing a lot of indepth tweaking of both styles and sounds, ending up with over 300 worthwhile Registrations, many of which were used in my home-made and home recorded songs and videos 
( see youtube)https://www.youtube.com/@matseims/videos
After having unboxed my Ketron Event and having played it for two hours my first thought was: this has to go back to the shop !!!! OMG !!!
However I also vividly recalled my first experiences with unboxing my Korg/Yammie arrangers in particular those from the days when there was no Songbook and hardly any factory preset registrations.
A week into possession of the Ketron Event I can tell you this much:
The Ketron Event is not for the faint hearted. It comes with virtually no Registrations on board and requires a lot of time, knowhow, dedication and ingenuity to get results. The O.S. is truly complicated in particular if you are not used to Ketron arrangers. My first impression was that the sound and styles were not superior to that of the SD9 but I am beginning to realize that this Is not so Many sounds have been improved , many styles added and of course there is the main new feature of the socalled Real Chords. While still a limited number I have it on good authority that Ketron will extend the number of styles with RealChords even in the course of this year.. One thing stands out : the POTENTIAL of this arranger is truly enormous. The amount of "variables" to influence the overall sound etc. is staggering and as such overwhelming....more of which some either time...

One final observation for the moment which not only relates to this new Ketron but to all top arrangers, but most definitely to this new EVENT arranger. Already I see folks asking for  "where they can acquire or purchase new styles for this new arranger......".No disrespect but the machine sports more than 600 styles that can be tweaked/manipulated in ways beyond belief. That is what any new owner of the Event or interest in the Even should try and pursue.Unless of course you are predominantly interested in Song Styles but then you shoud simply stick with Yamaha imho.

[DerekA]

In my view, regardless of the detail of what the event can/cant do, it is an arranger.

I think blowing 4K on another arranger, when you have Genos, would be a bad decision.

You'd be better spending your money on something that brought something new to the party - e.g. a synth, a drawbar organ, etc.

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for the info and review, John.

I've said it all along, that if you want to be a computer geek first and a musician second, go for Korg or Ketron. If you want to do the opposite - musician first with a bit of computer skills, go for Yamaha.

I watched a question and answer video with the Ketron demonstrator. After about 2 minutes of watching him walk around inside the OS, I was completely turned off and confused. I couldn't believe how convoluted the OS was! If you ask Yamaha what the time of day is, they tell you 12:04 (or whatever). If you ask Ketron or Korg, they tell you how to build a watch 🤣.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Lee :
👍👍
Well said !👏👏👏
JH

[andyg]

Great post John, but with both teacher's and performer's hats on, I'd take a slightly different view of your point #3.

If you truly seek to arrange songs and present them in a different arrangement from the original.....

1-Learn everything you need to know about your keyboard. In particular, get to know its sounds, find the ones you work best with, and the styles in the genres you wish to work in.
2-Learn the arts of arranging, re-arranging, orchestration, registration.
3-Apply the above to your keyboard, regardless of make or model! With a Yamaha, you can do all this on anything from a PSR-E model right up to a Genos. No specific need for a Korg or Ketron for this!
4-Practise like crazy!!

I'll occasionally use a song specific style, but well over 90% of my arrangements, and those that I work on with my students, from Grade 1 to Diploma level, are using just the built in styles. Sometimes revoiced and always rebalanced, occasionally edited, but built in.

As for the other comments, it's been a few years since I had sit down at a keyboard, figure it out in short order and review it, but I can remember the Korgs and Ketrons as being the most idiosyncratic and often non-intuitive. Tricky to get into. Rewarding, sure, if you had the time and inclination but sometimes baffling if you just wanted to sit down, create and play arrangements! The most logical ones for me were Yamaha, Technics, Roland and Casio. Oh, and Kawai, some of which I helped design and voice! These days only two of those are left, of course.

[Danny1972]

The most logical ones for me were Yamaha, Technics, Roland

Hi Andy,

Very nice post you made.

I own many keyboards and two of them are the KN7000 and the EA7, both of which I really struggle with the OS on those two, especially the KN7000, and yet I found the Ketron's OS fairly straight forward if not just a tad illogical. I eventually got to grips with the Korg's and once I did I really enjoyed using my Pa1000, but Korg completely transformed the OS of the Pa5x and is very Yamaha-esq and quite easy to use. The best OS is still Yamaha for me, very straight forward and nothing too complicated about it.

But I am baffled by the KN7000, for example, I still haven't worked out how to edit the tracks of a style or midi file, and the customer style banks are so convoluted and illogical to follow. Strange because maybe people have said they found the Technics OS quite easy to use, maybe it's just me !!

[Danny1972]

Hello,

Although I have owned several Yamaha arranger keyboards  ( PSR and TYROS models) I currently find myself with only one arranger keyboard and that is the brand new Ketron Event. I have been following the discussions overhere on the PSR forum as regards the new Ketron and also in relation to the Genos etc.etc.
First though it is high time to dwell on the needs and qualifications of us, the arranger keyboard players, to determine which keyboard and in particular which brand suits someone best. ( Unless of course you can easily afford two or three top arranger keyboards, but even then......)

When asked advice as to the purchase of a new ( top) arranger keyboard I always pose the next four questions:
1. Are you a singer or not ?
2. Are you a gigging artist or not ?
3. Are you interested in reproducing the song as close to the original or not ?
4. Are you a good hand at in depth programming or not ?

The answers to these question , at least my answers would be :
1.  If you are not a singer who wants to feel as if he/she has got a real band 
     backing him/her up, go for Yamaha. It has the best sounds, legions of
     styles, etc.etc.
2.  If you do not perform outdoors and depending on the singer bit, it does
     not make much of a difference, however if you do GIG and do Sing go
     for Korg or Ketron
3.  If you want to reproduce the song (cover version) as close to the original       
     as possible go for Yamaha, with its massive amount of Song Styles....
     If you truly seek to arrange songs and present them in a different
     arrangement from the original, and have time galore, go for Ketron or
     Korg.
4.  If you have a good hand at programming and time galore go for Ketron or Korg.


Now as to my first and fleeting impressions of the Ketron Event.  Response has been erratic so far with some claiming it is great and quite an improvement on the SD9 , others maintaining it is disappointing and even inferior to the SD9.
Let me remind you that when I first bought my Yamaha and more in particular Korg arrangers, I was sorely disappointed most of the time how they sounded Out Of The Box. It was not until the substantial programming and tweaking that I discovered the true potential of my arrangers.
I  played the ketron SD9 for nigh on three years ( always at home, never gigging and doing a lot of indepth tweaking of both styles and sounds, ending up with over 300 worthwhile Registrations, many of which were used in my home-made and home recorded songs and videos 
( see youtube)https://www.youtube.com/@matseims/videos
After having unboxed my Ketron Event and having played it for two hours my first thought was: this has to go back to the shop !!!! *** !!!
However I also vividly recalled my first experiences with unboxing my Korg/Yammie arrangers in particular those from the days when there was no Songbook and hardly any factory preset registrations.
A week into possession of the Ketron Event I can tell you this much:
The Ketron Event is not for the faint hearted. It comes with virtually no Registrations on board and requires a lot of time, knowhow, dedication and ingenuity to get results. The O.S. is truly complicated in particular if you are not used to Ketron arrangers. My first impression was that the sound and styles were not superior to that of the SD9 but I am beginning to realize that this Is not so Many sounds have been improved , many styles added and of course there is the main new feature of the socalled Real Chords. While still a limited number I have it on good authority that Ketron will extend the number of styles with RealChords even in the course of this year.. One thing stands out : the POTENTIAL of this arranger is truly enormous. The amount of "variables" to influence the overall sound etc. is staggering and as such overwhelming....more of which some either time...

One final observation for the moment which not only relates to this new Ketron but to all top arrangers, but most definitely to this new EVENT arranger. Already I see folks asking for  "where they can acquire or purchase new styles for this new arranger......".No disrespect but the machine sports more than 600 styles that can be tweaked/manipulated in ways beyond belief. That is what any new owner of the Event or interest in the Even should try and pursue.Unless of course you are predominantly interested in Song Styles but then you shoud simply stick with Yamaha imho.

Great post John, you know that we are both experiencing similar things with our Ketron journeys but I am glad it is improving for both of us !

[ton37]

Hi Andy,

Very nice post you made.

I own many keyboards and two of them are the KN7000 and the EA7, both of which I really struggle with the OS on those two, especially the KN7000, and yet I found the Ketron's OS fairly straight forward if not just a tad illogical. I eventually got to grips with the Korg's and once I did I really enjoyed using my Pa1000, but Korg completely transformed the OS of the Pa5x and is very Yamaha-esq and quite easy to use. The best OS is still Yamaha for me, very straight forward and nothing too complicated about it.

But I am baffled by the KN7000, for example, I still haven't worked out how to edit the tracks of a style or midi file, and the customer style banks are so convoluted and illogical to follow. Strange because maybe people have said they found the Technics OS quite easy to use, maybe it's just me !!

Hi Danny, perhaps this is the 'proof' that if you grow up with a certain make/model you will find it 'easy' over time. I've had all the Techics from the start and really dived into it at the time. Now, after so many years, I, like you, would have to spend quite some time to get back to that level. Something similar to 'growing up' with windows or Word over the years....
So it is very understandable that Yammies remain Yammies

[mikf]

These TOTL arrangers have differences, and the differences are what we talk about in forums like this. But behind this actually the similarities are much greater than the differences. At the end of the day they all do pretty much the same thing. Its like a Mercedes and a Lexus, we all have preferences, but the fact is that we can do 99% the same things in both, although maybe the way we do it can be very slightly different.
Even the sounds are similar, we can debate details here like whether the Event Piano is better than the Genos, to the Yamaha guitars are better than the Korg - but the fact is they are all very good, and in isolation, most listeners would not notice that much difference. To the listener, the difference between the people playing them are vastly more important to the finished article than the technical differences in the machines.   
Mike

[tyrosrick]

I agree with MIKF. If I were put behind a Yamaha or Ketron or Korg TOTL arranger, they would all sound bad; put Peter Bartmann behind any of these, even a toy piano from Walmart, and the sounds are magnificent!

[stephenm52]

John Smies,  AndyG, Lee, MikF and others, all very informative posts.  Me?  I'm a die hard Yamaha Fan Boy and will continue to be.  I'm not looking for a replacement to my Genos, it does everything I need it to do.  Based on some serious health issues and my age 71 I think I purchased my last arranger with the DGX670 and SX900. Genos continues to be my go to keyboard.

[BogdanH]

... if you want to be a computer geek first and a musician second, go for Korg or Ketron. If you want to do the opposite - musician first with a bit of computer skills, go for Yamaha.
..

I have no idea where from that myth comes. I mean, every keyboard is ready to play out of the box: pick style, pick voice and that's it. There's no special "launch procedure" needed on Ketron or Korg. What makes the impression that i.e. Korg is more complicated than Yamaha, is because Korg has more options. If someone doesn't need those options, then Yamaha is better choice for him obviously. But some need them (or simply wish to have them) and are so also ready to invest some time to learn them. This has nothing to do with being computer geek.

Example: those who tried to make custom voice on Yamaha arranger can confirm, that voices actually can't be edited on keyboard itself. The only thing we do is, we add effects on existing voice sound -we can't change/remove settings or effects which have been applied at voice creation. Some might say "who cares, Yamaha voices sound the best anyway"... is ok, no reason to switch brand then. But if I wish to get voice to sound exactly to my liking (not only "close enough"), then I start looking at other brands and try to learn how to do it. As said, is just an example.

All this has nothing to do with which brand/keyboard is better or if someone is good/bad keyboard player. Everyone should individually choose what works better for him/her.

Bogdan

[Lee Batchelor]

I have no idea where from that myth comes. I mean, every keyboard is ready to play out of the box: pick style, pick voice and that's it. There's no special "launch procedure" needed on Ketron or Korg. What makes the impression that i.e. Korg is more complicated than Yamaha, is because Korg has more options. If someone doesn't need those options, then Yamaha is better choice for him obviously. But some need them (or simply wish to have them) and are so also ready to invest some time to learn them. This has nothing to do with being computer geek.

Example: those who tried to make custom voice on Yamaha arranger can confirm, that voices actually can't be edited on keyboard itself. The only thing we do is, we add effects on existing voice sound -we can't change/remove settings or effects which have been applied at voice creation. Some might say "who cares, Yamaha voices sound the best anyway"... is ok, no reason to switch brand then. But if I wish to get voice to sound exactly to my liking (not only "close enough"), then I start looking at other brands and try to learn how to do it. As said, is just an example.

All this has nothing to do with which brand/keyboard is better or if someone is good/bad keyboard player. Everyone should individually choose what works better for him/her.

Bogdan

Absolutely right Bogdan - to a point. My comments must always be interpreted from a performer's view. If I'm in the middle of a song and things aren't going well with the singer, I need to have the editing features of the Genos right at my finger tips. I can't waste time drilling down through endless menus or exiting out to the Home page looking for whatever. I don't have a clue if the other two keyboards are easy to adjust during a song but I know the Genos is. With one or two screen taps, I can tame my song without the singer or audience knowing that I just changed something. All they know is that the song somehow sounds a little bit better.

[Whitecolin11]

Well said, especially around the fact that you have too work to get the best out if it. One question you have`nt said is how you rate the styles etc. I remember hearing the demo of the Genos and was blown away.I have a Genos, Korg Pa5x the later needs some work in iis Os to really reach its potential, Does the Ketron styles blow you away or bring something new to the table ?

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Great post John, but with both teacher's and performer's hats on, I'd take a slightly different view of your point #3.

If you truly seek to arrange songs and present them in a different arrangement from the original.....

1-Learn everything you need to know about your keyboard. In particular, get to know its sounds, find the ones you work best with, and the styles in the genres you wish to work in.
2-Learn the arts of arranging, re-arranging, orchestration, registration.
3-Apply the above to your keyboard, regardless of make or model! With a Yamaha, you can do all this on anything from a PSR-E model right up to a Genos. No specific need for a Korg or Ketron for this!
4-Practise like crazy!!

I'll occasionally use a song specific style, but well over 90% of my arrangements, and those that I work on with my students, from Grade 1 to Diploma level, are using just the built in styles. Sometimes revoiced and always rebalanced, occasionally edited, but built in.

As for the other comments, it's been a few years since I had sit down at a keyboard, figure it out in short order and review it, but I can remember the Korgs and Ketrons as being the most idiosyncratic and often non-intuitive. Tricky to get into. Rewarding, sure, if you had the time and inclination but sometimes baffling if you just wanted to sit down, create and play arrangements! The most logical ones for me were Yamaha, Technics, Roland and Casio. Oh, and Kawai, some of which I helped design and voice! These days only two of those are left, of course.

Even though i use Cubase 12 and edit things Andy is 100% right 
Know your machine and practice like crazy.
I put in a couple of hours a day just practicing as i was a late starter in life on keyboards.
For me playing is just starting to give me rewards and now i am looking at going deeper into the mix and master side.
All this without playing out live.
I just love playing and now i have got to think about writing my own music after doing a lot of covers.
It is all fun for me and delving into the Genos effects opens up a whole new world for Genos quality.
Yes, there are unwanted artifacts in some sounds, but EQ can deal with that.
The Genos can easily match that of the Ketron and is a ton lot better than the Korg PAX5 except for piano's.
The sax on the Genos is unbelievable and you can get fantastic ones with a little manipulation.
I have not heard anything yet that would convince me to change from Genos to whatever and that is why Yamaha probably not bothered.
Seamless switching is the big one for me as the horrid flack left behind which is visible in Cubase does cloud or muddy a song if not cleared.
When changing a style or putting a fill in, there must be a few milliseconds of of not changing or hitting the fill button which makes us human.
This does leave note partials all over the place and can muddy and make notes sound as though they are glitching.
In Cubase you can highlight each track and choose a note length being small and press a button on the computer which clears the lot in one stroke. You then may have to quantize forward or backwards to fill in some gaps
I am only talking about the style section here as when you play a song it needs the human touch.
Well Andy, I taught myself at the age of 32 from Kenneth Baker books and kept on going and now at 72 i wished i was 18 with the knowledge that i have picked up.
At 18 the girls were more important 

[Danny1972]

I have a Genos, Korg Pa5x the later needs some work in iis Os to really reach its potential, Does the Ketron styles blow you away or bring something new to the table ?

Hello,

I have all 3 and they are very different instruments. The styles on the Event are great and very well programmed as well. They do offer something different. Since the Audya, Ketron's main emphasis has been on using audio & live sounding drums and guitars amongst other things, this gives a different sound, almost quite raw sounding, I guess you could say "live" sounding. I then find the Yamaha the complete opposite, a more rich clean and polished sounding instrument. For me, neither can sound like each other which is why I have them because I like the sound of both. The Korg usually sits in the middle although I have found the Pa5x more mellow sounding than any Korg before it.

Just my opinions of course.

[ton37]

...... and now at 72 i wished i was 18 with the knowledge that i have picked up.
At 18 the girls were more important 

I don't agree with you @Ugawoga: at 72 the girls are more important ... define: important   

[Jeff Hollande]

Good morning Danny :

You are one of the lucky arranger owners, I guess.
In fact, I think you are the only player ( ever ) in this forum who owns all three newest arrangers.

I am almost sure your Genos will be replaced by the Genos' successor as soon it will be available on the UK market if ... the newest Yamaha baby will be a real upgrade, right ?

Congratulations, my friend. 

Best regards, JH

[Danny1972]

Good morning Danny :

I am almost sure your Genos will be replaced by the Genos' successor as soon it will be available on the UK market if ... the newest Yamaha baby will be a real upgrade, right ?

Congratulations, my friend. 

Best regards, JH

Thanks again for your kind works Jeff

Yes, if the next Genos (or whatever) is significantly different enough then I would absolutely consider it. The longer its taking the more I think the differences may significant, I can't imagine it will be a simple increment otherwise Yamaha would have done it by now I'm sure. 

[Jeff Hollande]

My pleasure, Danny.
Call me a jealous guy.   

If the new Yamaha high end arranger would only be an updated Genos ... most Yamaha lovers would not be happy, IMHO.

BUT ... in my mind Yamaha will come with a complete new arranger that will blow the competition out of the water ...
Wishful thinking ? Time will tell. 

JH
   

[Danny1972]

BUT ... in my mind Yamaha will come with a complete new arranger that will blow the competition out of the water ...
Wishful thinking ? Time will tell. 

That's a subjective comment really because for some people no matter what Yamaha or anybody does won't always necessarily mean it would blow anything anyway, perhaps to a person who wants to keep to one brand it may well be the case for them, but in my experience none of the 3 I have blow each other away, or maybe they do blow each other away, depends how you look at it lol !!! I just think of them as the 3 outstanding keyboards out there available and we can either choose 1, 2 or all 3 of them, and another one of them is likely to be updated soon which makes it even more exciting to see what new things will come.

The thing is with me, I started off as Yamaha only right up until the PSR8000 (from my first ever keyboard the PSS790 then a host of PSR mid ranges right until the only Yamaha flagship I had at the time, the PSR8000), then I switched to Korg for a few years, then back to Yamaha with the Tyros3 and missed the sound of the Korg but I didn't want to keep switching over between the two so the answer was to have both since. I then added a Ketron in 2019 initially with the SD7 just to give another variety to the music. Thankfully those are the only main 3 now otherwise I'd be a bit stuck, I can just about manage having 3 flagships both in terms of expense and the room, and I am only a hobbiest but as it's the only serious hobby I have, all the resources go towards this, plus being a single person helps too!

[mikf]

The Yamaha arrangers are great but have never blown everything else out the water. That's why the other brands are still around. And that is a good thing for the consumer.
We all have different priorities, but for myself, I just don't see that having two or more arrangers would offer much. It's not the cost or space, I just don't see why I would try to learn several different systems to achieve pretty much the same end result.
Mike

[BogdanH]

Well said Mike and completely agree.
One day I hope I'll be able to jump into TOTL keyboard and if that happens, as you said, I would probably keep only one. I love to learn stuff, but to get most out of keyboard, I need to concentrate only on one... and at the end, I only have two hands. But then, I'm sure it makes fun having two (or more) keyboards and comparing them personally 

Bogdan

[soundphase]

If money was not an issue, I would prefer to complete the Genos 2 with a nord stage 4 than an event.

[mikf]

If money was not an issue, I would prefer to complete the Genos 2 with a nord stage 4 than an event.

That is different, and makes more sense to me. For years I had an arranger and a digital  piano, they are complimentary instruments.  While two TOTL arrangers are largely overlapping rather than complimentary.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

If money was not an issue, I would prefer to complete the Genos 2 with a nord stage 4 than an event.

Agreed. When I bought my Genos, I traded my Nord Electro 5 and Tyros 5. I wish I had kept the Nord. It was their 71 key version and its pianos, e.pianos, and B3s destroyed the Genos ones. Those voices on the Genos aren't even house broken. How did Nord achieve it? They added more memory, which at the time was cheap because we didn't have Putin or Covid. I'm assuming Yamaha will clean up those three voices in Genos 2 but it will cost us all more than most of us paid for our first two cars!

[tyrosman]

if you want a Ketron buy it if not then dont at the end of the day its what you are happy with i stick by Yamaha and always will

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I don't agree with you @Ugawoga: at 72 the girls are more important ... define: important   

In Yer Dreams!! unless you can stamp a new sell by date on them!!

[ton37]

No, no, you're thinking with a dirty mind  The girls are very important when you are 72: they help you with care, are friendly to you in the bar because you are not a 'threat', drive you around in your wheelchair, give you an arm more easily when crossing the street.... 

[rikkisbears]

I eventually got to grips with the Korg's and once I did I really enjoyed using my Pa1000, but Korg completely transformed the OS of the Pa5x and is very Yamaha-esq and quite easy to use. The best OS is still Yamaha for me, very straight forward and nothing too complicated about it.

Hi Danny, tend to agree. The PA5x is far easier to get around than the prior korgs.  Definitely Yamaha - esq with some of the functions .