New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[usaraiya]

Mike,

I got my EVENT from AJ last week. I eagerly awaited its arrival as the demos were fabulous, and the riffs that followed the chords were intriguing.
Alas, my fascination was short-lived. I was disappointed, so I sent it back today and got stuck with a 20% restocking fee.

There are no multi-pads while Genos & PA5X have 4. The factory styles & sounds are much less than the other 2 KBs. The riffs that follow the chords are in very few styles, they are recorded in the styles, like the Sax & Harmonica in 2 different styles I found.
Although you could save 4096 registration in the machine, accessing them is a major problem; data wheel browsing, selection by a number, or scrolling through pages were the cumbersome options.

There are two main voices are selectable easily by buttons; other voices are there, but selecting them is not quick.
There are three intros & 4 endings, and breaks; selecting them on the fly could be done only through the touch screen by selecting the Intro/Ending button, which brings up the screen buttons that has to be kept on screen for it to be used.

The real voices, real bass, and real everything are fabulous; nowhere else have I found this feature.
The learning curve to master the touch screen functions is likely to be not short, as there are hundreds of functions and customizations available, but I cannot see them being done on stage, live or even in a studio unless one spends enough time to program your set completely in the studio first.

So, please don't take my word for it as I am a hobbyist, and a professional review would really be valuable & helpful from a stage artist.
It appeared very complex for someone like me who did not want to spend time diving deep into the machine, but would like to enjoy playing it quickly.
Hopefully, the upcoming Yamaha flagship arranger would do the trick most adequately, and I will be waiting for it with bated breath.
The EVENT would be the ultimate KB for specific musicians, but not for me. Again, it boils down to what works for you!

Uday

[rikkisbears]

Hi Uday, so did you end up selling your PA5x? Sorry to hear Event didn't work out for you.  No doubt it suits some people better than it does others. The operating system is totally different to Korg and Yamaha.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Friends :

IMHO !

If one is used to have a Yamaha, a Korg or a Ketron high end arranger keyboard ( for many years ! ) it is not easy, even hard to go for another brand.
We all know the reasons why.

If one is tempted to buy another brand, it might be partially based on dissatisfaction and/or emotional preferences / impulses.

In this case, it might be a lot better to wait for the new Yamaha high end arranger, compare the advantages and disadvantages of all 3 new arrangers and then make a final, wise decision. 

Adding an other arranger is a complete different approach / story.

Best wishes, JH

[AndrewKeyz]

Pretty hefty having to part with a 20% restocking fee after just a week.

This is about how much I lost against my Pa5X after 9 months.

[soundphase]

Mike,

I got my EVENT from AJ last week. I eagerly awaited its arrival as the demos were fabulous, and the riffs that followed the chords were intriguing.
Alas, my fascination was short-lived. I was disappointed, so I sent it back today and got stuck with a 20% restocking fee.

There are no multi-pads while Genos & PA5X have 4. The factory styles & sounds are much less than the other 2 KBs. The riffs that follow the chords are in very few styles, they are recorded in the styles, like the Sax & Harmonica in 2 different styles I found.
Although you could save 4096 registration in the machine, accessing them is a major problem; data wheel browsing, selection by a number, or scrolling through pages were the cumbersome options.

There are two main voices are selectable easily by buttons; other voices are there, but selecting them is not quick.
There are three intros & 4 endings, and breaks; selecting them on the fly could be done only through the touch screen by selecting the Intro/Ending button, which brings up the screen buttons that has to be kept on screen for it to be used.

The real voices, real bass, and real everything are fabulous; nowhere else have I found this feature.
The learning curve to master the touch screen functions is likely to be not short, as there are hundreds of functions and customizations available, but I cannot see them being done on stage, live or even in a studio unless one spends enough time to program your set completely in the studio first.

So, please don't take my word for it as I am a hobbyist, and a professional review would really be valuable & helpful from stage artist.
It appeared very complex for someone like me who did not want to spend time diving deep into the machine, but would like to enjoy playing it quickly.
Hopefully, the upcoming Yamaha flagship arranger would do the trick most adequately, and I will be waiting for it with bated breath.
The EVENT would be the ultimate KB for specific musicians, but not for me. Again, it boils down to what works for you!

Uday

I would like to hear "real voices" in solo mode.
Quite all Event demos I hear extensively use styles (good styles), and it's difficult to judge solo voices quality.
Please, if it's possible for you to record something. Thank you very much in advance.
Regards
Soundphase
Soundphase

[usaraiya]

@Rikki,

Yes, I did keep the PA5X and am loving it even more now. The monthly webinars from Korg UK(Adam & Luke), and the cost free soundpacks/styles from Korg UK are fantastic( 2 so far).

@Soundphase,

Sorry, I already sent the Event back yesterday, so I cannot record the sounds for you.

Uday

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Uday :

I feel very sorry to hear your brand new Event's experience. 
It must have been a hard lesson to you and to all of us, IMO.

All the best, JH

[keynote]

Thank you for your valuable input, Uday. As we all know, the Event is not cheap. But a staggering 20% restocking fee is outrageous, especially since you only had it a few days, so it was still brand spanking new basically. I imagine AJ probably gets a big chunk of the restocking fee, so he's ecstatic, needless to say. But the real bummer, AJ will turn around and sell it as new if there are no visible marks of any kind. I mentioned in a previous post about Frank from AudioProCT in Connecticut, USA. His price for the Event is $5,299 and of course you have like an 8.5% sales tax in Connecticut, so you end up with a total of $5,749, and he might charge shipping which could be another $200 or so. Back when the Genos was first released, Frank quoted me a price of $4,200 for the Genos shipped to my door. Boy, how times have changed. Now even Yamaha is pretty much getting $6,000 for the Genos at most if not all online retail stores. And I imagine the Genos2 will take that up a notch or two when it's finally released. Although, Yamaha usually has an introductory offer on their new keyboard product releases, and we can only hope that's true for the Genos2. That's another reason I like to buy at a brick & mortar store like Guitar Center, where I can get a full refund if things don't work out. In conclusion, no Event for me. 👍 Another thing I'm noticing about the Event is even though the audio sampled voices i.e. Bass, Guitar, Drums are par excellence, the actual midi triggered voices leave something to be desired the more I hear the Event demos. For instance, the Event Tenor Sax is nothing to write home about, for one. Maybe there is more than one, but the one I heard sounded weak and thin. And those midi-triggered voices/patches don't sit well in the mix when playing along with the audio styles. The audio sampled voices drone out the other voices, so I suspect a lot of tweaking would probably be necessary to get them to sound right with the audio styles. To each his own. Some people might go gaga over the Event, and more power to them. Some keyboardists don't mind deep menu-diving, and if that's the case, the Event won't disappoint. 

All the best, Mike

[rikkisbears]

@Rikki,

Yes, I did keep the PA5X and am loving it even more now. The monthly webinars from Korg UK(Adam & Luke), and the cost free soundpacks/styles from Korg UK are fantastic( 2 so far).


Uday

Hi Uday, thought for an awful moment you'd sold it to buy the Event 😀. Yes , another webinar, missed it again, at least I can watch the replay, plus we're slowly getting closer to the update 😀 .I must check into those soundpacks, forgot all about it. Obviously they're available to rest of the world, not just the UK as you're obviously in the USA.

So sorry it ended such an expensive exercise for you with the Ketron, at least you tried it and now you know it's not for you.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Stick with Genos, it is quality and as Jeff says wait for it's successor.
Dig deep into the Genos effects and is surprising what you get
This has to be the year

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi John :

Right, I am going to wait for the Genos' successor. IMO it is the best choice for a Yamaha customer.

When it will be available in the market ( at the end of 2023 or early 2024 ? ), I am going to wait for at least 6 months ( after reading reactions of members here ) before I will decide whether or not I am going to sell my beloved Tyros4 yet and replace it by the Genos' successor.

It is not my intention to go for another brand. Why should I kill a winning horse ? Yamaha NEVER let me down.

Best wishes, JH

[EileenL]

Here Here I feel the same way about Yamaha. You can't beat it.

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Eileen.

We are unlikely to see any market in Canada for the Event because there doesn't seem to be any physical dealers. The PA5X is intriguing but you can bet your last dollar (pound in your case 🤣) that Yamaha has been listening to Genos users and will fill in the blanks for us.

I'll wait for Genos 2. And like Jeff, I'll wait a while before making the purchase, just to see what the feedback is like. Besides, I'll have no choice but to wait at least three months because I'm a Canadian. We don't count when it comes to Yamaha's distribution model. We're always last and yet we produce some of the world's best performers. Go figure...

[rphillipchuk]

Besides, I'll have no choice but to wait at least three months because I'm a Canadian. We don't count when it comes to Yamaha's distribution model. We're always last and yet we produce some of the world's best performers. Go figure...

+100000000

[Danny1972]

I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the big 3, people are going to have their favourites and that is absolutely fine. People have many reasons why they change or stick with what they know, you can make a good case for all 3 keyboards and they would all be good reasons. If there is to be a follow up to the Genos, of course it's going to be outstanding, I can't see how it wouldn't be. It's great for us keyboard enthusiasts that we'll get to see yet another new arranger keyboard sometime soon, hopefully this year. It always keeps things exciting.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
We will or may have an indication when Namm arives in April.
Lots of Yamaha tech being released.
If not then i would assume at a percentage of 100 that Late October we will have Genos 3.
I think it is fair to say it is a evens bet

[AndrewKeyz]

----
Oh the Nord Grand is the only one that doesn't use the standard clacky Fatar keys, and the piano samples are *fantastic*. However, still not a wooden key. If you're looking for a better key feel and a better piano sound than the P515 (which is middling), try the CP88. I would've suggested one of the new wooden key Casios (PXS5000-7000), but oddly, they only offer USB B midi out, not standard 5 pin, rendering them difficult to use as a master KB.

One of my customers tried slaving a PSRsx900 from a Casio PXS1000... and weirdly it *worked* using a custom USB B to B cable. But it's not supposed to! :p
Baffling decision to leave out 5 pin midi, but *wow* are they ever compact and light. Wood/resin hybrid 88 keys weighs 25 lbs *with* built in speakers... the next lightest with built in speakers is the P515 which comes in a 49.5lbs.

If sound is more important than the key action, I'd go with the Nord Grand. If key action is most important I'd go with the CP88. If you want good key action (not as good as the Yamahas but superior to everyone else) and lightweight portability? Try one of the PXS5000/6000/7000. Crazy light. But you'll need to buy a USB B to B cable if you want to run a master/slave setup on your Genos.

Mark

Big shout out to Mark. Thank you for the suggestions!   

I received the Yamaha CP88 today as part of the Korg Pa5X trade in (I have some credit still left and sort of undecided what to do with it, have agreed on a MP11se with Bonners at the moment, available later in the year again but will see)

I am very impressed with the CP88! It sounds great, plays great and operates so well! It's so much better than the Roland RD2000 in my opinion. That one is clearly somewhat sluggish in comparison.

In addition, the Yamaha has superb build quality.

Together with the Genos (and whatever Yamaha comes up with next) this is going to be a superb setup I think. Not sure I still need that Kawai! Will see.

Yamaha doesn't seem to let me down! 

[kiplis]

Make's me a bit wonder (from an other site)

"Ketron Event two and a half months dj life in perfect condition with purchase invoice and original packaging
Selling due to non-use I can ship it €3950 not negotiable"

[Jeff Hollande]

This is the second Event that had to go. 
What is the problem ?
JH

[rikkisbears]

This is the second Event that had to go. 
What is the problem ?
JH

Sadly, maybe not up expectation.

[Lee Batchelor]

Sadly, maybe not up expectation.

I wonder that two. Every demo I've seen has been through YouTube. Even with top quality speakers, YouTube can sound mediocre due to their compression modes. Once these guys got the Event home, it may have sounded only marginally better.

I heard that one big difference between the Tyros 5 and Genos is that Yamaha redesigned the Genos sound processor. That's why it sounds more alive than the T5. Perhaps Ketron cheaped out on the sound processor.

[Jeff Hollande]

The Event might be more complicated in use than expected ? 
Only time will tell, I guess.
JH

[Amwilburn]

Andrew, you are most welcome!

Since you did end up with the cp88, make sure you download the latest firmware... it includes both a Bosendorfer and a Steinway sample. Both of which sound really great! Detailed and expressive.

Mark

[Sokratis1974]

Make's me a bit wonder (from an other site)

"Ketron Event two and a half months dj life in perfect condition with purchase invoice and original packaging
Selling due to non-use I can ship it €3950 not negotiable"

Hi. I also saw this ad which was published in two Ketron Facebook groups. If I remember correctly (because he probably deleted them) there was an Italian guy who said in his description that he was selling it to buy the Pa5x 76. When people started asking him in the comments why he was selling it or if he had a problem, he said that he had no problem. Simple curiosity. So, I will speak to you as always as a person who is still working with Genos and preparing the Event for work. I personally cannot know what everyone is thinking or how they are thinking when they buy something. But as a professional musician which is my main job, I can tell you that I too have been in this position, (much earlier) buying an instrument which I finally realized was not for me, so I sold it in two months. It was a Korg Pa1x, and if I remember correctly, it was 2003. But the problem then was different. I don't know how many of you know that I'm Greek man and I live in the Greek island (Crete), so it wasn't easy to try an instrument because I had to travel by plane 35 minutes, or 10 hours by boat, to go to Athens where the Korg representative is located.
So, when I bought Genos in the early spring of 2018, I traveled to Athens specifically for this purpose. To see and explore Genos, to decide before the buying. Of course, I didn't regret it.
So, I recommend the same to everyone. Don't buy anything before trying it and also don't buy something if you don't need it. If the instrument you have satisfies you, and can meet all your needs, stay where you are. But when you want to buy something new you have to think about it very carefully and reflect what you want from the instrument in question.
Especially when someone has been working with Yamaha arrangers for years (like everyone here) and suddenly thinks of switching to another company, or even combining an instrument from another company with his Yamaha. I must be sure of the reason. What or what are the positive elements that I found in this instrument?
What will it offer me more than what I have?
I think if we don't do that then we just become consumers.
For someone to buy such an expensive instrument like the Event because they happened to listen to some demos on YouTube I don't think it's a good idea. Of course, there is also the counterargument, that you cannot have a complete opinion of an instrument within a few hours of trying it at an exhibition. Right. But what you will get from this test is crucial in making a decision because, you see many things that are not visible in a demo. You see and touch the hardware, the keys, browse through its software, see how the operating mode is set up, and get a picture that can't exist unless you see it up close.
I also have a friend who a few months after buying the Genos, sold it and bought the Pa4x. So, what does this mean that Genos is a bad instrument? Of course not, just for some reasons of his own it wasn't what he wanted.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I cannot fault the Genos and the next one is surely worth the wait. (5 years now) Something will happen for sure.
I do not like the sound of the Korg PAX5 and too many if's and but's attached to the Ketron
"Will they spill the beans at this years NAMM??



[attachment unavailable]

[Tommy 73]

I cannot fault the Genos and the next one is surely worth the wait. (5 years now) Something will happen for sure.
I do not like the sound of the Korg PAX5 and too many if's and but's attached to the Ketron
"Will they spill the beans at this years NAMM??

I would imagine Yamaha have been paying special attention to Korg's disastrous PA5X launch, where they have left themselves wide open to criticism, and one would think Yamaha will most certainly not want a repeat of that in the hope of scooping up many disgruntled PA5X owners like me with a Genos replacement...

So, if we need to wait a little longer for stellar product to hit the ground running (unlike Korg) from Yamaha, that will be fine by me....

[BogdanH]

Very well summarized Sokratis -one can't repeat these things often enough.

Most here are hobby musicians and too many times we (wish to) buy new keyboard just to have new toy to play with. But if we don't know why exactly we need new keyboard, disappointment usually follows. What I'm saying is, someone can be happier with PSR-SX600 than someone with Genos. Not because PSR-SX600 would be better, but because he made right decision for him. Yes, Genos has "this and that", but who cares if "this and that" is later never used. When buying, we shouldn't look for "the best" keyboard... we should concentrate on things that matter to each one individually.

Having SX700 for few years now (and two Yamaha's before), I know quite well what I like, what I'm missing, what I wish to be better and what I need. If I find such keyboard and I can afford it, I'll buy it -doesn't matter who makes it.
Finding objective information is not easy... because nobody talks about limitations and explains them (as practical consequences). Yes, if lucky, we can tryout keyboard for few minutes in local store. But let's be frank, the only thing we can check is keybed and panel buttons -and that's it. There's not enough time to get an impression of style & voices management, style & voice creation, connectivity flexibility, recording options, etc.
And then, there are "little things" that we many times don't even notice. For example, on Ketron Event, wav sample length is limited to 6 seconds, which in my opinion, is extremely short. I don't know, maybe long sustain is solved differently on Event, but nobody talks about that. Ok, I'm not some pianist, and so 6sec is probably not an issue for me... but it's an 5000€ keyboard, where piano (or any voice) is expected to be flawless -it's simply assumed at that price. That is, Event might be excellent keyboard for me, but how can I know that, if nobody honestly talks about it's limitations and workarounds?

I think above is the main reason why we tend to stick with brand we have... we just try to avoid bad surprises (especially at high priced keyboards). On the other hand, by doing that way, we maybe miss having "the perfect" keyboard 

Bogdan

[kiplis]

And yet, dealers are selling keyboards by saying; "Preorder now, and you can have your new keyboard in few months"....  How to test and evaluate?

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

This is why i think that a new Genos is putting the wind up them

[AndrewKeyz]

Andrew, you are most welcome!

Since you did end up with the cp88, make sure you download the latest firmware... it includes both a Bosendorfer and a Steinway sample. Both of which sound really great! Detailed and expressive.

Mark

My CP88 came with 1.5 firmware so has all the updates from what I can see. Good knowing it's not a model that's been lying in a shop for years and years. Had no idea the Hamburg was a Steinway though. It does sound great. A bit more character than the CFX. The U1 and Felt piano are great too. And nice having the likes of the C7 and a few C3s in there also. Don't know if we are going to get any further updates, maybe it's all that can be done I guess. Maybe a Fazioli is possible?

I end up improvving for 30-40 minutes with different piano sounds at a time.

So, so far it's been excellent. 

but that £1000+ RRP on top of what I paid/exchanged. Wow, what a difference.