Professional styles and sounds - Sample Creator (Italy)

[svpworld]

Hi everyone
I haven't seen this mentioned on the forums, so thought I would share.  I recently discovered a company in Italy called 'Sample Creator'. Website is https://samplecreator.it/en/
They offer a small number of new voices for Genos, as well as Styles.  Amongst the styles are what they describe as 'Revolution Algorithm' which appear to be audio styles.  These are rather expensive, however clearly a lot of work has gone into them including professional real players and real guitars, bass and drum sections.  Kind of similar to what we've been hearing from the new Ketron Event I guess.
I've listened to the samples and they do sound good, also signed up for a free style (you do have to send your instrument details though as the software is obviously protected from copying).

Shame the audio styles are so expensive, maybe someone has tried them before? 

Forgot to also say they have a YouTube channel with some Genos demos of their products - the Martin acoustic guitar sounds particularly nice ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaWYCGEXz0g
https://www.youtube.com/@samplecreator481


Regards
Simon

[keynote]

Thanks for the heads-up, Simon. I really like the Gibson sc guitar. Here's another YouTube video showcasing the REVOLUTION ALGORITHM "STYLES" - using a Yamaha Genos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDzr_A58520

All the best, Mike

[musicteach]

These styles do sound very good indeed.  The style packs come out to less than 10 euros per style.  But....it is not clear if the demos of these styles are played using stock Genos sounds, or the very expensive sounds they are selling. 

[mikf]

They do sound good, and are mostly dance styles, the very modern sort that many complain are missing from Yamaha arrangers - house, funk etc. I don't think the price is unreasonable because there is a huge amount of work in creating styles.
Mike

[Eric, B]

I bought the REVOLUTION ALGORITHM pack a while back when it was on sale.
These styles are some of the best styles I have: Live drums, Live Bass and Live guitars.
Amazing groove for each style.
You can easily mix style parts with the assembly function..
All the parts sound better than the Genos stock sounds.
They are expensive, but worth the money if you can afford it.
I am amazed at the realism every time I play these styles
Eric

[tyrosman]

I bought the REVOLUTION ALGORITHM pack a while back when it was on sale.
These styles are some of the best styles I have: Live drums, Live Bass and Live guitars.
Amazing groove for each style.
You can easily mix style parts with the assembly function..
All the parts sound better than the Genos stock sounds.
They are expensive, but worth the money if you can afford it.
I am amazed at the realism every time I play these styles
Eric

how much are they buddy

[Bill]

Hi Tyrosman

They vary between €300 and €629 for the Evolution packs.

Bill

[mikf]

You get a bunch of styles in a pack, but think it works out to about $8-10 per style.
Mike

[AndrewKeyz]

First off they sound great.

I would be interested in knowing how this was achieved. Is it a matter of transcribing midi events based on real playing (electric drums, midi guitar, midi bass guitar etc) to the Genos or really something more sophisticated with an "algorithm"?

Can't imagine they will sell many packs at these prices though. 300 Euros for 20 styles that are all different categories just doesn't sound that appealing I think regardless of the level of realism. I think many Genos performers probably stay within certain style categories for much of their playing.

Maybe they should have thought about bunching the styles together in style category packs more. IE Pop/Rock, Latin, Dance & House.

[BartW]

I have bought both the original Revolution styles and sounds couple of years ago and just few days ago my wife surprised me with an early Valentine's Day gift and got me the new PLUS pack.

First, I would say the ONLY thing negative about these is that they are expensive AND limited to certain genres (Latin, Pop, R&B, Funk, etc.). However, I understand that to produce something on this level probably took MANY hours of labor and, as someone pointed out, if you divide the total cost per style it comes to about $10/style which is a bargain. Unlike some other offerings, every style is very complete (including intros and endings) and there are no "B" grade styles.

The styles are very "European" or "Italian." And I do mean it as a compliment. If you like how KORG arranges its styles, you will love these. Yamaha styles are often very busy, you need to turn off parts and they may fatigue you after a while with some of the "ear candy." Here, the A-B-C-D variations build up and get more energetic as you would expect but the changes are more subtle, gradual. The extra parts that come in as the styles build up (e.g. strings, horns, etc.) are very tasteful.

I believe the styles are combination of live recordings and programming. The bass lines, for instance, I know they are recorded live and so some of the guitars. The end result is extremely musical, life-like and there is a definite "groove" you feel which is often absent from MIDI styles. That is what I think the algorithm does. It "rotates" the live parts so that the result is feeling a live musician is playing with you.

I am an original Tyros 2 user and I have been through the progression of 2-4-5 and now the Genos. I believe that the Genos is so advanced sonically that if/when V2 comes out it will be an incremental update perhaps focusing on the UI vs advancing the sound. It has been now 4 years since I got the Genos and it still sounds fresh.

The key thing for me with not upgrading is having new/fresh styles so I keep being interested in the instrument. With spending few hundred bucks on bunch of new styles that sound AMAZING make me feel like I got a new keyboard for a fraction of price and I will probably keep this strategy coming as long as Sample Creator keeps making new styles.

[keynote]

First off they sound great.

I would be interested in knowing how this was achieved. Is it a matter of transcribing midi events based on real playing (electric drums, midi guitar, midi bass guitar etc) to the Genos or really something more sophisticated with an "algorithm"?

I set up an account with Sample Creator and by doing so they give you a free style and if you subscribe to their YouTube channel they give you a style with the Algorithm feature. The style I received was the Funky R&B SC G R.A. style. It included an audio Drum sample called Funky ReB var & a Funky ReB fill. Also included was a GTR R.A.DEMO (Elec. Guitar) on Chord 2 in the Mixer/Style menu. Both of them sound good although the style itself only has 1 Intro, 1 Ending, (very basic, as do all the styles they sell from what I've gathered). The style also includes OTS.

Remember folks, Yamaha also had Audio styles way back when, with the Tyros 5. I think at the time, Yamaha decided the technology behind the implementation was somewhat limited. In other words, the regular midi triggered styles allow greater flexibility and better integration overall. Therefore, Yamaha nixed audio styles development since none were included with the Genos. But Yamaha did allow Genos owners to download the Tyros 5 audio styles, 40 in all.

I recorded a short demo to give people an idea of what the Sample Creator style sounds like in a live setting. I also recorded a second short demo of a Yamaha audio style called +Audio 6-8 Pop Ballad to let people hear what it also sounds like in a live setting.

PS: These were one take, on the fly, early in the morning, just fiddling around. So please forgive the rather rudimentary nature of the demos.   

Sample Creator Funky R&B style demo

Yamaha +Audio 6-8 Pop Ballad style demo

NOTE: I could be wrong, but I think Yamaha might have reconsidered using audio styles, and they might be included in the Genos successor. Technology behind the implementation of audio styles in keyboards has advanced significantly since 2013 when the Tyros 5 was released. Therefore, I'm guessing Yamaha might have reversed course and may include some type of audio style implementation and possibly also audio sampled "Voices" in the Genos successor, which should really get people excited, I dare say. Btw, Sample Creator's audio instrument 'sounds' are in many cases fantastic, and I'm seriously considering getting the Guitar Pack which includes 4 Guitars for roughly $79 USD. Euros and the Dollar are almost on parity at present, if I'm not mistaken.

All the best, Mike

[pjd]

NOTE: I could be wrong, but I think Yamaha might have reconsidered using audio styles, and they might be included in the Genos successor. Technology behind the implementation of audio styles in keyboards has advanced significantly since 2013 when the Tyros 5 was released. Therefore, I'm guessing Yamaha might have reversed course and may include some type of audio style implementation and possibly also audio sampled "Voices" in the Genos successor, which should really get people excited, I dare say.

Hi Mike --

Yamaha have several patents on technology that mixes MIDI and audio in auto-accompaniment. They have certainly prototyped this capability:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-patents-summary-2017/

There was such an outcry about audio styles on this forum! It takes a lot of effort (and money) to develop high-quality styles and adding audio certainly doesn't make the development process cheaper. Yamaha will need to determine if there is any money in it, i.e., how it will affect sales. They will need to recover their cost, so I doubt if new fangled audio styles will be part of an upgrade. Like you said, "successor".

All the best -- pj

[Amwilburn]

I set up an account with Sample Creator and by doing so they give you a free style and if you subscribe to their YouTube channel they give you a style with the Algorithm feature. The style I received was the Funky R&B SC G R.A. style. It included an audio Drum sample called Funky ReB var & a Funky ReB fill. Also included was a GTR R.A.DEMO (Elec. Guitar) on Chord 2 in the Mixer/Style menu. Both of them sound good although the style itself only has 1 Intro, 1 Ending, (very basic, as do all the styles they sell from what I've gathered). The style also includes OTS.
*snip*
All the best, Mike

Hi Mike,
thanks for setting up the demos; they really do sound great! However, & perhaps I'm being dense here, but I registered an account, nothing; Subscribed to their youtube channel, but again nothing. Is there a link I'm supposed to click? I did try clicking on their FAQ for how to send my n27 file, but the link didn't respond.

Thanks in advance,

Mark

[rodrigo.b]

I'm looking for some Vallenato/Latin Pop styles with this real audio technology, to play songs from Carlos Vives, Fonseca, Bacilos, etc. But they don't have styles for this genres 

[keynote]

Hi Mike,
thanks for setting up the demos; they really do sound great! However, & perhaps I'm being dense here, but I registered an account, nothing; Subscribed to their youtube channel, but again nothing. Is there a link I'm supposed to click? I did try clicking on their FAQ for how to send my n27 file, but the link didn't respond.

Thanks in advance,

Mark

Hi Mark,

What I did was I created an online account on the Sample Creator website. I put in a request for the free style. They replied by email stating: "To request your free license, you need to reply this email with your name, your surname, your phone number and the INSTRUMENT INFO file as attachment." I gave them my Cell #. PS: The Genos Instrument INFO file needs to be zipped for whatever reason. I put my Genos instrument INFO file on my computer (on the desktop or some other location if you prefer) and used the 7zip program to put it in .zip format. Attached and sent all required information via email, and they replied with the free style. Btw, I used Google browser to access the Sample Creator website. Some browsers might not be fully compatible and therefore may cause glitches, e.g. Opera, Brave, etc. Hope this helps.

All the best, Mike 

[keynote]

Hi Mike --

Yamaha have several patents on technology that mixes MIDI and audio in auto-accompaniment. They have certainly prototyped this capability:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-patents-summary-2017/

All the best -- pj

Thanks for the info, Paul. I did a little research and found three new patents by Yamaha that were filed in (around) 2020, and Yamaha received the patents in January 2023. I will post them here using my Box account. They are .pdf's. It's remarkable how geek-speaky they are, but after reviewing, I think I may have deciphered them. Or, maybe not. 

Patent # 11551653 - Producing more realistic sound(s) for electronic keyboard Piano(s) to make them sound more like real Acoustic Pianos.

Patent # 11557269  - Possibly the ability for a player (playing keys) on a keyboard to see song midi data on a computer screen (automatic performance) and be able to sync screen song data with player key strike data, thereby forming an ensemble to perform movements in synchronization with the automatic performance by the performance device "12", is simplified? Scroll down to find what performance device "12" is.

Patent # 11568244 - Relates to an information processing method, an information processing apparatus, a storage medium, and a computer program that are for processing performance information relating to the performance of a musical piece.   I think it could have something to do with vocal harmony in relation to a musical piece in conjunction with chordal changes, i.e. possibly the new VH3 vocal harmony processing unit to replace VH2?

I think all three patents will be utilized in future Yamaha keyboard products, including MIDI spec 2.0 implementation. And hopefully that will include both the Genos successor and the Montage successor. Time will tell.

All the best, Mike

[Amwilburn]

Thanks Mike!

Now I just have to go home and get my n27 file!

Mark

[svpworld]

I have the free style from them and it does include a couple of custom sounds that the style makes use of. From what I can gather, these voices are similar to megavoices with multiple samples in them that are triggered by the style.  My guess is they are using multisample voices to achieve the 'live' phrasing, rather than audio styles which I seem to recall only worked for percussion?  One of the disadvantages of audio styles is timestretching, it only works 'ok' within a small tempo range.  Certainly the core 'meat and potato' rhythm sounds of bass, drums and guitar are really good in these Sample Creator styles - so I think they have sampled their own live instruments for these into custom voices and then sprinkled some built-in preset voices over for good measure. 

Might have to get some of these at some point!  The solo instruments they offer also sound nice, particularly the acoustic guitar and bright piano.

Simon

[keynote]

The Sample Creator audio styles are high quality, but I don't think they're that special when compared to Yamaha styles, audio or otherwise, in my opinion. Maybe the free style I received isn't as enhanced as the ones you pay for, perhaps. Plus, the very steep price is probably a dealbreaker for a lot of people. I'm going to wait to see what Yamaha will bring to the table when they release the Genos 2. I recently received a message from Chris Halon of Yamaha US reminding people of the upcoming NAMM trade show on April 13-15 at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, California. He seemed upbeat, so perhaps that will translate into a few surprises in the way of new gear. Any who, I wanted to post this relatively short song made using a Genos preset style. This isn't an audio style, but Yamaha's regular styles are actually very good to excellent on the Genos. This combines three different Flamenco styles using the OTS voices in a multi-track recording.

Spanish Flamenco Tune

All the best, Mike         

[rodrigo.b]

I also sent an Email asking for the free style. I'm waiting for the answer

[tyrosrick]

Keynote Mike: That Flamenco clip was EXTRAordinary in every way !!! Blown away!

[stkeys]

I know this is an old post but for anybody that is interested in purchasing from Samplecreator I wanted to warn you about my experience with them.

I originally contacted them for the free style some time ago and they responded, sent me the freebie and answered all my questions about their products. I was very interested in purchasing but the price made me wait hoping there would be a summer sale.
As that didn't happen I decided to try out the Golino Drum Pack 1 that came with styles I liked the sound of.
I paid the 99.99 Euro which came out at $111.37 on 22nd September ( last Friday ) I then sent them my Genos Instrument ID needed for them to process my order and sat back eagerly awaiting the download link.
During the order process I created an account and received a confirmation email with my account details and another email confirming my order saying it was being processed.

Because I had placed the order on a Friday and didn't receive any download link I thought maybe it was due to them not working on the weekend so I waited until the following Monday but when I had heard nothing from them and my online account still said processing I sent them an email with my Instrument ID again and asked them to confirm they had received it. Still I received no answer. ( yes I checked my spam folder )

I have so far sent them 3 emails to 2 different email addresses and had nothing back from them. The contact form on their website gives an error message when you click send so no joy there.

It's been 7 day's now since I placed the order and have not heard anything from them so I reluctantly decided to contact Paypal and setup a dispute claim. If it hasn't been resolved within 10 business day's Paypal will issue a full refund.

It's a shame it's come to this as I would have really liked to upgrade my Genos with some of Samplecreators products.
If they do send me the download link I'll edit this post and maybe share some feedback on the product.

Hope this post will prevent others from the hassles I have gone through or if anyone else has had a successful transaction with them in the last week or so I would love to hear about it.

Regards, to all.

[stkeys]

Update on the SampleCreator purchase.
I never did get any communication from these guy's after purchasing from them but I did get a full refund from Paypal, so for anyone thinking of buying from them think again and if you decide to take the chance, make sure you use Paypal.