Chord Tutor Function

[Divemaster]

This afternoon I came across an unusual chord in a piece of music I was learning.

So I thought I'd try out the Chord Tutor in Menu 2 of my SX700.

I found the chord I wanted and played it....It didn't sound right.
Played it again....Not right.

So I consulted my Chord Book and found the notes were wrong on the chord tutor.

So as a matter of pure interest I put the chord of C Major into Chord Tutor and it tells me to play the notes G C and E   and not C E and G

Anyone? 



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[TiasDad]

Thats called a chord inversion.
Root chord of C Major is C E G. First inversion is E G C, Second inversion is G C E

The difference in sound will depend on the chord style in your settings

Inversions can make chord changes easier, for example ..

Changing from C to Am using root chords, the C E G would all need to be dropped down by 3 semitones to A C E, whereas using the 2nd invertion of C, G C E, you just need to move the G up by 2 semitones to the A

I hope that helps

[overover]

This afternoon I came across an unusual chord in a piece of music I was learning.

So I thought I'd try out the Chord Tutor in Menu 2 of my SX700.

I found the chord I wanted and played it....It didn't sound right.
Played it again....Not right.

So I consulted my Chord Book and found the notes were wrong on the chord tutor. ...

Hi Divemaster,

What's the name of the chord that the Chord Tutor initially "displayed incorrectly"?

By the way, if you transposed the keyboard, a "properly played" chord might still sound "wrong".


Best regards,
Chris

[Divemaster]

Thank you both for trying to explain this to me.

I 'sort of' get what you're trying to educate me with, and I'm grateful. but as a home player,  this has confused me no end.

Surely IF i am starting to learn chords and I just want a C Chord, then how do I know that I have to play an inversion of it, and not the usual simple basic C E and G?  The music shows me a C and under it the notes C E and G. I understand this and play it.  But the chord tutor ISN'T showing me a C Major Chord. It's showing me a First Inversion C Major Chord.....How would I have known that if I had never seen a chord of C before?

Chris. the chord that I tried to play is F Sharp 7.

So in the Chord Tutor on my SX700 it tells me to play   A sharp  C sharp  E  and F sharp

In my chord book  it tells me to play F sharp  A sharp  C sharp  and E

( sorry I can't see how to type flats and sharps on my laptop atm (another project)..

My point is quite simple. If I was a complete learner (not likely on an arranger keyboard I know) I'd find this extremely confusing, because there seems to be no actual way to play a chord without deciding which 'inversion' to use?




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[overover]

Thanks for the feedback, Divemaster!

When learning/practicing chords, I recommend that you first leave the automatic accompaniment (ACMP) switched off and and use e.g. a piano voice.

Then you will quickly see (or hear ) that a chord can also be played in one of the possible inversions and still always sound "right". When practicing chords, you should not have the keyboard transposed. (By the way, I NEVER play with a transposed keyboard myself, because I hear the tones/chords "absolutely" and would ruin my musical hearing or would always play wrong.)

The tones you mentioned (from Chord Tutor and your chord book) for the chord "F#7" (F# Dominant 7th) are identical:

The notes of the F# chord (F# major) are:
F# - A# - C#

And for the F#7 chord, the so-called "minor seventh" note is added. This is the note two semitones below the root, so here the note E:
F# - A# - C# - E

You can play these notes in any position on the keyboard, it will always remain the F# (= F# major) respectively the F#7 chord.


A simple trick is to first play chords with many sharps for flats one semitone higher or lower:

Instead of the F# or F#7 chord, play e.g. first a G or G7 chord (i.e. one semitone higher).

G chord (G major) is:
G - B - D

G7 chord is:
G - B - D - F

Now play each of these notes one semitone lower and - voila - you have F# or F#7, i.e. the notes F# - A# - C# (- E).

By the way, the note A# is the same physical key on the keyboard as the note Bb (B flat). But for the keys and scales that use "sharps" (#), we usually call it A#.


I don't want to confuse you too much here. But if you have any other questions about chords (or even scales), please just ask!

Best regards,
Chris

[Steve_Kelley]

Divemaster,

I think I faced the same dilemma that you are currently facing when I took up the keyboard about 18 months ago. I had played a piano in my youth, but basically knew nothing about chords, and it soon came apparent that you need to understand chords if you want to advance on an arranger keyboard.

Although it didn't appear promising on the first glance, I learned a lot about chords (with minimum effort) by watching the series of videos on YouTube from Kathy Ramirez: First Aid Chord Kit. She gives you all of the basic information that you need to get your arms around this topic. Once you've mastered that, there is a very good course on this site ("The Secrets of Exciting Chords and Chord Progressions") that gives you a deeper view of the topic. Complete that and you'll be well on your way.

[andyg]

Ditch the Chord Tutor and use this! It's as good as anything else around and a lot better than some of the chord charts/books!

It puts all the chords in sensible inversions, all as close to each other as possible, and groups them in 'families', so the prime chords you need for playing in any given key are close to each other on the chart.

I have to disagree with overover on one point. I'd recommend keeping the accompaniment on - making sure that the keyboard is set to play a sustained sound and a bass note. Even better, use a Freeplay style like Ethereal Movie or my own AG Freestyle 1. That will allow you to develop the essential ability to release chords early, giving you time to get to the next one - even if it is only next door. AG Freestyle 1 is available for free on my website's downloads page.

@overover. I too have perfect pitch and initially found transposers aurally confusing. However, over the course of a week or two, I went from 1 semitone up/down to working comfortably at +/- 6 semitones. To anyone who has problems, I'd suggest doing the same - but take your time! +/-1 for a few days, then +/-2 and so on.

[mikf]

Divemaster - chords or notes are usually typed in capitals and the flat designated by typing a small b - Ab .......sharps by the number symbol # so F#.
Your confusion is caused by not understanding that a chord is just a designated set of notes played together. The specific sequence of those notes is an inversion BUT the notes don't change. Ie a C chord is still a C chord regardless of the sequence of notes.
In most cases the sequence of the notes is unimportant and this is particularly true on an arranger where it will sound the same unless you set the fingering mode to distinguish the difference. You ask how you are supposed to know it's a C Chord if the sequence is not shown as C E G. I am afraid the answer is that unfortunately you just have to know. That's a fundamental of music.
When the inversion is important this will be indicated on the music by a / but this is more advanced playing than you want at your stage.
In fact my first question would be if you are as much a novice as your questions would seem to indicate why are you messing with songs that have F#7 chords? Keyboard playing is not simple and you need to start slow and work up to more complex keys, inversions etc
Mike

[wersianer]

Ditch the Chord Tutor and use this! It's as good as anything else around and a lot better than some of the chord charts/books!

It puts all the chords in sensible inversions, all as close to each other as possible, and groups them in 'families', so the prime chords you need for playing in any given key are close to each other on the chart.

I have to disagree with overover on one point. I'd recommend keeping the accompaniment on - making sure that the keyboard is set to play a sustained sound and a bass note. Even better, use a Freeplay style like Ethereal Movie or my own AG Freestyle 1. That will allow you to develop the essential ability to release chords early, giving you time to get to the next one - even if it is only next door. AG Freestyle 1 is available for free on my website's downloads page.

@overover. I too have perfect pitch and initially found transposers aurally confusing. However, over the course of a week or two, I went from 1 semitone up/down to working comfortably at +/- 6 semitones. To anyone who has problems, I'd suggest doing the same - but take your time! +/-1 for a few days, then +/-2 and so on.

Unfortunately it was not possible to download the Freestyle 1 from your site.

[meyrick]

Hi AndyG.
Having scoured your Downloads page, I cannot find the Freestyle 1 download. Perhaps you could point me in the correct direction, I would be most grateful.

Regards
meyrick

[Divemaster]

Thanks for all of your replies.

Although I have been playing for many years, and although I'm not unintelligent, I DO have big difficulties with music theory. I really struggle with it. Crotchets, quavers, semibreves etc just confuse me. I can play pretty well anything up to pieces with 3 sharps or three flats, but beyond that I struggle. I can play for 2 to 3 hours at a time, missing very few notes, but I often have to look up a new piece on say YouTube to work out the timings of the piece.  It's just the way I'm wired..

But this year having more time on my hands, I decided to try and improve my playing, and the first thing for me to tackle is learning a number of chords. So that's why, if I come across a chord I don't recognise, I have to look it up. I will always TRY to play it if I can. I won't run away from it. So you'll appreciate that when that chord is being shown with the same notes in one book (or chord finder), and in another book it's completely different and  in a different sequence, I struggle to understand why that is.

I learned C Major CEG when I was about 7 years old.  I've never, ever, seen it played differently.....But I had never even heard of inversions before. Neither has my wife who sings in a local choir with a professional choirmaster /organist. She plays a Technics Digital Ensemble Piano SX - PR900. I am 75 she is 73, so we obviously weren't taught very well!

She found this amazingly funny, and likened it to the Morecambe and Wise Show where Andre Previn was their guest.
Eric Morecambe, after making a complete shambles of a piece, famously grabbed Andre Previn by his lapels and said
" I AM playing all the right notes.....Just not neccessarily in the right order"

All of your replies are useful and I can only aspire to get better with hours and hours of practice.  I know some of you are hugely experienced, and I could never get to your levels of play, but it won't stop me trying!

Thank you, all of you.

[mikf]

Divemaster - I think it's important that you don't view playing music like a math test. The object is not to take on more and more difficult problems and get the correct answer. It is to produce something beautiful, however simple, with enough control to allow feeling and emotion to shine through. Even the odd mistake is unimportant if the overall is good.
When you say that you don't shy away from difficult chords the message for me is you are looking at the wrong challenge.
I walk into a room and play ' over the rainbow' in C and it sounds gorgeous, the listeners are humming along, caught up in the beauty of a favorite song - or I walk in and play the same song in F#, a very difficult key for most amateur players, and although  it sounds a bit robotic I get through it without an actual mistake. If the second is the more satisfying I am not thinking about music correctly - at least that is my view.
Mike

[Divemaster]

Thank you Mike. I really appreciate that.  It makes sense

[Pityus]

It may be simple, but I don't know that after the Dm chord, the sheet music asks for the Dmmaj chord.
What sounds do I press to achieve the latter?
Furthermore, catching a Dm7 / G chord is also problematic.

[mikf]

....sheet music asks for the Dmmaj chord.....

That doesn't really make sense to me. Which song??
Are you sure it's not a misprint. They could be trying to indicate a Dm(maj7) chord which is a Dm with a top C#and it misprinted.
You may not need to play this chord if the melody already has the D# or it could be part of a descending chord run which includes the notes D. C#, C which would read Dm Dm(maj7) Dm7.

Mike

[Toril S]

It is fun to learn and develope skills, but don't push it too hard, the fun might go out of the playing, and that is NOT good. If it sounds good, it IS good

[EileenL]

A DmMaj7 is D F A Db and a Dm7/G is what is known as a slashed chord originally used in organ music as you also played a pedal board. These type of chords can now be easily played using AI fingering. Just play the D min chord with a G note below it.

[Pityus]

"I Just called to say i love you" is a major music score by Stevie Wonder.
After that I found two more sheet music, in a different tone, each showing a different kind of chord.
Unfortunately, all 3 sheet music are quite primitive in elaboration.
It would be nice to get a normal one if it could be in the easiest tone to play.

[TiasDad]

Divemaster, I've never grasped the theory behind the dots but I can listen very well so I play by ear. If I like a song, I'll listen to it over and over on You Tube, while picking out the melody, working out the key and eventually the chords. If I get stuck I'll google the song name followed by the word 'chord', you can do the same but add the word 'tempo' to also help you. I'm finding each song teaches me a different key and the associated chords that are played in that key. It get's to the point where I'm challenging myself to find songs with awkward chords to learn more from. You'll also find many artists record in the same key for most of their songs, which makes sense as the key would have to suit their vocal range and comfort

One good benefit I've found with playing by ear is the ability to ad lib a little and enhance the song above what the dots tell you.

You'll get there ... one song at a time

[mikf]

Playing by ear on an arranger is relatively easy because you only need a chord and the melody. Most people can learn to do it and everyone should try.
C and W and simple pop are usually based on only 3 or 4 chords and very repetitive progressions. Move up to more complex music by the great American composers like Gershwin, Van Heuson and Kern for much more intricate progressions. Use an app like a chordify to get these more complex harmonies right because not many people have the ear to pick up the chords when the going gets tougher.
BTW - it's not correct that a vocalist will have 'a key'. The key will be chosen depending on the range of the particular song. If you find a few songs by the same singer in the same key that is coincidence - nothing more.

[Divemaster]

One programme I have found to be of immense help to me is SCAN SCORE

It's not free, but with it, you can scan a sheet of music from your computer direct to your PC (I use Windows 10 Pro).

Once done, you can then press a few buttons and it will transpose it into any other key from which it has been written, and print it out.

So for an example a piece with 4 x flats and 4 sharps (which is way beyong my capability), can be changed into a key inwhich you are far more comfortable playing with. It's not always perfect but it's a very useful tool in the box.

[TiasDad]

One programme I have found to be of immense help to me is SCAN SCORE

It's not free, but with it, you can scan a sheet of music from your computer direct to your PC (I use Windows 10 Pro).

Once done, you can then press a few buttons and it will transpose it into any other key from which it has been written, and print it out.

So for an example a piece with 4 x flats and 4 sharps (which is way beyong my capability), can be changed into a key inwhich you are far more comfortable playing with. It's not always perfect but it's a very useful tool in the box.

But are you learning from doing this?

I force myself to learn each song in the recorded key (I don't sing, believe me, I don't sing, lol) This way, you'll soon learn the sharps & flats and wonder what you were worrying about in the first place

[Divemaster]

 I'm not going to get into an argument about this, so I'll make this my last post on this thread.

The answer is quite simple.

If you can play in 4 flats or 4 sharps.....Great.

I can't.....I've only got one eye.....sight reading isn't simple.

[EileenL]

Well Said Divemaster,
  We each pick what is comfortable and gives us enjoyment in playing. That to me is the main thing.

[Divemaster]

Thank you Eileen....Really.

[Toril S]

The transpose buttons are the most beloved buttons on my keyboard😀 Unfortunately they are not to be found on my accordion😀