Playing piano on T5

[adrianed]

Hi folks,
Playing piano on the T5 or on any instrument is a different technique to playing most other voices
I cannot work out what to do with the left hand,
I have considered piano lessons but doing that seems it will take too long to play anything,
Has anyone heard of Decplay  I have tried to gain some knowledge from their three free tutorials, it looks like it is a quick learning method, especially for a person who has been practising keyboard for some years already
Just want to be sure before I commit myself to paying out money,
Has anyone tried the Declan or Decplay method am interested to know what you think
If there is a better method of quick learning I would be pleased to know about it, keeping in mind that an 86 year old person is short of years ahead to do new things
Adrian

[mikf]

Adrian
In a way, by choosing an arranger you have already chosen the "quick learn" way to play. And you can of course play piano in a very similar way, ie lh chords and rh melody. I have no personal knowledge of the methods you mention but that is what most of these "quick learn" methods I have seen really do anyway. It will almost certainly use the lead sheet or chord numbering  methods which is what many arranger players use anyway. So I don't see a downside in trying it - apart from cost.
Because there is no auto accompaniment on a piano it wil teach you how to split the chord into individual notes like a little arpeggio that can be played as a lh accompaniment.
I would say no harm in trying it,  at your age you will not evolve into a great piano player, but you will learn something, and it will also help your arranger playing. As an arranger player already you will have a leg up.
The fact is that most good piano players evolve to this type of playing anyway, especially ear players, jazz players and band players. But they usually have a big time grounding in traditional playing and all the exercises already, so they can become really good, hitting levels that will be well beyond you. These quick learn methods skip the first step, going straight to this, so keep expectations reasonable.
Mike

[adrianed]

Thankyou Mike,
I wish I had started out as a piano player, it might then have been easier to turn to keyboards later with the way we play the chords on them, ie similar to organ playing
But we only get one chance to run our lives, we can't turn the clock back, pity we can't see ahead
We see pianos everywhere and in our families homes, they can't understand why I can't play their piano.
Adrian

[mcbrown]

I have been using this system and have found it very good for my purpose. I am originally a guitar player.

https://pianoforall.com/

Murray

[ton37]

Hi @adrianed, very recognizable, a few of my family have piano's too,  but my remarq is always: I play the keyboards and allthougt it has keys, it is not a piano ( but a pianosound). I mostly explain it furthermore: I play guitar too and allthought that has strings I cannot play a violin. 
Tmo better stick what you can and like on your T5. Or play along with some midifiles? Enjoy

[Graham UK]

I have a DGX670 Piano but play as an arranger.
After triggering each chord I add left hand arpeggios where I feel it's needed which adds interest to my playing.

[EileenL]

There are a set of Piano backing styles on the CVP piano's that work very well on tyros 5 and give you the full piano playing sound when used.

[mikf]

Some instruments are just much harder to learn than others. The arranger is designed to be easy, so although it looks a lot like a piano, there is a huge gulf in difficulty. Most good piano players can play an arranger pretty much immediately, just learn which buttons to press, but it doesn't work the other way round. Some Piano players who play purely by rote ie strictly following sheet music, may have a transition time, but if they if they have chord knowledge, or can also play by ear or lead sheets, its really very simple for them to play an arranger.
Of course getting to be really good at any instrument takes talent and dedication, but some are definitely easier to get up to basic level than others. Over the years I have played a few instruments to decent level, and I see piano is way up there in difficulty, while guitar, accordion, arranger, drums are examples of instruments that were fairly easy to get started, and up to medium level, ie public performance, especially if you already play piano. That's why those instruments are so widely played.
Yes, there are some piano styles on the arrangers that can sound ok. But there is so much more to real piano playing than this, or even adding a few arpeggio notes in your left. Piano players play everything across both hands, chord notes in the rh, basses in the left ..... and so on. It's very different to basic arranger playing.

The arranger can work well though with true piano playing, you set the fingering mode to AI Full keyboard, select a style and play pretty normal piano.
Mike

[EileenL]

If you want to play pure Piano then it is essential that you read Bass Clef music. You can't just use block chords. You also have to know how to use sustain correctly.

[mikf]

Don't know the specific system Eileen, but it probably doesn't teach traditional sheet music reading, especially bass clef. Probably works around techniques to devise your own bass and accompaniment from chords. Stride piano is a version of this, although takes much practice. I don't think the system would be harmful to an older person just wanting to play tunes, with no desire to read/play classical or sit exams.
As I said above, many of us classically trained players evolve to this kind of playing anyway, although with all the training, we are much better at it than someone like Adrian can ever aspire to be. Listen to David Read as an example. He uses experience and knowledge to make it sound like he is reading a very complex score, but he isn't, it comes out of his head from structure and chord knowledge.  I do the same, ........many piano players can do it well. ........eg Oscar Peterson???
Mike

[Toril S]

I have been attending piano lessons for a year now. I play accordion and arrangers, so I still struggle with my left hand on the piano. I will never be a good piano player at my age, but the lessons have given me much more insight into how chords and arps are built. You nedd a 88 keys instrument. Good luck! It is fun, but hard work!

[emasters]

One way to strengthen your left hand's ability to play independently is to pick a T5 style you like then play only the drum part (turn off accompaniment).  Turn on the left voice and select a Bass voice (I typically set the left hand range up to the B right below middle C).  Turn on a right hand voice (say piano, guitar, vibes, etc.).  Then work on a song.  The drum part will keep you on-time with the rhythm.  Start with just the left hand playing a bass part along with the drums.  When you get a small bass section comfortable, add chords with the right hand (I typically drop the right hand down one octave so the chords are in a better range).  Once that's comfortable, you can switch from chords to melody with the right hand (octave setting back to normal for melody).  The trick is to do this in very small sections.  And with the T5, you can initially reduce the tempo as needed, then slowly bring it up to normal speed as you improve.  If you do this a lot (practice) and are patient, your left hand will develop.  For inspiration on what to play with your left hand, find some recordings you like and focus in on what the bass player is doing - transcribe that (copy it) and work on it with your left hand.  This approach can be very satisfying and over time, you'll be surprised by how much your playing will grow.

BTW, a great book to read if you're trying to improve at something that requires body/brain coordination (like piano playing) is "Mastery" by George Leonard.  Very quick and easy read (uses martial arts as an example, but same applies to music) - and helps to set expectations about how we learn and grow.  An essential read for those trying to improve their playing ability.

[Toril S]

Thanks for the excellent advice!!

[mikf]

What emasters suggests has some value if you want to master bass riffs in tempo, but that is only one piano style, and quite advanced. For example, playing rubato on piano is very common, and desirable, and completely different technique, with a lot of feeling.
If you want to improve lh control very little beats the traditional pxercises - all the scales, major and minor scales, and arpeggios etc played in both hands. Boring maybe, but effective.
Because playing piano effectively is about so much more than lh improvement. Most people playing arrangers dont play properly with the rh either. You cant get away with single note melody lines with your rh on piano. You are producing it all across both hands , melody, harmony, passing notes, fills and maybe rhythm. Two hands and 10 fingers all working together.
Well, I didn't say it was easy
Mike     

[Toril S]

So true Mike. I have been learning this the hard way now!

[adrianed]

Thanks for the link to Pianoforall Murray,
I took a quick look at it yesterday, might be helpful, I will have a more thorough look to see how to make use of it.
Thanks again,
Adrian

[adrianed]

Thanks for that advice ton37.
I guess I just don't like to disappoint folks with excuses, there was a time when I couldn't play anything even on a keyboard, that is for most of my life
There is a challenge to learn something new, but I remember the difficult and disappointing days in the beginning so I am reluctant to go back to that
Adrian

[adrianed]

Thankyou Eileen for your two replies of help, it's all good for knowledge,
Adrian

[adrianed]

Hi Graham UK,
Ill see if I can do that.
Adrian

[adrianed]

Mike are you quietly telling me I won't be a concert pianist by Christmas ? that's a blow, perhaps I should cancel the bookings
All the best
Adrian

[adrianed]

Thanks Toril S
Adrian

[adrianed]

Thanks emasters,
That sounds very interesting, I will have a go at that
Adrian

[DerekA]

As a *very simple* starter for 10, try plaing the chord root doubled on the left hand.

Ignore whether the chord is major, minor, diminished, flat 5 sharp 9 etc  ......

If the chord is C - play 2 C's using your left thumb and little finger.

If the chord is slashed (e.g. C/D) play 2 D's using your left thumb and little finger.

[stephenm52]

I have been attending piano lessons for a year now. I play accordion and arrangers, so I still struggle with my left hand on the piano. I will never be a good piano player at my age, but the lessons have given me much more insight into how chords and arps are built. You nedd a 88 keys instrument. Good luck! It is fun, but hard work!

I started piano lessons at a young age so I have nothing to add.  However, speaking of the left hand unless I workout exercises for both hands but especially the left hand my fingers get weak and it can be a struggle to play piano properly.  Sometimes the left hand doesn't feel as comfortable as it should. I attribute that to using the arranger so many years, the left hand gets lazy.

[adrianed]

Hi Stephenm52,
I have noticed it takes a lot more effort to press the keys on a normal piano, I have not looked at them yet but perhaps the newer keyboard type pianos are more touch sensitive even with the key weighting
Thankyou for taking the time to look into this conversation
I am not put off the idea of trying piano playing even after some negative replies,
My original question was what to do with my left hand and is there any easy methods to get me going, but it seemed to encourage one to tell me I would never be able to play and how good they are themselves
Thankyou
Adrian

[adrianed]

Ok DerekA
I will try that
Adrian

[stephenm52]

Hi Stephenm52,
I have noticed it takes a lot more effort to press the keys on a normal piano, I have not looked at them yet but perhaps the newer keyboard type pianos are more touch sensitive even with the key weighting
Thankyou for taking the time to look into this conversation
I am not put off the idea of trying piano playing even after some negative replies,
My original question was what to do with my left hand and is there any easy methods to get me going, but it seemed to encourage one to tell me I would never be able to play and how good they are themselves
Thankyou
Adrian

You're welcome Adrian.

[mikf]

Adrian, actually your original question was whether anyone had knowledge of Decplay, and if they thought it worthwhile.
If you want to know simple things to do with your your lh, to get started I could tell you, - play the appropriate chord in your lh while you play the melody in your right, just like on the arranger except you hold it with the sustain pedal. When you get the hang of this, try splitting the chord into a mini arpeggio, fitting the notes into the tempo ..........and so on. Then start trying to alter the sequence of the notes for more interesting accompaniment, learn to play bass and chord separate like .... Etc etc. But that would be what the course does in much more detail than I can do here. So if you want to learn....get the course.
There are many of these courses out there, they are all similar, they teach piano playing based on chords, rather than the traditional method, so you get to playing tunes much faster. The original I think was Scott Houston, "the piano guy". You can actually get some free Scott Houston videos around the internet, that show the basics of how these methods work. Maybe that would let you try out whether you want to do this before parting with money.
But I can tell you right now that the issue is not going to be the cost. Or whether you picked the best course. It's going to be that the arranger is made to make you sound good playing exactly this way, but the piano is not. You will probably get the hang of the basics quite quickly, especially as you already play arranger this way, but to sound good will take ages, developing improved playing style, better rh etc. The real test is will you be able stick with it when you can just revert to arranger and sound so much better
Mike

[adrianed]

Mike,
The question has always been in my mind, do I want to start at the beginning again with another type of instrument.
People come to my home and if they ask me to play, I can play a tune or two but when I go to their homes and they have a piano I can't play anything on it
I believe I can learn to play few songs on piano to get me over this problem
This was what made me send in the post, trying get any tips I could from any angle.
I have received a few tips that I am going to try
I was probably in my 50s when I started learning organ and then keyboard and it seemed very difficult but it didn't stop me or my wife going for weekly lessons.
Adrian

[mikf]

Adrian
Playing piano well enough for your own enjoyment, I think that's possible regardless of age, in a few months, if you spend a bit of time each day. Especially since you already play and are not starting from zero. Playing well enough to sit down and play a piano for others....that's a big ask.
We all listen to our grandkids who are learning to encourage them, but listening to an adult playing an instrument at beginner level, most of us would see that as a form of torture ....LOL 
Mike