Korg PA5X

[soryt]

its here now >> https://youtu.be/2InFUgORHEo

Now waiting for Genos 2 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

hi
Also the Piano seems to be mostly featured.
I want to know what the saxes and Electric guitars are like.
From the videos so far things seem a little toppy.
From the Violin i thought it sounded more like Roland sounds.
The thing is that we need to see more interesting videos and hear the thing live really
Making styles from midi easier seems like a great idea.
Loading sounds easier would be great rather than The yamaha pack system.
Also will there be a file for Cubase 12 for sounds.
More space for your own samples
To convince me to change from Genos will take a lot more questions to answer.

All the best
John

[Gunnar Jonny]

More info to find here at Korg's site:
https://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/pa5x/

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Electric guitars sound a little off to me.
Some of those Korg demos did not convince me.
So far i have not got the wow factor
No real sax demo's also

[EileenL]

Why are we talking about Korg on a Genos thread. This should obviously have its own thread called other keyboards or better still if you want to know more then go to the Korg forum. I have not been that impressed by what I have seen so far.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Because we are interested in the future of keyboards and making comparisons with other makes of keyboards. It is all relevant in my view
To tell you the truth Eileen, i am not too impressed at the moment.
I think it is now time for Yamaha to speak to us about the future.


All the best
John

[Jeff Hollande]

As usual Yamaha will only talk about their new high end arranger keyboard when it is ready for sale and will be launched very soon.

We are all very loyal and are respecting Yamaha's policy.

JH

[PhotoDoc05]

Nice 12 minute demo from Alois Mueller channel, he has several videos up already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUmUAGoHqo

Jerry

[soundphase]

The Graphical User Interface is very very beautiful and complete.

I wonder if Allois Mueller pre-programmed the chords, or if they are dynamically detected from what he plays. If it is dynamically detected, the AI algorithm is very very powerful (and interesting) as counterpoints are complex.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The saxes are unreal from what my ears tell me and everything sounds too toppy.
The Genos sound is far superior in my view , so i will wait for Genos 3.
The advantage of the PAX5 is make styles easier and  a little more depth in editing.
I heard also a harmonica sound and it does not compare to the Genos
Come on Yamaha , you can knock the pants of this Korg machine if you make the next one with easier to make styles and better editing and seemless switching.

We need someones demo that not schlager orientated and more to 60s and 70s and 80s for us baby boomers.
I must admit that you want to buy it, because it looks well made and with those stylish wooden ends gives the machine lots of Charater .
The big screen is another puller, but i need convincing on the sound which is most important

[mixermixer]

Yeah this is my take also, the korg sounds tinny/doesn't sound "warm/full" IMO and the styles don't really sound realistic though they only gave us like 20 seconds total spread out across the official video from KORG YT. Looks like they added performance pads ala Fantom while adding a LED strip to show what the sliders are controlling ala Genos. What's really cool is the ability to play 2 styles and crossfade them!

[Lee Batchelor]

The piano, e.piano, and organs sound better on the surface but live, it may be a different story. The drum kits sound way behind the Genos. One thing is, they'll never sell me if all they do is demo the keyboard by playing Dance or Synth sounds. I have no interest whatsoever in that kind of music. The traditional tunes are in my playing area, not the modern stuff .

Let me hear what I need and I'll consider it. Then again, it will likely be a year before we see a PA5X in Canada!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Lee
This Korg Machine from what i hear is not as good as the Genos
The appearance is fantastic but the sounds are to agressive in my view
Have you noticed from all the videos that the attention is given mostly to the pianos which i do admit sound good.
The electric pianos on the other hand sounded too glassy,harmonica squeaky, Electric Guitars thin, saxes thin and brash.

[soundphase]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pR3hyAl4U

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, John - although one demo may not be enough. Yamaha has a lot of homework to do but I have faith in their "wow" factor .

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pR3hyAl4U

So sharp sounding and all piano ,strings way too sharp guitar off the scale pale and thin
The machine so far lacks body in the sounds or is it my ears at 71

Come on Eileen get the cat and nine tails out on Yamaha!!

[rodrigo.b]

I'm not impressed too but I love the fact that now you have 8gb to create your own DNC,  RX sounds, and drum kits. That means that you can record for example a Cuban Tres guitar with all the noises and articulations, program it exactly like one of the factory nylon guitar sounds and then replace the nylon guitar sound on the factory latin cuban styles with the new sound that you created to get absolutely authentic results. That is not posible on Genos, you can't create MegaVoices or S.Art voices

[EileenL]

All good things come to those who wait.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Do i detect some smoke
I just saw the French demo and The Pax5 sounds totally inferior to the Genos.
Some styles sounded good , all the rest below par
I will be patient

[soundphase]

Not totally agree.
At least one very good string orchestra sound for me. Piano, Electric piano and organs are very very good.

And styles are better than Genos styles.

Smooth transition is a must. I hope that will be the case with Genos 2.

I can also wait.

Generally, when Eillen said such things for previous Tyros and Genos, we waited no more than 6 months.

[Amwilburn]

Not totally agree.
At least one very good string orchestra sound for me. Piano, Electric piano and organs are very very good.

And styles are better than Genos styles.

Smooth transition is a must. I hope that will be the case with Genos 2.

I can also wait.

Generally, when Eillen said such things for previous Tyros and Genos, we waited no more than 6 months.

Er... not quite.

PA4x launched May of 2015 here, Genos launched Dec of 2017 here (but we had the sku in our system since Sept 2017)  but either way that was over 2 years later, not 6 months.

Why? Probably because Yamaha was waiting to see how much of a splash the PA4x would make before replacing the Tyros 5.

Then again, if the PA5x makes a huge splash, you bet Yamaha will hurry things up!

Mark

[soundphase]

I talked about the delay between the time when Eillen starts to suggest we wait and the time when a new flagship is launched. Otherwise she says she doesn't think a new keyboard will appear quickly.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Well that sounds out of phase

[MadrasGiaguari]

......organs are very very good.

I kindly disagree. So far I listened to quite a few videos, and the Leslie simulation is still VERY poor. I would call it a Vibrato more than a Rotary effect.

I don't know why Yamaha and Korg (the top arrangers manufacturers IMHO), still lack on this item.

I own an Hammond Xm2 module. Its Leslie is almost perfect and far, far better than Genos and Pa5x Leslie simulation. The XM2 started to be sold in 2005, almost 20 years ago!

[Duffy]

What is so annoying is that Yamaha CAN do it. If you listen to the YC upgrade 2 series (stage keyboard) such as YC 61, they have a brilliant Hammond & Leslie speaker simulation.
The original YC 61 was criticised for having a poor organ & Leslie simulation so Yamaha brought out an upgrade that in the version 2 was absolutely brilliant.
This update was done in the same way as the Genos update 2 so Yamaha should be able to give us that, even if it had to be a paid for update.
If this cannot be done then it would be nice if Yamaha could explain this to us.

[keynote]

"YC Stage Organ Keyboard" OS 1.2

This update was done in the same way as the Genos update 2 so Yamaha should be able to give us that, even if it had to be a paid for update. If this cannot be done then it would be nice if Yamaha could explain this to us.

Yeah, I too think Yamaha could improve the Genos Leslie simulation with an OS update. Although, I think they'll wait until Genos II which will likely include an improved Leslie simulation onboard. It's all about marketing in order to make more profit. They'll wait and provide improved and added features/functions on the Genos II which gives people more of a reason to upgrade to the newest model. Yamaha waited about 2 years after the PA-4X was released before releasing the Genos. If the past is a prologue we might not see an actual Genos II for a couple more years or so. Perhaps winter or summer NAMM 2024. It gives Yammie more time to scope out the Korg PA-5X. Perhaps they already have one in their possession. Yamaha engineers will have a field day basically inspecting every nook and cranny to see what makes the PA-5X tick. On that knowledge and understanding, Yamaha will likely then introduce features, sounds, and technology on the Genos II that hopefully, will one-up the Korg. Blowing the PA-5X out of the water will be much harder IMO. The PA-5X sounds fabulous IMO and it's feature rich. Although it only has 160-note polyphony but it's allocated across the entire range of the keyboard. The Genos has 256 but as we know it's divided between the factory sounds and the expansion sounds i.e. 128 + 128. In most situations, Genos users would have a difficult time utilizing more than 128 polyphony, especially when playing live IMO. 128 note is rather limiting as various note dropout tests have pointed out. And therefore note dropouts in most situations would happen more often on the Genos compared to the PA-5X even though the Korg only has 160 polyphony. Therefore, hopefully, the Genos II will include 256-note polyphony ACROSS THE ENTIRE RANGE OF THE KEYBOARD which would be another nice incentive for people to upgrade their Genos I would think. Anyway, as one person mentioned if the PA-5X sells like hotcakes Yamaha might spring into action and get the Genos II off the assembly line and into store perhaps in 2023. Here's to hoping. 

[Jeff Hollande]

IMHO Yamaha will not create a new Genos ( v3 ) update.

BUT ... what we might expect is a brand new high end arranger keyboard.
A complete new arranger with typical Yamaha styles, voices, software, features, looks and design.
We all know what that means : high quality, beauty and reliability.   

This next Yamaha arranger ( brand name : Genos2 ? ) will be the best keyboard for all users : home players, giggers and pro musicians.
It will be the best keyboard on the market, as usual.

Your wait and patience will be rewarded. 

Best regards, JH

[soundphase]

It seems possible on korg pa-5x and perhaps before that a feature allows style chord changes to be only triggered with low velocities. It allows complex counterpoints with higher velocities.

[Lee Batchelor]

To Jeff's point...the level at which these keyboards reside in the list of all the arrangers, invokes a high degree of brand loyalty. It's unlikely there will be a mass exodus from the Genos to the PA5X, and Yamaha knows this. Yes, we're all anxious to see Yamaha's response to the PA5X, but they will think Genos 2 through very carefully. I suspect they've had the prototype built for a long time. They just need to ensure there's nothing missing that would jeopardize their position in the marketplace.

As a side note I would like to see less "repurposing" of the traditional styles on Genos 1 to Genos 2. The jump from Tyros 5 to Genos was excellent but many of the styles were just changed a bit and reused with the newer voices. Many had the same old sound. If Yamaha can't do that, then give us an external style creator that we can use to make our own styles. The internal style creator works but it's like a pig on stilts. Very clumsy and not well thought out.

[Dnj]

The so called Genos 2 price will have to be lowered to match Pa5x to compete in these hard times also and a 61/76/& 88 key model and a Genos Module will have to be offered to make it exciting & interesting if they are smart to bring in the young & old at this point imo..