Keeping My Genos Keyboard

[Lee Batchelor]

Jeff and Eileen,

When the Genos is used in a home environment, it isn't usually subject to the rigorous adjustments of the live stage. You both likely know that. On stage, you often need to make rapid adjustments. Doing so can involve slightly higher pressure levels on buttons. This is not because of abuse but from musical timing requirements. If Yamaha wants to tout the Genos as a pro-level keyboard, then they need to build it so it can withstand regular gigging.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Lee :

Thank you for your fast reply.

It looks like it is not easy to solve these problems.

All the best, JH

[Lee Batchelor]

You're welcome, Jeff.

Overall, the Genos is a stellar keyboard and for the most part the buttons are holding up but I've learned that the player must be very gentle. I never had to worry about that in earlier models 😬. I still love the sounds and that's most important. Stay well...

[Mike2]

With all this Ketron keyboard, I have to keep the Genos alive, the existing one or the future on this forum.  Look my 2 cents worth is this. Even if someone decides to keep their existing Genos, I have no doubt that the next Yamaha keyboard will be one, way beyond what one expects, and it's always exciting to upgrade. I have done it so many times, that I say, never say never. Once the new one comes out, and all the teasings you tube videos show, it will most certainly be hard to say, no. But that's what keeps competitions and the best going. I had many techncis keyboards, well all of them. But now after owning Yamaha, tyros 5 and the current genos, I have is now doubt that Yamaha  will remain at The Top!!

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

Recently 2 competitors have announced their new high end arranger keyboards for delivery in 2022/23.

I hope Yamaha will not wait too long before they are showing their video teaser of the Genos' successor to the public.

IMHO most ( potential ) customers would like to see and hear Yamaha's answer before the end of the year 2022.

JH

[Toril S]

I don't care about those competitors. Yamaha is the best, and Yamaha will be my choice always! If I ever upgrade, I will keep my Genos. That is because I never part with an instrument. So I am getting short of space.....

[tyrosman]

Well at 86 I am beginning to think the same. Genos has everything you need to play lovely music. So many lovely sound combinations can be made and some lovely backing styles to go with it. I will wait until I see one to finely decide.

same here Eileen it take,s us ages to get it the way we want it i havent descoverd the half of it

[Gunnar Jonny]

I don't care about those competitors. Yamaha is the best...

No, Yamaha is not the best, but it may be the best for your needs. But, I agree in that Genos is the best arranger from Yamaha so far.

I really care about competitors, and to see Korg, Ketron (and hopefully Yamaha) continue the TOTL Arranger production give me hope for those of us that love playing such instruments.
Competition is good for both the future development and differences that will suit different users, and it will be a sad story if we going to see more brands disapear from the market.

Now Korg has some great stuff going on that will be more completed before this year ends, and Ketron is on the way with a new model they call Event. If users care about how great arrangers may sound, they should make their ears ready for this one. 

[Toril S]

I sgree that competitors are good for developement.

[Christophermoment]

No, Yamaha is not the best, but it may be the best for your needs. But, I agree in that Genos is the best arranger from Yamaha so far.

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You are wrong, Yamaha IS the best. A few other manufacturers come a close second, but they are still second best.  You are of course entitled to your opinion even though you are wrong. 

[usaraiya]

Wow! That sure hit a nerve from our faux judge, jury & executioner!

[Christophermoment]

Wow! That sure hit a nerve from our faux judge, jury & executioner!

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Wow!!! Thank you for your eloquent summation.  As always, your thoughtful analysis and conclusion adds real clarity to a conversation. It's nice for me to hear your opinion, as you can imagine it is soooo important to me personally and I wait with bated breath for any other pearls of wisdom you might share. 

[Toril S]

Easy does it, friends😀

[Drsun19]

Imagine a Genos 2, Genos 3 with audio styles with the capability of modifying them in real time!
Or the possibility to use more detailed voices!

[Ronbo]

dear vitalog2010

I have read your article re a new Genos 2 and what it should include to remedy the shortcomings of the Genos that we all play at present.

It is extremely well written, packed full of terrific ideas that Yamaha should adopt when the time comes when developing this new Genos; if and when it becomes available.

You have presented your opinions clearly and factually.

Well done my friend

Regards

Ron

[Jeff Hollande]

Hello Genos' Home Players :

In my perception I have the impression most Genos' home players are very pleased and happy with their Genos.
" The best arranger ever made by Yamaha "as confirmed by many Genos' owners / members of this Forum here.

It looks like these Genos' owners are not in a hurry Yamaha would present a Genos' successor very soon, am I right ?
I understand that feeling. I am still in love with my Tyros4 and ... it would be hard for me to say goodbye though. 

Due to the competition pressure, it might be possible Yamaha will launch a Genos2 sooner than expected, I guess.
Wait and see.

Best wishes, JH

[EileenL]

With all the suggestions that have been made on here and then copied onto the Yamaha site I would think the poor designers are receiving therapy. If there is to be another Flag Ship then I think it will be underway by now and we must wait and see what they have decided to include. We then decide if we want to buy it. End Of.

[Jeff Hollande]

If there is to be another Flag Ship then I think it will be underway by now and we must wait and see what they have decided to include.

Sounds like music in my ears. Thank you so much !

Best regards, JH

[Lee Batchelor]

With all the suggestions that have been made on here and then copied onto the Yamaha site I would think the poor designers are receiving therapy. If there is to be another Flag Ship then I think it will be underway by now and we must wait and see what they have decided to include. We then decide if we want to buy it. End Of.

Excellent, Eileen. And if I may add, I'm happy to wait a lot longer for Yamaha's answer to the two new machines on the block. I don't want Yamaha to push the Genos 2 out the door long before it's been well thought out and ready for use. Most companies are doing that today and are using their customers as free usability subjects. If someone owns a Genos, they can afford to wait for Yamaha to get it right.

By the way Eileen. I'll bet Yamaha has anticipated most of our requests. There's little they haven't thought of. It's a matter of price. "Can we add that without driving the cost of this thing through the roof?"

[Gunnar Jonny]

.. I'll bet Yamaha has anticipated most of our requests. There's little they haven't thought of...

A few years ago I made an inquiry to Yamaha's technical customer support where I asked questions about the possibility of implementing a function via an update or as an addition to new models.
It was about how the chords show up in the display if transpose is used, something that more people than me have requested and also posted about here at the forum.
YCSupport had forwarded the question to the engineers, and the answer was quite simple. Sorry, but this was completely impossible and could not be done.
The strange thing is that this feature has been and still is present on several other brands models since the dawn of time..... 

[EileenL]

Well Lee,
  If Yamaha put everything on that has been requested, I doubt we would get it through the door let alone what the price would be. The sad thing is that most would not use half of it. How many people do you know that know what their Genos can do and it is now five years old.
  There are still many people who just want to sit down and play for themselves or others for the sheer joy of producing such lovely sounding music from this instrument. They don't want all the bells and whistles. All my playing life I have never used anything but my keyboard including any editing I have wanted. Never needed any computer programme to get what I wanted.

[Toril S]

Add me to the club, Eileen!

[Lee Batchelor]

Well Lee,
  If Yamaha put everything on that has been requested, I doubt we would get it through the door let alone what the price would be. The sad thing is that most would not use half of it. How many people do you know that know what their Genos can do and it is now five years old.
  There are still many people who just want to sit down and play for themselves or others for the sheer joy of producing such lovely sounding music from this instrument. They don't want all the bells and whistles. All my playing life I have never used anything but my keyboard including any editing I have wanted. Never needed any computer programme to get what I wanted.

Good point, Eileen. However, it still doesn't mean that those who need or want the many advanced features to expand their musical horizons, don't deserve them. I belong to four bands and with at least two of them, I can think of a few functions that would be nice to have, as to make my contribution even better. Just because we don't represent the majority of players, it doesn't make us any less important as customers. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if Yamaha touts the Genos as a pro-level instrument (and they do), then give us the tools to use it as such.

When I owned my Motif ES7, we had to do all creating and editing on the keyboard, just like the Genos (and Tyros series before it) until users demanded that Yamaha create a decent user interface so these changes could be made on our PCs. If Genos users don't need those tools, then they can ignore them. Meanwhile, pro-level players are stuck with antiquated tools that only satisfy the home players with their pro-level keyboards. I'd be happy to pay the extra for decent editing tools. There you go, Yamaha. There's another income stream for you 😀. Bet I'm not alone.

[Gunnar Jonny]

  There are still many people who just want to sit down and play for themselves or others for the sheer joy of producing such lovely sounding music from this instrument. They don't want all the bells and whistles.

Yes, but don't forget when Genos was announced, and it is clearly stated out that it is a Digital Music Workstation.
This make it legit to have certain expectations, wishes and hopes other than if it was aimed at the home market only, or.... ?
Quote:
The next step in the evolution of Digital Workstations: Genos

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/index.html

[mikf]

The main thing that drives what features get added is not cost, or lists of requests from some users, marketing statements, expectations or even how hard or easy it is to do. It's what will most significantly affect sales. That's what product development decision makers live and die by.
Mike

[EileenL]

Yes Mike,
  This would be very important for anyone wanting to sell products. They must produce something that will please everyone and suit everyone's pockets. They will of course go with what they know sells. It would be impossible to please everyone. I think a lot of people would be happy if they made things a little easier to do certain things they may find difficult at present.

[Lee Batchelor]

Yes Mike,
  This would be very important for anyone wanting to sell products. They must produce something that will please everyone and suit everyone's pockets. They will of course go with what they know sells. It would be impossible to please everyone. I think a lot of people would be happy if they made things a little easier to do certain things they may find difficult at present.

Very well put, Eileen .

[ton37]

Interesting exchange of thoughts. I notice that you mainly react from the top model (the Genos). Don't forget that Yamaha also wants/needs to bring in customers who have less requirements or have less to spend. In this line of thought, there are more models (and/or brands) that are interesting for buyers. Mostly stripped-down models and lower quality. I would have preferred a 'stripped down' Genos version, with good sounds and a good keybed, which can be played 'out of the box'. No bells and whistles on it. The SX900 comes pretty close, only they should have put in a Genos-similar keybed on it. The best thing would be a modular (software/firmware) system, so that you can decide for yourself what you want to buy. The buttons are there, only some don't work or don't have all the functions, because they are optional to buy if you want. It remains a bit 'weird' if you buy the top model, pay a top price for it and then don't use all those extras you paid for. Of course Yamaha will thank you for that, but certainly not your wallet.

[BogdanH]

...It remains a bit 'weird' if you buy the top model, pay a top price for it and then don't use all those extras you paid for....

-this can be said for every keyboard model.
I think, many are buying "better" keyboard than actually needed, and some just wish to have the best they can afford. For example: Many arranger keyboard owners never really created a style and so we could wonder, why didn't they bough some (cheaper) PSR-E keyboard instead. However, there's another aspect.. some features are simply good to have for "just in case" -especially if we know, that we can't afford to buy another keyboard anytime soon.
As for two Genos versions, where one would lack some features... I don't think that's a good idea. What features to take away? And how much price difference that would make? 10%? In that case, I bet, everyone would still buy full featured version.
However, if price difference would be quite bigger, then (depending on what features were missing), majority would probably decide for stripped version. But the thing is, even one of the two (same) keyboard has less features, it's production cost remains practically the same -it just means less income. So I don't think Yamaha would be interested in such scenario.
In that sense, I can imagine differences to be mostly on hardware side, i.e. 88 vs 61 keys, differences in back panel connections, etc. -that's what actually influences production costs.

And thinking further, I'm still surprised about substantial price difference between PSR-SX700 and SX900. And if something similar would happen with (next) Genos, I'm sure many would consider 61key option.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[EileenL]

I think that Yamaha have settled now on 76 keys for flagship and 61 for S series. Genos is not much wider that the tyros 5 61 note was.
  Here in the UK many thousands were sold and many to people who are about to retire and want to take up or continue playing music. They just want to sit and produce good sounding music with a very nice key bed good quality sounds and styles. Some do indeed venture into editing styles and voices after a while and then record there music which you will find on You Tube or face book to listen to.