Evidence of bad keybed on Korg Pa5X 88

[AndrewKeyz]

I present to you a video I just uploaded with the rattling and squeaking keybed issues I have on my Korg Pa5X 88.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mys3xzQhSnQ&ab_channel=AndrewKeyz

It is worst at Eb and E just above middle C, extremely rattly and an octave higher there are squeaks at the E and G.
Even without these issues you can probably deduce the keybed is just noisy. Just a very thud / clunk experience however you play.
And you have to play hard to get sound out of the machine, trust me!

Note I have hardly played the thing, only recorded 3 songs and 1 other I practiced a bit where I didn't make a video of.

This video been shared with Bonners where I bought it from. I will see what their thoughts are.

To be honest even if I got it fixed I don't want this stupid keyboard anymore.
A £4300 joke.

[Graham UK]

Agreed...Sad & Frustrating.
My low priced (£799) DGX670 has a far better Key-Bed.

[BogdanH]

uh.. that's really bad! -no excuse can justify that.
To be honest, I was thinking that maybe "one day" I could afford (61 or 76key) Pa5X. But after seeing that: no way -regardless the price.

Thank you for sharing.. really appreciate.
Bogdan

[AndrewKeyz]

uh.. that's really bad! -no excuse can justify that.
To be honest, I was thinking that maybe "one day" I could afford (61 or 76key) Pa5X. But after seeing that: no way -regardless the price.

Thank you for sharing.. really appreciate.
Bogdan

Honestly don't bother wishing for it Bogdan.
If you use registrations on your Yammie, the Korg will seem like a huge step backwards in comparison.

If you don't use registrations; then use them! You will never look back. 

[rodrigo.b]

That's really bad. I don't like many sounds of the Pa5x but there are a lot of things that you can do very easily on the Pa5x that you cannot do in the Genos or even my most expensive CVP 809.

[Lee Batchelor]

Between that pathetic keybed build quality that someone should have caught before that particular keyboard was released and the OS being about 50% ready when Korg pushed this thing out to market, I wouldn't take a PA5X if you gave it to me.

No registration buttons? I don't see how even the most basic player would be happy with any keyboard that doesn't have registration buttons. It's such a powerful tool that lets me do things with my Genos that I couldn't otherwise do. For example when our band plays certain R&B songs form the 60s, I use:

1) Left hand organ sound with right hand brass fills.
2) Sax solo on right hand with e.piano on left.
3) Full e.piano block chording on the whole keyboard.
4) Go back to the first setting for the outro.

Let's see a PA5X player do that without pre-recording it all in MIDI or without registration buttons. I'll wait for Genos 2 .

[tyrosrick]

***! So sorry to hear those skeleton-bone like sounding keys you have there. No excuse for Korg (or Bonners) to not make it right. I'm really glad I chose to buy a Genos this year; keys sound good, er, the DON"T sound at all . Best wishes for a favorable resolution to your issue, and I'm sure others on the fence for a Korg Pa5X 88 will think more than twice.

[AndrewKeyz]

Between that pathetic keybed build quality that someone should have caught before that particular keyboard was released and the OS being about 50% ready when Korg pushed this thing out to market, I wouldn't take a PA5X if you gave it to me.

No registration buttons? I don't see how even the most basic player would be happy with any keyboard that doesn't have registration buttons. It's such a powerful tool that lets me do things with my Genos that I couldn't otherwise do. For example when our band plays certain R&B songs form the 60s, I use:

1) Left hand organ sound with right hand brass fills.
2) Sax solo on right hand with e.piano on left.
3) Full e.piano block chording on the whole keyboard.
4) Go back to the first setting for the outro.

Let's see a PA5X player do that without pre-recording it all in MIDI or without registration buttons. I'll wait for Genos 2 .

To be fair you can "possibly" set that up that song close enough with the 4 keyset (only 4, never more unless you want to use the keyset presets which I believe are not associated to a song and can only be setup once) options but it cannot control the style at the same time, so if you wanted to trigger the outro at step 4 whilst switching back to another sound/split point etc, that is not possible. You'd still have to press at least two buttons: one to change the keyset and the other to switch on the outro.
It makes playing cumbersome and the 4 keyset limitation is awful. I've done medleys with 20 registrations on the Genos. I have no idea how to even achieve that on the PA5X. I guess the setlist could do a few things, but I'm not sure.

If you look at the mess of how to program the matrix pad on the PA5X, you will either laugh or give yourself a headache:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B70jZuqEXzI&ab_channel=ForeverLearning

Another annoyance on the PA5X I think is the fact that sounds are treated as keysets by default as if you are going through one touch settings on the Genos. So then it is really unclear when a split point is used or not.

It's a confusing mess to be honest and I doubt this keyboard can give you good / quick live performance control. The Genos can do so much more for that type of setting and is easier to use.

From so many perspectives I think a SX900, SX700 and possibly even a SX600 will be better in use.

Comparing it to the Genos is crazy. The PA5X is not in the same league, no chance. Neither will the Ketron Event be I am willing to bet. Again no physical reg buttons. They may exist on the screen but that will probably prove difficult in use during fast songs.

[Jeff Hollande]

Reasons enough to wait for the Genos' successor. 

JH

[AndrewKeyz]

***! So sorry to hear those skeleton-bone like sounding keys you have there. No excuse for Korg (or Bonners) to not make it right. I'm really glad I chose to buy a Genos this year; keys sound good, er, the DON"T sound at all . Best wishes for a favorable resolution to your issue, and I'm sure others on the fence for a Korg Pa5X 88 will think more than twice.

Thanks for your thoughts. 

I will update here if I hear back from Bonners and what my options will be.

I got so annoyed with the rattling of the keys, I think that started around the time I used the PA5X for recordings back in November, that I quickly looked for a second hand Genos. I found one that was hardly used! And it also came from Bonners. Crazy.

I hardly played the PA5X between July and November as I was in the middle of job changes. In fact I got informed about redundancies at my old company the exact day I took delivery of the PA5X: on the 5th of July! So there was no way for me to even enjoy it initially.

Had I been able to play it straight away without other distractions and found out about the rattling, I possibly would have insisted on a return within the 30 day window.

The whole point of me buying the PA5X was the weighted key action. I never considered anything else. It was stupid in hindsight. As mentioned even a DGX670 is probably better in use!

I can cry but I am laughing more at the absurdity.

[Jeff Hollande]

Feel very sorry to hear your PA5X/88 experiences, Andrew. 
What about other endusers' comments ?

JH

[AndrewKeyz]

Feel very sorry to hear your PA5X/88 experiences, Andrew. 
What about other endusers' comments ?

JH

Thanks Jeff.

On the Korg forums there was someone else who had problems with his keybed where some keys weren't working at all and he was allowed to open the keyboard up to fix it himself whilst maintaining warranty.
He argued that the keyboard feels hard to play, worse than the Roland PHA50 keybed and he is looking to dampen it. He also said it is very loud and prefers the Roland keybed but thinks the Fatar is actually "more precise".

So it wasn't just my imagination of bad unit either. It is definitely harder to play than the RD2000 I had and I already thought that one was a hard keybed to get to grips with.
Like I posted before: there just feels this disconnect between playing and what you hear. So you really have to ram the keys. This isn't natural for a pianist in my opinion.

[Divemaster]

Shocking. I was considering buying this Korg, but I will not do so now.
Thanks for the heads up.

[frozzers]

Thanks Jeff.

On the Korg forums there was someone else who had problems with his keybed where some keys weren't working at all and he was allowed to open the keyboard up to fix it himself whilst maintaining warranty.
He argued that the keyboard feels hard to play, worse than the Roland PHA50 keybed and he is looking to dampen it. He also said it is very loud and prefers the Roland keybed but thinks the Fatar is actually "more precise".

So it wasn't just my imagination of bad unit either. It is definitely harder to play than the RD2000 I had and I already thought that one was a hard keybed to get to grips with.
Like I posted before: there just feels this disconnect between playing and what you hear. So you really have to ram the keys. This isn't natural for a pianist in my opinion.

I've got Pa5X 88 and a DGX-670 for that matter.

I have no issues at all with the Pa5X keybed. It feels really good and I can't say I've noticed any significant playing difference between the two.

I understand your frustration but it seems like yours is a rogue keyboard and, if that's the case, surely all you have to do is return it for a full refund or replacement. If you bought a new Porsche 911 and you found it wasn't fit for purpose would you then declare that all 911s were rubbish?

By the way, regarding your volume issue, I too thought the default overall volume was low. Did you check the manual (P595) on the MaxxAudio function? After increasing the MaxxVolume, I significantly increased the volume. It's plenty loud enough now.

Cheers

Chris

[Lee Batchelor]

Even if the keybed was stellar and the sounds better than the Genos, I would still wait for the Genos 2. I want to be a musician, not a computer geek. It seems that using the 5X requires way too much fiddling with the OS. Once you have the Genos set up, you just use it for playing tunes, which is the whole idea. I have enough trouble working with a Windows PC and MS Office and all its trap doors. I don't need yet another nerdy piece of hardware to add more grief to my day.

The bottom line is: When choosing a keyboard, ask yourself, "Do I want to work in my keyboard or on it?" I prefer the latter.

[Jeff Hollande]

Yes, Lee, that is absolutely right. ☝️☝️☝️

IMO Andrew's problem MUST be solved by his dealer, asap.
The dealer sold Andrew this keyboard. Nobody else.
There is no other option than to pay back.
Then it will be Andrew's choice what will happen.

Best regards, JH

[AndrewKeyz]

I've got Pa5X 88 and a DGX-670 for that matter.

I have no issues at all with the Pa5X keybed. It feels really good and I can't say I've noticed any significant playing difference between the two.

I understand your frustration but it seems like yours is a rogue keyboard and, if that's the case, surely all you have to do is return it for a full refund or replacement. If you bought a new Porsche 911 and you found it wasn't fit for purpose would you then declare that all 911s were rubbish?

By the way, regarding your volume issue, I too thought the default overall volume was low. Did you check the manual (P595) on the MaxxAudio function? After increasing the MaxxVolume, I significantly increased the volume. It's plenty loud enough now.

Cheers

Chris

Doubt I will get a full refund after 7 months. So far Bonners haven't even replied to me, which they do normally do straight away when you are interested in buying a new product.

If there is no playing difference between a keybed found in an £800 machine and one in a £4300, is that a good thing? I don't think so.

The most expensive digital Kawai with excellent keybed (as universally praised on piano forums) I can buy from Bonners right now is listed at £4,499, only £200 more than the PA5X 88. That is an entire polished cabinet with a soundboard and speakers.

Do I expect the keybed to be as good as in that type of full piano replica from Kawai? Nope, I can understand there are compromises in a compact cabinet that is more focused to work as an arranger, you are paying for the software, the buttons and the sound. But at the same time should I expect the keybed to be a million miles off that Kawai, and break within a few months of playing?

[AndrewKeyz]

Even if the keybed was stellar and the sounds better than the Genos, I would still wait for the Genos 2. I want to be a musician, not a computer geek. It seems that using the 5X requires way too much fiddling with the OS. Once you have the Genos set up, you just use it for playing tunes, which is the whole idea. I have enough trouble working with a Windows PC and MS Office and all its trap doors. I don't need yet another nerdy piece of hardware to add more grief to my day.

The bottom line is: When choosing a keyboard, ask yourself, "Do I want to work in my keyboard or on it?" I prefer the latter.

The stupid thing these arrangers are sold as one man band machines. IF you want to record in lossless format you currently will need something else attached to the PA5X. It can only do MP3.

When I recorded a song for the first time and it stated MP3 I just thought "Oh that's ok, this is just a quick recording, I will figure out how to record in WAV later, no worries."
It can't even do it by firmware 1.1 at the moment.

I find that ridiculous. I had no idea when I bought it. Just assumed WAV would be included as a recording option.

The analogy with the car would be the Porsche 911 is great but it cannot drive backwards, it has no reverse gear at the moment. But that's ok because you can get out and push the car backwards, right?

[richkeys]

Doubt I will get a full refund after 7 months.

If the store won't exchange one for you I suppose the next step would be to contact Korg. I assume the warranty period is a year? and you only had it for 7 months. Korg will probably send you to an authorized repair center who would see if they can fix the noises before recommending replacement. Me personally, at this price, I would push to get it replaced by the store or Korg.

[AndrewKeyz]

If the store won't exchange one for you I suppose the next step would be to contact Korg. I assume the warranty period is a year? and you only had it for 7 months. Korg will probably send you to an authorized repair center who would see if they can fix the noises before recommending replacement. Me personally, at this price, I would push to get it replaced by the store or Korg.

I have 5 years extended warranty supposedly so I expect this will be sorted eventually.
Sure if Bonners won't do a decent P/X I wouldn't mind a full replacement that if boxed I could sell on, even if it means giving 10% to the eBay.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Andrew :

If the defect keybed is a purely technical problem ( not caused by you nor by a third person ), a 100% refund is a must, even after 7 months ( assuming the arranger looks like new ).

However, the dealer ( in The Netherlands ) mostly has 3 possible choices ( IMHO ) :
01. Pay back the full amount.
02. Offer a brand new PA5X/88.
03. A complete repair ( like new, 100% warranty repair date ).

Most customers will never accept # 03, I guess.

Bye for now,
JH     

[BogdanH]

I see nothing bad in repair.. the problem might be, it usually takes quite a long time (and being already disappointed, one day can sound like a week).
Ok, I can understand that you're pi**ed about this (I would be too!). But even if it would work flawless, it seems Pa5X is not what you imagined (or wished for). Means, there are chances, you would sell it anyway.. and if that's the case, just choose the quickest procedure with minimum loss.
It's well known that PSR-SX keybeds aren't of highest quality: keys (especially black ones) start to rattle over the time. I took my keyboard apart and (hopefully) properly greased each key.. and I'm happy camper now. But if I would be in general unhappy with it, I would just sell it (and would try to forget the loss).
I know, for someone who's not involved, it's easy to say "sh*t happens" 

Just my 2c,
Bogdan

[Amwilburn]

Thanks Jeff.

On the Korg forums there was someone else who had problems with his keybed where some keys weren't working at all and he was allowed to open the keyboard up to fix it himself whilst maintaining warranty.
He argued that the keyboard feels hard to play, worse than the Roland PHA50 keybed and he is looking to dampen it. He also said it is very loud and prefers the Roland keybed but thinks the Fatar is actually "more precise".

So it wasn't just my imagination of bad unit either. It is definitely harder to play than the RD2000 I had and I already thought that one was a hard keybed to get to grips with.
Like I posted before: there just feels this disconnect between playing and what you hear. So you really have to ram the keys. This isn't natural for a pianist in my opinion.

Hmm... I had a customer who wanted to preorder the PA5x88, but I warned him to try the keys on the Korg C1/D1/G1 first because they're probably a lot slower than he's used to (he has a grand piano with fast key repetition). And he went "ew!". So he preordered the 76 key instead (and cancelled as soon as he spent 2 hours in the shop trying it out, but that's another story. At least he liked the keys and sound).

Fatar keybeds in general are noisier, but that extra rattling isn't normal, no. But if you didn't like the RD2000 keys? Those are the fastest keys Roland has ever produced (although the all wooden keys of say the FP90x are a touch slower, they actually feel nicer). So if you didn't like the RD2000 keys? It's a safe bet to eliminate pretty much all brands key actions except Yamaha, Casio, and possibly Kawai (we don't carry, so I haven't tried any of their wooden key actions in over a decade. When I did try them, they were fast as well, but a bit looser / floppier than I'd have liked, but yes still better than Fatar).

I hope Bonners can get Korg to repair your rattle, or even let you swap it with a CVP (the PA5x88 + speaker & stand costs about the same as a CVP805 in matte black (same chipset as PSRsx900) and you will love those keys).

But just for some perspective, I've seen that kind of rattle on most plastic key actions, eventually over time. Even from top brands.

Mark

[Lee Batchelor]

I don't know about the store you deal with Andrew, but in Canada I deal with a large store chain, whereby if that happened and I was totally disgusted with the product, they would charge me the number of months as a rental instead of a full purchase. Either way I would lose money but not the massive amount of depreciation I would normally suffer. Also, if your store is unsure about this deal, offer to take the money as an in-store credit. That way, they aren't out any "real" money because you have committed to spending it with them.

You may not get all your money back but you don't need to take a beating either, especially when the product has so many faults. They owe you the good will, especially in this market. If they flat out refuse, shake their hand and say, "I won't be back and the word will get around about your business practice."

[kiplis]

How are the keys on Pa5X 61 and 76 models... Are there any known problems there?

-Kiplis-

[Amwilburn]

How are the keys on Pa5X 61 and 76 models... Are there any known problems there?

-Kiplis-

Having tried both? Absolutely fantastic keys. IMO nicer than even the Genos ones.
But as Andrew said, the interface... not as intuitive. And for people like us who *need* registrations... I mean, why have seamless voice switching if you're not going to have registrations?

Mark

[BogdanH]

ah.. I though that all Pa5X's use same key technology and that 88-key version just has more of them (but I never really checked differences in specs).
Those who follow my posts will confirm that I try to never bash a keyboard that I don't personally know. Opposite actually: I try to see positive sides. But after seeing Andrew's video I don't really care about Pa5X anymore. Such noise just isn't acceptable (not even for 1000€ keyboard). An 5000€ keyboard should last a lifetime and maybe show it's age after 10 years of use.

Bogdan

[usaraiya]

Having tried both? Absolutely fantastic keys. IMO nicer than even the Genos ones.
But as Andrew said, the interface... not as intuitive. And for people like us who *need* registrations... I mean, why have seamless voice switching if you're not going to have registrations?

Mark

I believe the "registrations" are there in the 5X, and they are called Keyboard sets and they are stored in the "Favorites", There are 11 Favorite buttons available for instant "registration" access.


Uday

[Amwilburn]

I believe the "registrations" are there in the 5X, and they are called Keyboard sets and they are stored in the "Favorites", There are 11 Favorite buttons available for instant "registration" access.


Uday

I'll try that, thanks!

[AndrewKeyz]

I believe the "registrations" are there in the 5X, and they are called Keyboard sets and they are stored in the "Favorites", There are 11 Favorite buttons available for instant "registration" access.


Uday

True, this way you can store 11 favourite keyboard sets / keysets and 4 that you can pre-program against each song.

For many performers this will be a way to go and possibly enough. In fact (and somewhat surprisingly) I see several Genos performers on YouTube who have amassed millions of views never touch registration buttons. They can probably use a Korg arranger fine and never notice the difference.


However registrations in the Yamaha arranger world can do so much more; change the style, control the style section, change break/intro/outro, trigger multipads, transpose, change tempo.

It is coming from a different angle/perspective to things. One that I think works very well once you get into it. And you can share registrations or buy them, it makes for a great preparation tool for your performing. You can easily organise your registrations to the point in theory you can play for the rest of your life by changing to the next registration bank and the bank after that etc and never stopping.

A keyboard set is only skimming the surface I think. More like One Touch Settings. So the 11 favourites on the Korg are like having 11 favourite One Touch Settings at your disposal.


Like I said this may suit some people fine and that's ok. Whatever floats your boat.