New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[Jeff Hollande]

Herewith I would like to thank Danny and John for their personal feedback.

The UK and the Benelux ( Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg ) Event prices seem all to be equal for the time being ( all over Europe approx. the same pricing, maybe ? ).

Best regards, JH

[john smies]

Hi everyone,

Considering the interest and comparisons between ketron and yamaha and the fact that I have recently purchased and received my event I thought it wise to start a new thread on the subject overhere. Hope this meets with appreciation.

regards
John Smies

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,65861.0.html

[Jeff Hollande]

Good morning Sokratis :

Today I have heard from a Dutch colleague, who bought a brand new Event last week, the Event's O.S. seems to be rather complicated, even after 3 years Ketron's SD experience.
Being one of the Event's software developers and being a Genos' owner simultaneously, I would be very grateful to let us know your impressions after comparing Yamaha's and Ketron's O.S. use.

Your comments would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much. 
Best regards, JH

[ton37]

Mmm.. You actually ask about the known way, what do you think yourself? Everyone understands that a different OS requires a new investment from you to get to know it, that makes perfect sense. Enough information can be found on inet!! You also have similar with a new TV or a mobile phone: Android or IOS, or a car: you name it. Of course you can ask someone who has such a system. He could answer: Oh, it's not too bad. Do you make your decision based on that 'one personal' opinion? The core is: ultimately you have to decide for yourself and investigate whether you want to make a choice based on your own findings, sometimes despite what others think.   

[Jeff Hollande]

Well, the problem is : I have to find out myself how a new O.S. works after I have bought the new arranger, not earlier, IMHO.

There is only one solution for me : ask other people how they are experiencing the change.

I agree others ' impressions do not always answer all questions but they might be very helpful.

JH

[BogdanH]

... a different OS requires a new investment from you to get to know it...

-straight to the point. We shouldn't expect different brands to have similar OS or workflow -if that would be the case, then there would be no progress.

From info I gathered so far, Yamaha is the easiest to be used and that's because two reasons: very good user interface and because it has quite limited options (the less options we have, the less confusion there is). And many times, not even those are actually used... we prefer to be in a "comfort zone", so to speak: select style (or find on web), adjust it a bit, make few settings in mixer and start playing. That is, many never created a style from scratch (which is main attribute of "arranger" keyboard) or tried to create new voice. That's ok. Many of us just enjoy playing music. And if that's the case, there's no reason to switch the brand.

But those, who wish to be more creative, they do hit on limitations and start to look elsewhere. It's like buying car: you're happy with Fiat, but at some point you realize you need big family SUV, which Fiat doesn't make -so you check other brands who make what you need.
And that's why we say there's no "the best" keyboard -because it depends on what each of us needs.
Buying more expensive keyboard or switching to "better" brand won't automatically make our playing better -it will only become better if we're ready to learn how to use additional features.

Just my 2cents,
Bogdan

[ton37]

I agree with you. I suppose the majority of Genos/SX/PSR owners don't like complicated situations. Otherwise, just to stick with the brand, they might have bought a Yamaha Montage/Kronos. In other words: ready-made, user-friendly and a known system will prevail (plug and play; out of the box) and not illogical if a good keyboard is delivered. A Ketron Event leans more to a Yamaha Montage, a lot of tweaking and twirling functions. If those target musicians wants to move away from the brand (Genos/SX), it will be more towards Korg PA5x than towards Ketron Event. I actually expect that the new Yamaha will be more different (also with regard to the operating system) than the transitions between the various models. Even more than the transition between the Tyros 5 and the Genos. So there will be quite a learning curve in that as well. If not... it will be Genos 1,5 

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Ton and Bogdan :

I fully agree with all your arguments but, being a Yamaha keyboard player for more than 22 years, I have never been disappointed.   
I am not convinced why I should go for another brand despite all pros and cons.
An additional arranger might be an answer but ... lack of room is a pressing problem.

JH

[ton37]

Jeff, if you read the posts well, it never says you have to buy another brand! Even if you are not satisfied with the one you have, it is your own personal decision to do what you want to do. That's well pointed out in my (and allow me: Bogdans) post...

[Danny1972]

being a Yamaha keyboard player for more than 22 years, I have never been disappointed.   

I am not convinced why I should go for another brand despite all pros and cons.

You've answered your own question when you said "I have never been disappointed", so I think you should absolutely stick with Yamaha, and why not? They are superb instruments.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

After 22 pages of this thread, called,  New TOTL Arranger from Ketron, plse read my personal, final conclusion, as follows.

I will wait for Yamaha's answer before comparing apples and pears.
I do respect and congratulate ( very sincerely ) all colleages of this forum whatever their choice may be.
Last but not least, from the bottem of my heart, I wish all players a lot of luck, fun and joy with their present or future choice.
It is my personal intention and conviction to stick with Yamaha.

Herewith this subject is closed for me to avoid possible repetitions.


Best regards, JH

[Danny1972]

Very nice words Jeff and thank you

It's great you made a choice and stuck with it. I do hope Yamaha puts out something soon, it would be very strange if they didn't but I'm sure they will.

Don't stop posting your comments on this subject thread though, I do enjoying reading everybody's comments including yours, I am sure there's more feedback to give regarding Event or any other non-Yamaha board. Maybe you meant you didn't want to comment anymore about you thinking of getting an Event (if that was ever your intention), I don't know as I haven't read every single page.

You can now start to think about the next Genos and the great new things that will come with it!

[Lee Batchelor]

I agree with Danny. Jeff, your input is always welcome, as is everyone else's. The main purpose of this forum is to discuss all things "Genos" but most of the questions and issues have been addressed, so a major side chain discussion on what's to come is healthy - even at 22+ pages 🤣.

Soon, the new Genos will be released and some of us will own one and can start a whole new thread about said keyboard. I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on the current subject. It's healthy because in the end, we all have the same goal, and that's to make music.

[maartenb]

I actually expect that the new Yamaha will be more different (also with regard to the operating system) than the transitions between the various models. Even more than the transition between the Tyros 5 and the Genos. So there will be quite a learning curve in that as well.

Let's speculate.

I would be very surprised if the Genos 2 has a different OS. As far as I know, all keyboard models in the venerable Tyros series have the same OS and user interface. The Genos is the first keyboard model after ten years to have a completely different OS (and user interface). I believe that is also (one of?) the reason(s) why the model name was changed from Tyros to Genos.

Building user interfaces take a lot of development effort. Idem for implementing a new OS. I believe this is the reason why the Genos came four years after Tyros 5*, while all the Tyroses had a three year release pattern (with the exception of two years between Tyros 3 and Tyros 4). So Yamaha would be throwing away money if they change the OS and user interface again after just one model. That's why I believe the next keyboard will be called Genos 2.

I think there's no technical reason to change CPU architecture and OS, so I expect those to be the same for Genos 2. And the user interface will still be touch oriented, so no reason to completely overhaul the current well-working UI.

So sure, there will be changes, but I expect that owners of Genos will quickly feel at home with a successor.


Maarten

*) Also because the Genos has a new hardware architecture (sound chip, memory) compared to the Tyros series

[BogdanH]

...The Genos is the first keyboard model after ten years to have a completely different OS (and user interface).
...

-kindly disagree Maarten.

My opinion... We should differentiate between OS and User Interface (UI). And as far I can tell, OS hasn't changed in last 15 years. Yes, new options/features have been added (depending on hardware capability), but that doesn't make new OS. It's similar as with Windows7 and Windows11 -same OS.
So, why was new name (Genos) chosen? We can only guess... could be marketing move, could be because it was first Yamaha with touch screen, because next Tyros would be Tyros 6 (japanese traditionally avoid number 6), because it had totally different design than Tyros before, etc.
But then, we don't really care about OS.. we care about user friendly UI (and Yamaha has it) and about options & features -and here's a lot of room for improvement. It's hard to imagine that all that can be made by simply adding them to existing OS. For example, importing wav samples directly, so we could create voices on keyboard. That would be totally new concept for Yamaha and would probably require new OS.. because it would require too many changes and adaptations in existing OS. And that's just one example! At some point, it's just better to start from scratch.

PS: just saw Jeff's comment -and fully agree!

Just my opinion,
Bogdan

[soundphase]

why was new name (Genos) chosen

A new CPU generation (the same as Montage). PJD is the expert.
I think this new generation opens far more doors. (more "channels" with other specific processors, more computation power ...)

I would not be surprise if some AI appears to dynamically choose/change samples. (but perhaps it's too early) => new generation of sounds.

[Danny1972]

Hi :

If the Genos2 is just an extensive Genos' update instead of a real upgrade most customers would be very surprised and perhaps really disappointed.
IMHO most Yamaha fans, after 6 years time, are expecting a complete new high end arranger that will beat all competition. 

JH

Yes I agree, the longer Yamaha leave it the bigger the expectations will be and it's only natural to think that especially if you look at their past trajectories between the Tyros range.

I wished Yamaha would at least suggest that something new is arriving without going into the nitty gritty (although that would be great too lol), but I also understand they still need to sell the existing Genos' as well so it's a catch 22 for them I guess.

But if there is one thing I have been annoyed with Yamaha in the past though has been when I purchased the T3 there was no inkling that a T4 was on the horizon and sure enough 6 months later there was and that did a annoy me a little as I wasn't in a position to upgrade straight away back then. A similar thing happened when I got my T4 where nearly a year later the T5 came along although this time around I wasn't so annoyed because I didn't think there was too much difference sonically between the T4 and T5 as much as there were between the T3 and T4.

[ton37]

Mmm..I would like to point out that we forgot that there is a a forum 'the next Yamaha keyboard' as it has nothing to do with Ketron?? Copy and paste, pls. Moderator if it is possible??

[soundphase]

And here, we are in "Genos general" folder ....

[ton37]

Oh Oh Yes, you are right...  Once I hope we get 1 folder for 'non Yamaha' issues.. pls ... OK, I will dream on 

[BogdanH]

hi everyone,
I know that this is Genos section and that some are getting tired reading about Korg or Ketron, but I think it's good for everyone to be informed.
Here's a the latest relative short video about Ketron, which answers some questions.

Bogdan

[soundphase]

hi everyone,
I know that this is Genos section and that some are getting tired reading about Korg or Ketron, but I think it's good for everyone to be informed.
Here's a the latest relative short video about Ketron, which answers some questions.

Bogdan

I also like information about other brands in threads, but I also like to let people talk about the Genos, and comparisons to the Genos in a thread initiated to discuss other hardware. Some disgressions can't be prevented.

[ton37]

hi everyone,
I know that this is Genos section and that some are getting tired reading about Korg or Ketron, but I think it's good for everyone to be informed.
Here's a the latest relative short video about Ketron, which answers some questions.

Bogdan

That's about the SD90 module ... not the Event ..

[Danny1972]

Hi :

Since competition starts to be more and more active in the market now, it would be wonderful if Yamaha should start to tell the entire arranger world a little bit about their new Genos' successor plans.
Even if this news is just a tip of the iceberg ...

On the other hand I am suspecting Yamaha are obliged to sell their present Genos' stock first.
Not too late yet ?

JH

Yes it's pretty much what I said in a round about way. I would like to see ANY updates but I don't know if we'll see it, not officially anyway. The two biggest tale tail signs usually starts from leaks, usually a leaked image followed by eventually seeing dealers not stocking the Genos anymore as new, in exactly the same way that happened with the Pa4x.

Someone out there somewhere certainly know's something we don't and are just not able to tell us !!! grrrrrrrrrrrrr!!

[Christophermoment]

hi everyone,
I know that this is Genos section and that some are getting tired reading about Korg or Ketron, but I think it's good for everyone to be informed.
Here's a the latest relative short video about Ketron, which answers some questions.

Bogdan

Well that answered all my questions, very informative and up to date. Here's another product that some people might be interested in, the sound quality is outstanding. Never heard anything as realistic as this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnaylfxGTnY

[ton37]

LOL

[Ryszard Bieszczad]

Polish presentation of Ketron Event in a music store
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-8CFwSC2m8
Ryszard

[Lee Batchelor]

Nice demo. Too bad we can't see the display on the big screen due to the guys head in the way. If they're going to demo a keyboard, they really need to think about the world audience, not just the few people in the store.

[ton37]

OK, bad video presentation . Oh boy, all those people with their smartphones, it seems a new human race (the seventh). Allthought I like the enthousiame of the keyboardist and the sound is very, very good!!

[Danny1972]

I can't wait for Tony at Bonners to do a demo, I think he will really smash it with his demo and playing abilities.