Speaker set up help needed please

[Del]

Hi all you good people, I don't very often ask for help but I need some now.
I am thinking of upgrading my speaker system by buying a Genelec sub woofer 7050C and I need to connect this with my existing genelec speakers and my Tyros 5.
I have drawn a diagram to how I think it may work but I am unsure and your input would be very much appreciated.

Diagram -  https://app.box.com/s/5oyd795zi7avtqfpnszb7pw8if5t6d43


Thank You

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Del]

I have confirmed the answer and my drawing is correct

[overover]

I have confirmed the answer and my drawing is correct

Hi Del,

Yes, your drawing is correct. It is important that you use unbalanced cables from the Tyros5 to the Genelec 7050C subwoofer: 6.3 mm TS ("mono") phone plug > XLR male plug with 1 & 3 pins bridged. (You probably already used such cables with the Genelec 8020Ds.) From the subwoofer to the two 8020Ds you use normal microphone cables (XLR female > XLR male, balanced).


Best regards,
Chris

[Del]

Hi Chris
Thanks for responding, I have 2 x stereo (2 black rings around the plug) 6.3mm going into the Tyros and 1 x XLR male going into each 8020D, I don't know if they are balanced or unbalanced, what is the difference if I use these to go IN on the 7050?

thanks
Del

[overover]

Hi Chris
Thanks for responding, I have 2 x stereo (2 black rings around the plug) 6.3mm going into the Tyros and 1 x XLR male going into each 8020D, I don't know if they are balanced or unbalanced, what is the difference if I use these to go IN on the 7050?

thanks
Del

Hi Del,

The cable you described (6.3 mm TRS "stereo" phone plug > XLR male plug) is usually a Balanced cable, but also could be an Unbalanced one (if it is internally modified accordingly).

The easiest way to find out the type of wiring would be to use an ohmmeter or a continuity tester:

If the Ring and Sleeve contacts of the TRS plug are electrically connected, the cable is Unbalanced.

Unbalanced:
- XLR pin 2 > Tip of the TRS plug (signal)
- XLR pins 1 & 3 > Ring & Sleeve of the TRS plug (ground; can be bridged either in the XLR plug or in the TRS plug or in both)

Balanced:
- XLR pin 2 > Tip contact of the TRS plug (plus phase signal)
- XLR pin 3 > Ring contact of the TRS plug (minus phase signal)
- XLR pin 1 > Sleeve contact of the TRS plug (cable Shield; no signal)

Important: All Audio Outputs on Yamaha arranger keyboards are Unbalanced. This means that if you plug in a TRS plug, the Ring contact will not receive a signal (because this contact is not connected internally in the Tyros Output jacks) . However, a Balanced XLR Input on an active speaker or mixer expects TWO signals (plus phase signal and minus phase signal). Since the minus phase signal is not present, in most cases you will have a lower signal level than if you correctly use an Unbalanced cable (as described).In addition, there could be unwanted background noise/hum because the XLR pin 3 of the Speaker/Mixer Inputs expects a signal, however, as mentioned, the ring contact of the TRS plug is not connected internally at the Tyros.

If you don't have an ohmmeter/continuity tester, you can unscrew the XLR plug and see if pins 1 & 3 are bridged (shorted, "jumpered"). If you don't find a jumper here, you should also unscrew the TRS plug and check whether the Ring & Sleeve contacts are jumpered there.

If you are unsure, I recommend buying two new cables that are definitely unbalanced (TS plug > XLR male plug, as originally described).


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[Del]

Hi Chris
Thank you again for the information, the two cables I have are TOURTECH (Brand) Balanced cables they come out of the tyros 5 and connect straight into the Genelec active speaker XLR/Male.
I will buy two XLR f/m - XLR m to connect from the subwoofer 7050C to the Genelec 8020 and see how I go.
Thanks again for your help much appreciated


Del

[Del]

I have purchased today
2 x Male XLR to Jack Cable. Long Mono Jack lead. Unbalanced Van Damme Neutrik - Keyboard to Subwoofer
2 x Male XLR to F/Male XLR subwoofer to satellite speakers.
Thanks again Chris

Important: All Audio Outputs on Yamaha arranger keyboards are Unbalanced. This means that if you plug in a TRS plug, the Ring contact will not receive a signal (because this contact is not connected internally in the Tyros Output jacks) . However, a Balanced XLR Input on an active speaker or mixer expects TWO signals (plus phase signal and minus phase signal). Since the minus phase signal is not present, in most cases you will have a lower signal level than if you correctly use an Unbalanced cable (as described).In addition, there could be unwanted background noise/hum because the XLR pin 3 of the Speaker/Mixer Inputs expects a signal, however, as mentioned, the ring contact of the TRS plug is not connected internally at the Tyros.

Hopefully this will disperse any Hum and background noises

[overover]

I have purchased today
2 x Male XLR to Jack Cable. Long Mono Jack lead. Unbalanced Van Damme Neutrik - Keyboard to Subwoofer
2 x Male XLR to F/Male XLR subwoofer to satellite speakers.
Thanks again Chris

Hopefully this will disperse any Hum and background noises

Hi Del,

Unbalanced cables should be as short as possible or, in other words, not significantly longer than necessary. The reason is that Unbalanced cables are much more sensitive to hum and other noise interference than Balanced cables. With the latter, this interference is largely eliminated by the double signal routing (plus phase and minus phase signals).

To minimize ground loop problems, it is recommended that all devices (keyboard, subwoofer and satellite speakers) be connected to the same mains circuit. It is also very important that Unbalanced cables are not routed near mains adapters or parallel to mains cables over a longer distance (to avoid the hum interference mentioned).

If the cables from the Tyros to the subwoofer have to be very long (e.g. longer than 3 - 5 m), I recommend connecting a high-quality, active DI box, e.g. the "Palmer PAN 4A" model. From the Tyros you then go to the DI box with two Unbalanced cables that are as short as possible (max. 1 m) and from there with Balanced cables to the subwoofer and from there to the satellite speakers. (With Balanced cables, the length doesn't play a major role, so they can be much longer than actually needed.)


Best regards,
Chris

[Del]

I have ordered 3m cables but after reading your post I have contacted the company and asked if they can supply 2m cables.
I do not have any humming or noise at the moment, as I don't have the Subwoofer yet, I just want to be prepared so when I do get the subwoofer 

[Del]

Laid out £749 for the Genelec 7050C Subwoofer today hopefully will get it by Friday should compliment my Genelec 8020D's perfectly, and to Mikef I couldn't resist LoL so you were right I really did spend over budget, but it will be worth it when I get the next yamamha flagship will not need the speakers that normally come with the keyboard 

[mikf]

Laid out £749 for the Genelec 7050C Subwoofer today hopefully will get it by Friday should compliment my Genelec 8020D's perfectly, and to Mikef I couldn't resist LoL so you were right I really did spend over budget, but it will be worth it when I get the next yamamha flagship will not need the speakers that normally come with the keyboard 

I could say 'I told you so' but it's annoying when people say 'I told you so' so I won't say 'I told you so ' even though 'I told you so'.
Mike

[Del]

LOL Mikef

[travlin-easy]

LOL