Neophyte playlist/registration crash and burn

[Rich Z]

So I am still VERY wet behind the ears with the Genos, and poking around here and there trying to figure things out.  I bought the optional Lessons-2021 memory stick here and decided I would use the various .MFD files included and convert them to the Genos PlayList format with the internal conversion program. PlayLists seems like such a good idea, I figure this would be a great place to start with some add-ins.  I started with the Tyros5 file and that seemed to work just fine, from what I could tell, so all seemed well.  And while I was in that mode, I went and converted all of the rest of those .MFD files I could find. The more the merrier, right?

Was that a mistake? Reason I ask, is because when I tried MANY of those playlists the results I got were, well, unsatisfactory, to say the least.  Matter of fact, if I hear the intro to the style 90sBeatBallad one more time, I fear for my sanity.

After figuring out that it was a registration issue, and finding LOTS of registration folders in my USER section, with nearly every single one of them using that 90sBeatBallad as the style of choice, well something surely went amiss in the conversion process. Seems that nearly EVERY item on those new playlsts has the #1 registration button lit, and that is what it is using when I play it.  Now, not all of them, but I would say easily 90 percent of them.  Granted, I haven't checked ALL of the new playlists that I wound up creating. Honestly I was REAL close to going off my rocker hearing that style mentioned above over and over and over again. As an aside, a few of the newly created PlayLists I checked seemed to have zero entries in the playlist itself.

So I guess one of my questions would have to be, is trying to import .MFD files from some (many?) of the other Yamaha arrangers just a real bad idea for the Genos?  Second question would have to be, is what I have done fixable without having to use a sledge hammer?  Is there a general RESET procedure I could use to just wipe out all of them in one fell swoop? Or just manually deleting ALL of those newly created registration folders the best bet to pursue?  I almost started to do that, but figured I have better ask question first before maybe just making matters much worse.

I haven't done anything on the Genos yet that would cause me any heartburn if it got wiped out at this point.  I only really played with the general Equalizer settings a bit, but I tweak it so much that starting from scratch would probably be in my best interests anyway.

Honestly, I did watch as many videos as I could find concerning PlayLists and registrations, but obviously those questions I now have after sticking my toes into those functions were not pre-answered in any of them.

So, advice please?

And is there a list of things that I should NOT try to do on the Genos concerning using older model styles, voices, registrations, etc? I sort of feel gun shy having stumbled on one seemingly right off the bat here.

[Fred Smith]

Rich,

The easiest way to start over is to get your computer to delete the files.

Connect the Genos to your computer using a standard printer cable (the USB-Host port on the Genos to a USB port on the computer).
Power on the Genos while holding down the Playlist button. The Genos will display USB Storage Mode

Now your User drive looks like an external drive to the computer. You want to delete most/all of the REGIST and PLAYLIST folders.

After you've cleaned up the drive, I would tackle playlists that were designed for the Genos. The Superior Pack and the PlaylistForGenos are two of the best.

Hope this helps,
Fred

[EileenL]

Most M F files will contain the same styles so Tyros 5 would have been sufficient if you needed them.
  Have you downloaded the bonus Playlist folders from the download site. Much better for your Genos. You can of course create your own playlists from any registrations you make.

[Rich Z]

Rich,

The easiest way to start over is to get your computer to delete the files.

Connect the Genos to your computer using a standard printer cable (the USB-Host port on the Genos to a USB port on the computer).
Power on the Genos while holding down the Playlist button. The Genos will display USB Storage Mode

Now your User drive looks like an external drive to the computer. You want to delete most/all of the REGIST and PLAYLIST folders.

After you've cleaned up the drive, I would tackle playlists that were designed for the Genos. The Superior Pack and the PlaylistForGenos are two of the best.

Hope this helps,
Fred

Thanks for the tip about how to set up the Genos to be visible from the PC.  But once I took a look at how Yamaha wants to delete the registration folders, it wasn't all that tough, so I did it that way.  I only retained the Tyros5 folder, since that seemed to work OK.  I am wondering if I had copied the other .MFD files to the internal USER area if that conversion process would have gone better?  From what I understand, there is 53gb of storage there, so I would much rather use that area to hold all files instead of having to mess with USB sticks unless I have to.

[Rich Z]

Most M F files will contain the same styles so Tyros 5 would have been sufficient if you needed them.
  Have you downloaded the bonus Playlist folders from the download site. Much better for your Genos. You can of course create your own playlists from any registrations you make.

Actually I had tried to take a look at the bonus playlists from Yamaha, but I didn't have much luck with them.

I tried two:

• PlaylistForGenosV2SuperiorPack
  
• PlaylistForGenos
  

Something about a file missing or something error message for my efforts. But I didn't have them in the root of the USB drive, so maybe that was it.  Perhaps they will work better in the USER internal area?  Hopefully not needing to be in the root area, as I tend to like structure in file directories so use subfolders to try to keep things organized.

Perhaps my failure with the other MFD files I converted was because a style was not found for some of them, and Genos defaulted to that 90sBeatBallad style?  Maybe I need to play around with the styles first and load up some sets that I found on that Lessons-2021 USB stick I got.

Maybe I need to thumb through the manual to see if the Genos has a current state snapshot backup in case I need to just roll things back to a known point if something gets screwed up by my tinkering around.  I have a bad case of "I wonder what would happen if...."

[Fred Smith]

The YAmaha playlists work only from the USB drive. If you try to move them to the User drive, the link is broken.

It's just a matter of unzipping the contents to the root of the USB drive.

Cheers,
Fred

[Rich Z]

The YAmaha playlists work only from the USB drive. If you try to move them to the User drive, the link is broken.

It's just a matter of unzipping the contents to the root of the USB drive.

Cheers,
Fred

Hmm... Well, what is that 53gb USER area there for?  And what is the link that is broken? Link to what?  Just seems kind of odd to me to be REQUIRED to use a removable USB stick for files that could be more conveniently stored internally. It would be just one more thing to have to keep track of.  Aren't there three USB ports on the Genos?  Does it matter which port that USB drive would be plugged into?  And what happens if there is more than one USB stick plugged into 2 or 3 of the slots?

Sorry, hope this doesn't come across as being difficult, just trying to understand the Yamaha philosophy concerning file access.

[Fred Smith]

Hmm... Well, what is that 53gb USER area there for?  And what is the link that is broken? Link to what?  Just seems kind of odd to me to be REQUIRED to use a removable USB stick for files that could be more conveniently stored internally. It would be just one more thing to have to keep track of.  Aren't there three USB ports on the Genos?  Does it matter which port that USB drive would be plugged into?  And what happens if there is more than one USB stick plugged into 2 or 3 of the slots?

Sorry, hope this doesn't come across as being difficult, just trying to understand the Yamaha philosophy concerning file access.

"Why" questions are for Yamaha. We can answer "how" questions.

A playlist entry loads a registration. That's the link. The playlist needs to know where to find the registration. Playlists that Yamaha creates look for the registration on USB1.

If you have more than one USB connected, the one with the playlist has to be USB1.

If you're computer literate, you can modify the playlist to work from the User drive, by changing the drive letter in the .tsv file.

Cheers,
Fred

[EileenL]

Yamaha designed the Play List to work from USB1. I have a 64 Gb USB in the underside of my keyboard which acts as a Backup for me. I also have the playlists on this. I never leave USB sticks in the other two ports on switch off. Therefore when I first switch on my internal stick always registers USB 1. Now I can add other sticks and they will be USB2 and three.

[Rich Z]

"Why" questions are for Yamaha. We can answer "how" questions.

A playlist entry loads a registration. That's the link. The playlist needs to know where to find the registration. Playlists that Yamaha creates look for the registration on USB1.

If you have more than one USB connected, the one with the playlist has to be USB1.

If you're computer literate, you can modify the playlist to work from the User drive, by changing the drive letter in the .tsv file.

Cheers,
Fred

Yeah, been around computers for a long time.

I am looking at a .tsv file and see line items in the format:

Frosty The Snowman   C:/REGIST/Christmas 48/0007_Frosty The Snowman.rgt   0   OFF

What does Drive C: designate hardware wise in the Genos?  And what drive letters are assigned to the USB slots when occupied?

If Drive C: is actually the internal storage and everything is stored on that drive, can I use relative pathing instead of absolute in the editing process?

[overover]

Hi Rich,

These are the drive letters used:

C:   internal User drive
D:   internal Preset drive (used e.g. in Registration Bank files)
I:   USB1
J:   USB2
K:   USB3

Note that the files in the internal User drive are not located directly in "root", but in one of the specified system folders (which are not directly visible on the Genos):

C:/Expansion
C:/MULTI PAD
C:/PLAYLIST
C:/REGIST
C:/SONG
C:/STYLE
C:/SYSTEM
C:/TEXT
C:/VOICE

Registration Bank files (.rgt) are always located in the Genos User drive in the "REGIST" system folder (C:/REGIST).

Note: The "Expansion" system folder in the User Drive is an exception. All files belonging to a Pack are located there in the respective sub-folders (regardless of the file type).


If you would copy the folder "Christmas 48", which contains the Registration Bank file "0007_Frosty The Snowman.rgt", from the Genos User drive  into the "root" of the USB stick, you would have to change the file path in the corresponding Playlist file (.tsv) to "I:/Christmas48/0007_Frosty The Snowman.rgt", so that the Playlist works correctly from the USB stick (when recognized as "USB1"). Note: You cannot work with relative file paths, only absolute file paths are allowed with the Genos.


The number "0" in your example is in the Playlist file in the "REGIST" column and indicates that the Registration button #1 will be activated when this Playlist record is called up.

"OFF" in the "OPENVIEWER" column of the Playist file means that neither the Text viewer nor the Lyrics viewer will open automatically.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[Rich Z]

Hi Rich,

These are the drive letters used:

C:   internal User drive
D:   internal Preset drive (used e.g. in Registration Bank files)
I:   USB1
J:   USB2
K:   USB3

Note that the files in the internal User drive are not located directly in "root", but in one of the specified system folders (which are not directly visible on the Genos):

C:/Expansion
C:/MULTI PAD
C:/PLAYLIST
C:/REGIST
C:/SONG
C:/STYLE
C:/SYSTEM
C:/TEXT
C:/VOICE

Registration Bank files (.rgt) are always located in the Genos User drive in the "REGIST" system folder (C:/REGIST).

Note: The "Expansion" system folder in the User Drive is an exception. All files belonging to a Pack are located there in the respective sub-folders (regardless of the file type).


If you would copy the folder "Christmas 48", which contains the Registration Bank file "0007_Frosty The Snowman.rgt", from the Genos User drive  into the "root" of the USB stick, you would have to change the file path in the corresponding Playlist file (.tsv) to "I:/Christmas48/0007_Frosty The Snowman.rgt", so that the Playlist works correctly from the USB stick (when recognized as "USB1"). Note: You cannot work with relative file paths, only absolute file paths are allowed with the Genos.


The number "0" in your example is in the Playlist file in the "REGIST" column and indicates that the Registration button #1 will be activated when this Playlist record is called up.

"OFF" in the "OPENVIEWER" column of the Playist file means that neither the Text viewer nor the Lyrics viewer will open automatically.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

Excellent! Thank you for this.  But I am a bit confused relating the above info with earlier comments made:

A playlist entry loads a registration. That's the link. The playlist needs to know where to find the registration. Playlists that Yamaha creates look for the registration on USB1.

If you have more than one USB connected, the one with the playlist has to be USB1.

If you're computer literate, you can modify the playlist to work from the User drive, by changing the drive letter in the .tsv file.

Cheers,
Fred

Yamaha designed the Play List to work from USB1. I have a 64 Gb USB in the underside of my keyboard which acts as a Backup for me. I also have the playlists on this. I never leave USB sticks in the other two ports on switch off. Therefore when I first switch on my internal stick always registers USB 1. Now I can add other sticks and they will be USB2 and three.

If that .tsv file is created using absolute pathing to the REGIST folder on the internal USER area (Drive C:) (which appears to be the case in all of the .MFD files I converted on the Genos), then it shouldn't matter where the PlayList folder resides since it will always be able to point directly to the registration files needed via that absolute coded path.  The registration file doesn't really care where it is being called from, does it?  Or am I just looking at this cockeyed?

Backing up a bit, I am presuming that the conversion app on the Genos, when converting a .MFD file to a PlayList file, creates a .tsv file in the folder that the .MFD file resides in (in my case the USB memory stick) AND also creates the .rgt files in the REGIST folder in the USER area as well. They are both packaged within that .MFD file.  Is that correct?

Sorry, I woke up with a headache this morning and haven't been able to shake it, so my own memory banks might be short circuited and I am not making any sense to the rest of the world.   

[Fred Smith]

Excellent! Thank you for this.  But I am a bit confused relating the above info with earlier comments made:

Rich,

You started this thread talking about two playlists:
I tried two:
PlaylistForGenosV2SuperiorPack
PlaylistForGenos

These playlists were created by Yamaha, and they look for their registrations on the USB drive. Hence my comment.

Now you've switched to a different playlist (which has Frosty the Snowman in it). It shouldn't be surprising it operates differently.

Cheers,
Fred

[EileenL]

I don't know why members like to over complicate things. As for playlists all you have to remember is that the very first USB you insert into Genos will read USB 1. That is the one you want the playlists on and they will work with no problem. Dose not matter at all what your drive letters are in your computer.

[Ronbo]

Hello Fred,

You mentioned that Yamaha playlists work from a USB. Did you mean to say that the Genos Playlist and the Superior playlist cannot be copied to the on board hard drive?

I copied them to the hard drive from a usb stick without a hitch; seemed to be no problem at all.  Of course the Usb was in the #1 slot, just to be clear.

I think others are wondering as well.

Could you help us out ?

Kindest regards,

Ron

[Fred Smith]

Hello Fred,

You mentioned that Yamaha playlists work from a USB. Did you mean to say that the Genos Playlist and the Superior playlist cannot be copied to the on board hard drive?

I copied them to the hard drive from a usb stick without a hitch; seemed to be no problem at all.  Of course the Usb was in the #1 slot, just to be clear.

I think others are wondering as well.

You can put a playlist anywhere and it will still run.

However, the target of the playlist (the registrations) have to be wherever the playlist is going to look for them.

So while you can move a playlist from a USB drive, for example, the registrations have to stay, or the playlist won't find them. I'm not sure what freedom this gives you if the USB stick still has to be plugged in.

Cheers,
Fred

[Rich Z]

Rich,

You started this thread talking about two playlists:
I tried two:
PlaylistForGenosV2SuperiorPack
PlaylistForGenos

These playlists were created by Yamaha, and they look for their registrations on the USB drive. Hence my comment.

Now you've switched to a different playlist (which has Frosty the Snowman in it). It shouldn't be surprising it operates differently.

Cheers,
Fred

Sorry! I didn't mean to have the goal posts all moving around here.  But in my defense, in my opening post I did say:

I bought the optional Lessons-2021 memory stick here and decided I would use the various .MFD files included and convert them to the Genos PlayList format with the internal conversion program.
]/quote] 

[Rich Z]

I don't know why members like to over complicate things. As for playlists all you have to remember is that the very first USB you insert into Genos will read USB 1. That is the one you want the playlists on and they will work with no problem. Dose not matter at all what your drive letters are in your computer.

Sorry, but if trying to understand how something works, and why, makes things appear complicated to some, I guess that is what I will have to put up with in order to makes heads or tails out of what I want to try to do. What I am trying to do is to put as many resources that the Genos can utilize on the internal storage space as is possible. This just seems like an intuitive and logical thing to do, IMHO.  If others prefer having such resources on USB sticks, then more power to them. It is just not the way I prefer to do things.  I tend to use USB sticks and external hard drives for backup and file transfers from one system to another. They are generally not as fast in file transfers than the internal memory and hard drives in typical systems I work with.  Plus it is really rare for me to misplace an internal hard drive, but with a USB stick, well, not so much. 

Again, sorry if my questions might irritate some people.  If this is not a discussion forum where such things can be discussed, then please let me know.

[Ronbo]

Hello Rich Z,

Here is what I did.

I downloaded the two files from Yamaha ,made sure they were unzipped. ( A Mac does this for you automatically.)

Then I loaded the unzipped files to a USB stick and then placed the stick into the genos .

Then I opened playlist and looked to see if the files were there on the stick. Finding them there, I proceeded to copy them and paste them to the User file,
Done,

Worked for me and I'm sure this will work for you.

So you will have the playlists where you want them-on the hard drive.

Regards

Ron

[overover]

... I am a bit confused relating the above info with earlier comments made:

... A playlist entry loads a registration. That's the link. The playlist needs to know where to find the registration. Playlists that Yamaha creates look for the registration on USB1. ...

If that .tsv file is created using absolute pathing to the REGIST folder on the internal USER area (Drive C:) (which appears to be the case in all of the .MFD files I converted on the Genos), then it shouldn't matter where the PlayList folder resides since it will always be able to point directly to the registration files needed via that absolute coded path.  The registration file doesn't really care where it is being called from, does it?  Or am I just looking at this cockeyed?

Hi Rich,

Fred means the "Bonus" Playlists made by Yamaha that can be downloaded from the download page of the respective keyboard (in the case of the Genos "Bonus Playlist for Genos" and "Yamaha Playlist Discover Genos").

With these Playlists, the unzipped Playlist folder has to be copied into the "root" of the USB stick, and the stick has to be mounted as "USB1" so that the contained Playlist files (.tsv) work (and can find the linked Registrations).

In the case of the zip file "PlaylistForGenos.zip", the folder "PlaylistForGenos" contained in it must be copied to the "root" of the USB stick. The sub-folders contained therein ("Ballroom" to "Trad & Folk") and the .rgt files contained therein may not be renamed or moved. Each of these sub-folders also contains one Playlist file (.tsv) in which the .rgt files of this sub-folder are linked. The file path for the song "Amapola" saved in the Playlist file "Genos Playlist Ballroom.tsv" is for example "I: /PlaylistForGenos/Ballroom/Amapola.rgt".

Note: The Playlist files (.tsv) can of course be moved or copied to another location. For example, I copied all .tsv files from the individual genre folders ("Ballroom", etc.) to the main folder "PlaylistForGenos" in order to have faster access to all the Playlist files contained. (See also the attached picture.)

Backing up a bit, I am presuming that the conversion app on the Genos, when converting a .MFD file to a PlayList file, creates a .tsv file in the folder that the .MFD file resides in (in my case the USB memory stick) AND also creates the .rgt files in the REGIST folder in the USER area as well. They are both packaged within that .MFD file.  Is that correct? ...

Yes, when importing a Music Finder file (.mfd) in the Playlist display on the Genos, the imported Music Finder Records will be converted to Registration Bank files (.rgt) and saved to a folder (with the same name as the imported file) in the User drive of the Genos. At the same time, a Playlist (.tsv) of the converted Registration Bank files (with the same name as the imported .mfd file) will be created in the USB flash drive. The Music Finder settings are registered to the Registration Memory #[1] for each Bank.

If desired, you can also copy the Playlist file (.tsv) from the USB stick to the Genos User drive. To do this, you have to be in Playlist mode. The Playlist file is then automatically placed in the "PLAYLIST" system folder in the User drive. You will find it there when you access the Genos User drive from your computer in USB storage mode.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rich Z]

FYI, I had someone send me the files and instructions of how to load those Yamaha registrations and playlists onto my USER internal drive. Went without a hitch.  I haven't taken the time to see what is different about those files, but for the record, suffice it to say that it most definitely is possible to do what I wanted.

Thanks!

[Fred Smith]

FYI, I had someone send me the files and instructions of how to load those Yamaha registrations and playlists onto my USER internal drive. Went without a hitch.  I haven't taken the time to see what is different about those files, but for the record, suffice it to say that it most definitely is possible to do what I wanted.

Certainly is. All you have to do is change the drive letter in the playlist tsv file.

Cheers,
Fred

[Rich Z]

Got another question in relation to the registrations files and banks.  After all was said and done and I have located and copied as many of the registration files into the USER area that I could find that seemed worthwhile looking at, I have an issue whenever I try to go into the registration section and the Tyros5 converted registration bank is selected. What happens is that the Genos goes into zombie mode with the message "Checking." displayed on the screen. And it will stay that way for 12 minutes. Seems to me it only happens after a fresh restart of the Genos, but I wouldn't swear to it. First time it happened I considered just shutting down the Genos, but since all other buttons on the keyboard appear to be disabled at that time, I am not sure I could have even done that.

So is this normal and just something that needs to be put up with in order to use those Tyros5 converted Playlist/registration files?  Or did something go south in the conversion process that I need to just do over again.  I don't know what the Genos is actually checking, but does it have to do it every time I might want to look at that particular registration folder?

And out of curiosity, what exactly is the Genos doing at that time, if anyone knows?

[Fred Smith]

That shouldn't be happening, Rich. What version of the OS are you running? If it's not 2.02, you should upgrade.

Cheers,
Fred

[Rich Z]

Yes, I am on version 2.02.

So what would be best to do at this point? Delete all of those Tyros5 converted files and try it again? Is there anything that I SHOULD do beforehand to make it work properly?

Thanks.

[EileenL]

Are you talking about the music finder files from Tyros 5 as Tyros 5 did not have play list function on it. They have to be converted into a playlist to work correctly. If you have just opened and saved these to a USB stick you will get the effect you describe.
  You have to access these files through pressing playlist button.
When music finder is converted each registration bank will only contain one filled button but you can add some of your own voice settings to it and then resave in playlist section.
  Have you downloaded the free playlist sets from the Genos download site. They are much better .

[Rich Z]

Yes, I did the Genos internal conversion process from the MFD file.  Just going to the newly created playlist folder via the PlayList button for those Tyros 5 entries doesn't cause a problem.  It is only when I manually go to the registration area on the Genos that it will go into that 12 minute hibernation state while "Checking."  Both the Tyros 5 Playlist folder and the Tyros 5 accompanying registration folder are in my USER area on the Genos.

[EileenL]

That is because the music Finder is only designed to work through playlist and not directly from User section. I would remove those files.

[Ronbo]

Rich Z

The same happens to me all the time. Usually I wait it out; 12 minutes, sometimes more.It's quite frustrating to say the least.

I have on occasion pulled the plug on Genos after waiting and waiting. I know that's bad for it ,but I just want to play some songs.

Rich, I've tried and tried everything you have.  You're not suffering alone

regards

Ron

[EileenL]

Hi Ron,
Are you selecting your files through Play List as this is the only way you will get it working as it is designed to.