A keyboard for lessons, lightweight, please help me decide.

[Toril S]

Dear musical friends in the E-section! I will soon take some keyboard lessons to improve my keyboard playing. The problem is that the school only have pianos, not keyboards. I have the PSR-S95, but to take such a heavy keyboard with me I would have to take taxi, and that is expensive. I have no car. So I am considering buying a simple, lightweight keyboard that I will be able to carry with me on the bus for use in the keyboard lessons. I looked at the PSR F51. It weighs only 3 kilos, and I can get it for only NOK 900. BUT it doesn't have touch sensitivity, and there is no socket for a sustain pedal. Are there other ultralight Yamaha keyboards that have touch sensitivity and sustain pedal option? I will use this keyboard only for lessons, so other features are not so important, but it must have styles. Or, is this a bad idea all together? The E series keyboards are more expensive, about NOK 3000. And they are maybe more heavy?

[3dc]

I would go with newer Yamaha PSR-E373 or even older PSR-E363. E463 is an unnecessary overkill. E373 weights less then 5 kg. Plenty of styles, voices, and even features to learn faster. These keyboards are actually standard for many training centers around the world. Finally once finished with lessons you can always get a good resell value. 

[Toril S]

Thanks a lot 3dc

[Normanfernandez]

Shouldn't we be coming to you for lessons.
You have plenty nice cover songs 

I'll also stick with the E series.
Touch Sensitive is very important.

Regards Norman.

[johan]

I have bought a second hand E433 to go to the music lessons. Weight is close to 7kg but I have a good bag so carrying it is not a big deal, at least not for a short distance. Advantage of the E433/E453/463 is that you can load extra styles into memory from USB stick so no need to connect the keyboard to a computer with the Yamaha Musicsoft Downloader (as is required for E3xx keyboard such as the E373). You can also save/load the registration memory on USB stick and play midi files directly from the stick.

[vbdx66]

Hi Toril,

Don't go for the PSR F51, it doesnt have touch sensitivity and a fine player as you are will tire very soon of this keybboard, wich is more of a toy.

Go for the E373 or any second-hand keyboard of the E4xx series. I had an E433 for years, it was a very nice keyboard and not heavy at all, very carriable. That said, the E373 might be fun with the SArt Light! voices and the DSPs. Also, it has an integrated digital audio interface, which means you can record yourself on a computer or iPad without further ado, which is very convenient.

Hope this helps,

Vinciane.

[jwyvern]

Hi Toril,

Just one or two thoughts as examples,
I think you need to be careful to define to yourself what features of playing you are aiming to improve upon.
If you are primarily interested in say the structure of music, scales, chording, harmony, reading the score etc. it is questionnable whether you need to take a keyboard (ie. Buy yet another one ) with you.
Why not use the tutor's piano for that, at least initially?

If your target is (beyond the above) to improve your playing via playing technique - bringing the best blending, expression and realism out of the calibre of voices and touch that are present on say Tyros 5 and Genos it is debateable (in my mind) whether taking an alternative very limited keyboard to the lessons would be that helpful. The voices will be limited, their response to touch will be different giving a totally different feel to your premium KB's.
Unless your tutors have good experience of playing keyboards you may need to come home for that and experiment on your own premium KB's IMO.

John

[Toril S]

Thank you so much Norman, Johan, Vinciane and John! I will take all your good advice into consideration!

[vbdx66]

Hi again Toril,

This demonstration video which was posted by Jeremy See just now might give you a more precise idea of the sounds and styles quality of the E373.

I think this is a great improvement from the previous generation of PSR E keyboards, esp. as far as the piano voice is concerned. I also think that the styles have become more realistic (but they still have only one Intro, two Variations and one Ending of course).

https://youtu.be/iX6lN1eI7qg

Enjoy 

Vinciane

[Toril S]

Thanks Vinciane! 

[mikf]

Toril
It really depends on what your goal is, but since the school only has pianos, and that will be their expertise, I have to assume that your lessons are about improving your playing. Because they would not be able to help you with things like keyboard operation and use. If that is the case, why carry anything, why not just use one of their pianos?? That would make more sense to me than taking along a very basic little keyboard to a piano teacher. In all honesty they will likely see it as a toy, not a real instrument.
Mike

[Toril S]

Thanks Mike! What I want to learn is more complex chords, play in other keys than the comfortable C and G, improve right hand skills. So yes, maybe it would do with a piano.  Here in Norway there are no lessons for auto comp keyboards like the ones we have. Ivknow the Yamaha have lessons in other countries, and that would be great. But I will have to take what I get.

[Genos!]

I don't know, Toril. I have a totally different take on things.

You really don't need to go anywhere to learn. Yes, one-on-one might probably be nice.


I see two avenue as alternatives... buy software to either assist you in your playing and training, or get with Norman or somebody online that you are comfortable with on the forum for training.

I don't see the reasoning behind buying a new/used keyboard that isn't the same as your main keyboard, and then lugging it around and having to travel on foot to lessons.


The lessons should come to you, either through technology, or via video/internet, etc.

[DonM]

Toril S, come to Louisiana and I'll give you free lessons.  I have plenty of arrangers too. 

[Toril S]

Thanks friends. Don, I would really like to do that😀

[Toril S]

Dear friends. Thanks a lot for all the good advice. I see that my idea of a little keyboard to lug back and forth to a place where the teachers teach piano is not such a good idea after all. I tried the little Yamaha PSR F51, and it sounded terrible. The E series keyboards sound good, but they are bigger, and the screens are small, not easy to operate for me with my low vision. I also did a
"lugging the keyboard test" using my old PSR-47, carried it in one hand, and had my guide dog Fryd in the other. The problem manifested itself at once, the keyboard bag was so long that the dog could not see around it, so she could not do her job. Someone should have made a video of us, the whole thing was awkward as could be. At least it gave me a good laugh!
Here is what I will do when I finally start attending the lessons: I wil start using the piano they have at school, and after some lessons with the piano, I will ask the teacher if he or she will be able to give me some imput when I use my keyboard. If they say yes, I will bring my PSR-S975 to the school and see how that goes. That way I can show the teacher how I play this keyboard, and explain what I would like to improve. The money I intended to spend on the extra little keyboard will be spent on texi then. I think this route is wiser

[andyg]

If they only have pianos at the school, it's possible (and I stress no more than possible!) that the teachers, though they may be red hot on piano, may not understand how keyboard is played and, more importantly, how it's taught. We all know that arranger keyboard is different to piano, being more akin to the home organ, which is its 'grandfather'. I've had to 'rescue' more than a few keyboard students after they've been taught by well qualified and well meaning piano teachers. Double check the suitability of the lessons offered - are they right for you.

I'd agree with the suggestion about on line teaching. I've been doing this very successfully since lockdown started over here, even the exams are on line. If your vision will allow this, using a laptop with a decent screen (though be honest it's your teacher's voice that's most important) then it's worth considering, and far less hassle.

[Toril S]

Thanks Andrew! My first instrument was the accordion. Therefore the arranger keyboard is perfect for me. On the piano my left hand just gets lost😀

[vbdx66]

Hi Toril,

Another idea just crossed my mind. If you're looking for keyboard lessons and you're considering learning online you might look at the keyboard lessons by Jeremy See :

https://www.jeremysee.com/keyboard-course

Hope this helps,

Vinciane

[Toril S]

Thanks Vinciane! Will do😀

[mcbrown]

I use https://pianoforall.com/ which I have found very helpful as I am originally a guitar player.

Murray

[Toril S]

Thanks Murray!

[Toril S]

Hello friends This matter has taken an unexpected turn: We have got new, strict corona restrictions here again, and a total lockdown is looming in the near future. My best friend has always wanted to learn to play an instrument, and called me this evening to tell that she bought the Yamaha PSR F51! She asked for some lessons from me pr. phone, and I said yes of course! So guess what I did, I bought an F51, so that I can teach her its features! When I heard the sound I almost fainted. But the sound is mostly due to the lousy! speakers. It is a great beginner keyboard. Maybe I will keep it as a curiousity, or maybe give it to a child later on. In the meantime it will be fun to give some lessons to my friend

[Genos!]

Isn't it nice that life always goes the way you plan :sarcasm:...

Ok... so if you have speakers on your Genos, run two short ts audio cables from your new keyboard into the aux ins of the Genos. Then turn the Genos volume up to normal (maybe 1/2), turn the F51 volume all the way down and start playing on it while turning the F51 volume up slowly.

Hopefully the F51 will sound a lot better through the Genos, but possibly not. At least worth a try.

And there is nothing I know of keeping you from still doing lessons over the internet.

[vbdx66]

Hi Toril,

This is quite unheard of! You must be one of the very few players to have both a Genos and a F51 

When your friend gets bored with the F51 and when she'll get hooked to keyboard playing (with you as a teacher this shan't be a problem LoL  ), I'd strongly suggest upgrading to the PSR E373.

Here too we are facing a complete lockdown. Playing a music instrument, reading books, cooking... are good derivatives I guess.

Take care,

Vinciane

[Normanfernandez]

Yamaha most expensive and cheapest Keyboard 

[Toril S]

Thanks Vinciane😀 I suspect the F51 will have a short stay in my home. But you never know, I like to collect things, so maybe it stays😀

[panos]

Meanwhile Toril,
you can watch and listen to this lady the way she is approaching music and the way she is teaching:
https://www.youtube.com/c/KarenRamirez91200/videos

Last month I watched  the "play by ear" lessons and I really liked them.

In general, there are many of lessons on Youtube to search for a specific part of music theory that you want to learn more.

Of course a good keyboard/piano teacher that can see where we need help the most, is always irreplaceable   

[Toril S]

Thanks Panos! Yes, there are many good teachers on YT, and I already follow some of them.

[vbdx66]

Hi Panos,

The lessons by Karen Ramirez are indeed very interesting. Many years ago they helped me to understand the intricacies of chords, chord progressions and how they relate to auto-accompaniment on an organ or a keyboard. Very nicely taught and very useful.

Regards,

Vinciane