New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[Lee Batchelor]

Bogdan, it's very common on these forums for people to drift off topic a bit. I think it's healthy and thank you for the excellent clarification of those audio terms. We're one giant group and even though we disagree and point fingers the odd time, when all is said and done, we're a Genos family. If we were all in a giant convention center having a beverage and meal together, most of the discussions would be centered around the Genos but there would be a lot of side drifting about other things. Your input is valuable and welcome.

Interesting how you mentioned about human hearing topping out around 16kHz. I've been an amateur speaker designer for 45 years. I've studied the designs of the larger producers, one of which was Altec Lansing. Anyone who has been to a movie theater has likely listened to a movie through a medium to large Altec "Voice of the Theater" (VOTT) sound system. Their speakers are still used in several theaters around the world. To your point, their larger systems had an F3 of 17.5kHz, their theory being that most humans can't hear much past that frequency as adults. Altec came up with that number in the 1950s. For those who don't know what F3 stands for, it is the highest frequency a speaker system can produce before that frequency drops off by -3dB. Hence, the coined term, F3. Interesting! You're right on the money!!

I own a mint pair of VOTT A-7-800 speakers. I bought them in 1973. I've had the tweeter diaphragms restored and one bass driver has a slight rub in the voice coil but they still sound great. I use them in my home theater, along with two new subs of my own design. They take the heavy lifting off the older Altec bass drivers.

Once again, sorry to the OP for drifting way..........off topic 😀.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

Apparently in the past, Ketron had bugs with their Audya 5's software they never could resolve.
I don't have any further information what was wrong.
Was it just a rumour or true ?

The new Event seems to be equipped with a complete new OS.

Best regards, JH

[BogdanH]

Hello Jeff,
I don't have much knowledge, if any, about Ketron -simply because it's above my budget limit. And my guess would be, that's the case for many other Yamaha owners. And when we check on Youtube, it's hard to find non-biased (non-paid) reviews.

A while back I stumbled on "Tiho" Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Tiho2012/videos
If you look at his older content, you can see that he owned many TOTL keyboards, including Genos. So he might be a valuable source (Ketron vs Genos) from first hand experience. Btw. most of his videos are also in english language.

I just thought, some of us (Yamaha owners) would be interested to know "what's Ketron about". Speaking for me, I follow Ketron just to be informed, as I'm always interested on innovations.

@Lee Batchelor
Of course I remember Altec Lansing... it was (still is?) synonymo for high quality sound. I never had any Altec, though.

[keynote]

Mike,

Do you have definite release information for Genos 2 soon, or like all of us, hoping/guessing?


Uday

Hi, Uday. I don't have any particular release date information to give you. That said, I live not far from the Yamaha US Music Division headquarters in Buena Park, CA. I called there recently to order parts and everyone I've spoken to seems really friendly and happy and even exhilarated. Perhaps that means something big is about to happen? When you've got a blockbuster product in the works people tend to be optimistic and even jovial because they know people will be in for a real treat. So if I'm reading the situation correctly Genos2 could be forthcoming soon but perhaps not until the 2023 holiday season since Yamaha and other vendors are probably a couple of years behind schedule as a result of the global pandemic and the supply chain/chip crisis. So, as you say, it's just speculation at this point. Somebody at Yamaha knows the real skinny but I think Yamaha Japan made every employee sign a non-disclosure agreement to keep everything sealed up and tight-lipped. But if anyone from Yamaha is listening in and wants to provide an update we're all ears. Uh Huh, I didn't think so. 

All the best,

Mike 

[keynote]

Here is a new demo from the Ketron Event. It's a very nice Flugel Horn. Note: The Genos also has a superb Flugel Horn as we all know. Cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_MbeQvpFU

Here's a Country Waltz style with an ac. Piano played by one of Ketron's employee musicians, I reckon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3deAuYNvjk

Best,

Mike

[mikf]

These demos sound very good. It's not possible from just a demo to know the detail of the keyboard performance, —  things like ease of use, depth of features, possible OS glitches — but certainly the the voices and styles seem outstanding.
Mike

[usaraiya]

Another great demo of breathy Sax sounds from Ketron Event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE1G7Gfz_Ww

[Lee Batchelor]

Another great demo of breathy Sax sounds from Ketron Event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE1G7Gfz_Ww

This video has been removed. Anyone else able to see it?

[keynote]

Interesting! I looked for the video online and couldn't find it. What would make AJ remove the uploaded file? I guess some people heard it before it was yanked and supposedly it sounded great. Did anyone that listened to it before it was deleted notice any anomaly in the recording? If that's the case, maybe AJ decided to redo it. It's the weekend so maybe he was stretched for time and had other commitments. Or it could be that Ketron Italy told him to slow down and let them trickle out more slowly. FWIW, most keyboard manufacturers i.e. the Big Three, Casio, Kurzweil, Nord, etc., when they have a new product ready for release they'll usually leak some info about the product to notify the public, and then comes the official announcement and we're all inundated with a LOT of information, demos, videos, etc. Not Ketron.    Anyway, since most of us haven't heard the "Breathy Tenor Sax" demo yet, I thought I'd post a demo of the Genos "Breathy Tenor Sax" in action. It's a rendition of a Sonny Rollins/John Coltrane number from the 1950s.

Genos S.Art2 Breathy Tenor Sax 

All the best,

Mike

[Strideplayer]

I don't believe so.
New Ketron video ...

Jazz players in a keyboard
https://youtu.be/QpzKndCMOkg

This sounds similar to the sounds of the band backing Natalie Cole's Route 66.  Is any similarity purely coincidental?

[Sokratis1974]

Interesting! I looked for the video online and couldn't find it. What would make AJ remove the uploaded file? I guess some people heard it before it was yanked and supposedly it sounded great. Did anyone that listened to it before it was deleted notice any anomaly in the recording? If that's the case, maybe AJ decided to redo it. It's the weekend so maybe he was stretched for time and had other commitments. Or it could be that Ketron Italy told him to slow down and let them trickle out more slowly. FWIW, most keyboard manufacturers i.e. the Big Three, Casio, Kurzweil, Nord, etc., when they have a new product ready for release they'll usually leak some info about the product to notify the public, and then comes the official announcement and we're all inundated with a LOT of information, demos, videos, etc. Not Ketron.    Anyway, since most of us haven't heard the "Breathy Tenor Sax" demo yet, I thought I'd post a demo of the Genos "Breathy Tenor Sax" in action. It's a rendition of a Sonny Rollins/John Coltrane number from the 1950s.

Genos S.Art2 Breathy Tenor Sax 

All the best,

Mike

Hello.
So.. Completely official demos are ONLY published by Ketron Italy.
Anything else is just not official so it's anyone's guess what that means.
The official Ketron YouTube chanel is it https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1_--gf1j27aX1wC99ZAWsA

Also a few days ago I uploaded a playlist with some demos of Event in my SoundCloud https://soundcloud.com/sokratis-1974/sets/ketron-event and in order to do this I had absolute approval from the company which published it on its Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Ketronsrl

I personally follow my NDA exactly and I do absolutely nothing arbitrary that is not known to the company.
P.S. Your demo with SAX is EXELENT!!
As a Genos user even today, I think above all this saxophones of Yamaha (Genos) are the best of any other Arranger/workstation in the world.
Really, the way they are programmed this Sax sounds by the Yamaha programmers is the most ingenious I have ever come across.
RESPECT!!

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Sokratis 1974 :

Your new Event ( Ketron ) has Audio styles and voices only.
A nice looking arranger with good sounds ....
BUT ....
No Midi styles, no Midi voices might be a huge problem to convince Yamaha customers, IMHO.

Best regards, JH

[Sokratis1974]

Hi Sokratis 1974 :

Your new Event ( Ketron ) has Audio styles and voices only.
A nice looking arranger with good sounds ....
BUT ....
No Midi styles, no Midi voices might be a huge problem to convince Yamaha customers, IMHO.

Best regards, JH

Sorry my friend but this is a HUGE MYTH.
Who ever said that Ketron ONLY provides Audio Styles?
The truth is that he specializes in this type of style but!!
Who among you knows that Ketron is the only company which without any other conversion but with simply copy/paste on Modeling Folder of all Ketron models (SD9 etc) we can to have anything midi file riff  that you want to any midi channels (in Styles) we want without the slightest edit or process??
The Event as well as ALL Ketron,s arrangers are EXCELLENT and in the midi process thing that you obviously don't know..
And in the Event we have even more..

Also let me clarify.
I didn't make this post aboutn Ketron Enent and you spokes about Yamaha customers.
So let's make this clear so that no one thinks that I was doing some kind of promotion here.
Even when the first demos were announced, I here, respecting the role of the forum, did not make any announcements and this post was made by someone else.

P.S What do you mean No Midi Voice?

[Jeff Hollande]

While the short Ketron Event clip sounds very good, I am very cautious with Audio Styles. It's very inflexible. I love MIDI styles, where you can change the sound of a style track.

I made songs with the Audio drums on the Tyros 5 and now I can only play them without drums on the Genos. I am sooooo glad Yamaha stepped away from Audio Drums and started using Revo drums! These are the best of both worlds: they sound very realistic, yet are still 100% MIDI and you can do whatever you want with them.

Same for the voices: I would rather have Super Articulation than audio phrases. Full control, 100% MIDI.


Maarten

Hey Sokratis 1974 :

I refer to Maartenb's above mentioned comments.
Best regards, JH

[Sokratis1974]

Hey Sokratis 1974 :

I refer to Maartenb's above mentioned comments.
Best regards, JH

Dear Jeff.
The opinion of our friend is respected, but personally it does not give me an answer to what I asked.So I replied to the comment "No Midi styles, no Midi voices" which of course does not apply because Ketron, as I said before, is very advanced in midi styles and here I should probably make it more specific.So let's look at some functions when it comes to Ketron midi styles.

EDIT: I'M REFERRING TO THE MODELS THAT ALREADY EXIST (SD9, SD90, SD60 etc) AND NOT SPECIFIC TO THE EVENT

1 ) Drums Mixer with completed different mix in Variations directly from Main Screen without needing for this to be done exclusively by the Style Creator like Genos.Here we have Volume, Pan, Send FX, Compress Velocity and more for each Drum part.

2 ) Change Drum Sound for all Drum part (Kick, Snare, etc) different settings to each variation

3 ) Different key Chord inversion of Midi Chords, and different change octave for all Variations directly from mixer of Style Modeling.

4 ) Different TEMPO and Time Signature of each Variation with a very easy way.

5 ) Midi Bass possibilities :
A) ALTERNATE: This is a special mode for the alternate Bass that adapts it to the chord change according to the correct rule of musical harmony. For example, by not repeating the basic note or the fifth that you have played. This function works only in Styles where the alternate Bass is programmed with tonic and fifth intervals.
B) LIVE BASS: This function synchronizes the Bass immediately regardless of when the chord is played within a measure. In other words the Bass plays immediately when you play the note without waiting for the "down beat" of the measure. When this is off, the bass not is only heard on the down beat of the style's measure.
C) VOICE LOCK: This locks the bass sound so that regardless of which style you pick or keyboard setting/Registration you load, the bass instrument does not change.
D) TO ROOT: The arranger takes all the melodic notes of the automatic Bass and plays them as a basic note of the chord. When playing a song, you can turn this on and off at various parts of the song to emulate a live-band feel.

6 ) Midi files phrase copy/paste phrase on the style modeling folder and WITHOUT ANY PROCESS OR EDIT we can activate this on every Midi Chord with different selections of different Variations and of course following the chords.

7 ) Style Modeling. A brilliant and ridiculously easy way to create our own new styles without a trace of editing..

8 ) AUTO CRASH (without Record) Sound hear whenever a fill in is pressed or when you switch from one variation to another.
The same way we have and in Intro, Fill
And so more...
Thanks.

[Jeff Hollande]

Thank you for your reply, Sokratis 1974 !

When can the public expect the Event spec's, price(s) etc. ?

Best regards, JH

[Sokratis1974]

Thank you for your reply, Sokratis 1974 !

When can the public expect the Event spec's, price(s) etc. ?

Best regards, JH

I don't know dear Jeff. I hope soon..

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for that list, Sokratis. Many of those features are what we can only do in a DAW program. I'd buy that keyboard just for the live drum editor - something that was totally missed on the Genos! Yamaha has a lot of homework to do, although it wouldn't surprise me if they have it all set to go already 😁.

Questions
1- Is there any mention of seamless sound switching between registrations?
2- Will the Event be available in Canada?

[Sokratis1974]

Thanks for that list, Sokratis. Many of those features are what we can only do in a DAW program. I'd buy that keyboard just for the live drum editor - something that was totally missed on the Genos! Yamaha has a lot of homework to do, although it wouldn't surprise me if they have it all set to go already 😁.

Questions
1- Is there any mention of seamless sound switching between registrations?
2- Will the Event be available in Canada?

As it is in final stage of development before the release allow me to answer you after the official announcement. Thank you for understanding.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Lee :

As mentioned by Sokratis, he has signed an NDA with his employer, Ketron Italy. Am I right, Sokratis ?
It is obvious he cannot answer ( our ) questions ( for the time being ), I guess.

Best regards, JH

[Gunnar Jonny]

Hi
There is some 'teasers' at AJ's YT-site that may be of interest for some.
The CtrWaltz sounds good in my ears.
Would be great to see more live play with all variations and change of sounds (memories) during a song with use of different styles.

https://www.youtube.com/user/AjamSonic

[Sokratis1974]

Hey Lee :

As mentioned by Sokratis, he has signed an NDA with his employer, Ketron Italy. Am I right, Sokratis ?
It is obvious he cannot answer ( our ) questions ( for the time being ), I guess.

Best regards, JH

Exactly!! You are right dear Jeff.
So I will answer any questions you have after the official announcement.
Thanks

[Jeff Hollande]

Sokratis' answer, as far as Event's Midi styles etc. are concerned, is confusing to me.
BUT ...
I am respecting his NDA and his other obligations.
No problem. Future will tell.

Regards, JH

[Gunnar Jonny]

I hope soon..

If 'soon' have the same meaning today as when Ketron 'leaked' the arrival of Audya, we'll probably see an updated PA5X and a Genos successor (if any) before Event is out to  the stores. 
Was going to replace my lovely SD1 that I sold, but the looooooong wait brought the G70 in as replacement......

[EileenL]

Must admit I am not keen on the look of it as it seems quite bulky to me. No mention if it has a touch screen. Not very impressed.

[mikf]

2- Will the Event be available in Canada?

Lee- I don't know if things have moved forward with Ketron, but when I was interested in one some years back, all they had was a very loose arrangement of part time local representatives working from home. Not employees. The guy they had in Houston was pretty useless, not knowledgeable and couldn't even play worth a darn.
They have AJ who seems to be Mr North America for Ketron, whom I met at Don Mason's get together in Shreveport. AJ is a nice guy, based I think somewhere in the north east, and he is pretty expert, and a fair player. But I wasn't sure if even he was a Ketron employee or just a gig player who represented them as a sideline. Mind you he did talk as if he had some input into Ketron design/development.
I think if you are interested in a Ketron, you would have to contact AJ, and find out if they have anyone in your area. But even if they do, when he would have a keyboard  to bring to your home to try (apparently that's how they work) is anyone's guess. I think it's likely that Sokratis is one of these local representatives, so he has an inside track.
Basically, although the Ketron Audya seemed a great keyboard in many regards, their distribution and support network appeared pretty primitive. Reminded me of selling Tupperware. So good luck if you want to pursue it.
Mike

[Sokratis1974]

Sokratis' answer, as far as Event's Midi styles etc. are concerned, is confusing to me.
BUT ...
I am respecting his NDA and his other obligations.
No problem. Future will tell.

Regards, JH

I wasn't specifically referring to Event Midi Styles, but I'm writing in my post (Ketron Midi Styles)
Whenever what I wrote above also applies to the models that are already on the market (SD 9, 90, 60 etc).
But you're right, maybe I should have clarified that.
The Event has even more new features related to Midi Styles.

[Sokratis1974]

If 'soon' have the same meaning today as when Ketron 'leaked' the arrival of Audya, we'll probably see an updated PA5X and a Genos successor (if any) before Event is out to  the stores. 
Was going to replace my lovely SD1 that I sold, but the looooooong wait brought the G70 in as replacement......

Hi Jonny
You are right. I also experienced this with Audya.
I wasn't in Ketron's team then.. But no.. I think it won't be long now..

[Sokratis1974]

Must admit I am not keen on the look of it as it seems quite bulky to me. No mention if it has a touch screen. Not very impressed.

Hi EileenL
I would like to tell you that Genos is quite a bit more bulky..
I know this well.
All Ketron Arrangers from SD7 until today (several years ago that is) have touch screen.

[Sokratis1974]

Lee- I don't know if things have moved forward with Ketron, but when I was interested in one some years back, all they had was a very loose arrangement of part time local representatives working from home. Not employees. The guy they had in Houston was pretty useless, not knowledgeable and couldn't even play worth a darn.
They have AJ who seems to be Mr North America for Ketron, whom I met at Don Mason's get together in Shreveport. AJ is a nice guy, based I think somewhere in the north east, and he is pretty expert, and a fair player. But I wasn't sure if even he was a Ketron employee or just a gig player who represented them as a sideline. Mind you he did talk as if he had some input into Ketron design/development.
I think if you are interested in a Ketron, you would have to contact AJ, and find out if they have anyone in your area. But even if they do, when he would have a keyboard  to bring to your home to try (apparently that's how they work) is anyone's guess. I think it's likely that Sokratis is one of these local representatives, so he has an inside track.
Basically, although the Ketron Audya seemed a great keyboard in many regards, their distribution and support network appeared pretty primitive. Reminded me of selling Tupperware. So good luck if you want to pursue it.
Mike

Hi Mike.
I have been working exclusively for the Event for a year.
I had never worked on any other Ketron model before it came on the market.