Genos 2

[soryt]

When wil there be a succesor for the Genos , after 3 years its time 

S 

[Toril S]

We already have it😀 No need for new hardware, we have it updated! So now it is Genos 2😀

[EileenL]

I don't think we will see a new model for some time yet. Probably have some more updates.

[Toril S]

I think updating is the right way to go. Why a new shell?

[Fred Smith]

When wil there be a succesor for the Genos , after 3 years its time 

There will be a successor. It won't be in three years. Probably five, maybe even six.

Cheers,
Fred

[musicman01]

Apparently there is someone who is a bit behind!
We already had the Genos 2, or did you forget to upgrade it?

[lut112]

Yamaha should include Genos as a master keyboard for DAWs in the next update - assigning and sending all Control Change (1-127) and Program Change controllers

[ton37]

There will be a successor. It won't be in three years. Probably five, maybe even six.

Cheers,
Fred

Mmm.. I wonder, how can the music-division of Yamaha make money then in the coming 1/2 years? Don't think mr. Nakata would accept that ;-))

[Fred Smith]

Mmm.. I wonder, how can the music-division of Yamaha make money then in the coming 1/2 years? Don't think mr. Nakata would accept that ;-))

They are going to sell more Genos 1's. They will do this by introducing new features in the software, which they've been doing since its release. Much more profitable strategy.

Cheers,
Fred

[EileenL]

Yes Fred I agree.

[Toril S]

So do I!

[Gunnar Jonny]

.. They will do this by introducing new features in the software, which they've been doing since its release.

That remain to see. Is there any room for much more (major) softwarebased updates, or is hardware additions nessesary?
Also it may be a question about if Yamaha are going to continue develope 'the arranger way' as we know it. 🤔

[Des O]

I could be wrong but the way I see it, the price of the genos has not fallen, its a much sought after keyboard so I would suspect an expansion to it, like an add on box that would allow synth sounds like MODX to be played if not already. A cheaper and more profitable option at this time, as the world goes into a recession not much money about to spend on an complete new entertainment device, especially when the Genos has not been fully utilised to its full advantage and capabilities as yet. Just my opinion

[valimaties]

Is there any room for much more (major) softwarebased updates, or is hardware additions nessesary?

Hey, of course it is... By coding, you could do a lot of things, but as Francesco said, the politics of Yamaha block software developers to make this keyboard more friendly to user (software speaking)... They could make a lot of things, in style "world", voice open-projects for user - full functions, including SA, SA2, Revo...
But Yamaha don't want this, because there are a lot of users which are "sit and play" users, which does not need a full function keyboard, because they don't know what to do whit those functions! But they don't realize that are a lot of advanced users which will make some great free-content if those functions will be available to people

No comment

Regards,
Vali

[Luluc]

Hello all,

My Genos is my first arranger keyboard and its a great device.
I have still to discover and learn all the resources of this keyboard. So, as probably other users, I'm not ready to buy a new physical Genos 2.
As already said by others members, the present Genos can be easily updated to offer new software features.

[Bachus]

When wil there be a succesor for the Genos , after 3 years its time 

S 

The Genos will last atleast 3 more years.. with probably 2 more software updates (2.5 and 3.0)

Every 3 years new instruments is something from the past.
Technollogy advancement is slowly coming to a halt.
So new gear just takes longer..

[ton37]

I would be surprised if, after setting up a new line (Genos / SX), Yamaha would stop developing new hardware (Genos 2/3). If Yamaha is going to look for 'modular' software or hardware, they will have to make a more flexible concept than the current line. Updates alone will not earn Yamaha any money for the time being. In addition, there are a number of hardware requirements of the users / customers, which Yamaha must take into account. Money is needed for this further development. That money can only be generated with the proceeds of a new keyboard etc. etc. That's how Yamaha did it and why shouldn't Yamaha continue to follow that path? The company, like any other company, has to take its profit to continue to exist .. Just my two cents ;-)

[Lee Batchelor]

Food for thought here.

Like all "computers," does not the Genos suffer from the same affliction? That is, it can only tolerate a certain amount of software updates before the software updates exceed the physical limitations of the keyboard? There is one universal constant about computers and that is as the software develops, there is a need for faster computing speed and more memory. Eventually, the required changes will exceed the Genos' ability to tolerate any more updates. Hence, Genos II will be born. It's just a matter of time and probably sooner than we think. I'd wager Genos II has already been built and is in the hands of a few Yamaha beta testers.

There is no money for Yamaha in doling out free upgrades. Most of the upgrades have been designed to solve problems with a few nice added features that should have been there in the first place. Yamaha needs to sell new hardware. That's where the profit is. Yamaha is not in the business of making musical instruments. They are in the business of making money. The instruments are simply the means by which they achieve their goals.

[Toril S]

Do you think Genos 2 will come in a 61 keys version?

[Fred Smith]

Do you think Genos 2 will come in a 61 keys version?

No, I don't. I think Yamaha have settled on a configuration where:
Clavinova = 88 keys
Genos = 76 keys
PSR = 61 keys

Only time will tell, but this is my opinion.

Cheers,
Fred

[Fred Smith]

There is no money for Yamaha in doling out free upgrades. Most of the upgrades have been designed to solve problems with a few nice added features that should have been there in the first place. Yamaha needs to sell new hardware. That's where the profit is. Yamaha is not in the business of making musical instruments. They are in the business of making money. The instruments are simply the means by which they achieve their goals.

There is money in free software upgrades if it sells more product. Especially product which is cheap to produce where the design and setup costs have been paid for. That's why I think Yamaha will milk the Genos for a few more years, getting people to buy by showing that they get free enhancements as time goes on. Which is great for those of us who have a Genos, as we get the enhancements free too.

Cheers,
Fred

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed Fred, but they can only offer a set amount of free upgrades before all this free stuff exceeds the physical limitations of the Genos. Only then will we see Genos II. The upgrades are mostly needed fixes.

[DerekA]

Food for thought here.

Like all "computers," does not the Genos suffer from the same affliction? That is, it can only tolerate a certain amount of software updates before the software updates exceed the physical limitations of the keyboard? There is one universal constant about computers and that is as the software develops, there is a need for faster computing speed and more memory. Eventually, the required changes will exceed the Genos' ability to tolerate any more updates.

Yamaha is not in the business of making musical instruments. They are in the business of making money. The instruments are simply the means by which they achieve their goals.

I would love to see more software updates - I might even be willing to pay for them - but I agree, limits will be hit, such as the size of the expansion memory board.

You're right about making money. I remember a manager about 30 years ago saying "If [the company I worked for] could make more money selling Mars bars, then we should stop what we're doing and start selling Mars bars"

[soundphase]

I would love to see more software updates - I might even be willing to pay for them - but I agree, limits will be hit, such as the size of the expansion memory board.

You're right about making money. I remember a manager about 30 years ago saying "If [the company I worked for] could make more money selling Mars bars, then we should stop what we're doing and start selling Mars bars"

If France some big companies try to define their "raison d'être" to avoid to propagate this poor financial vision of our world. But doing this could also be considered as a marketing action for reputation and then for money...
Nevertheless, I think a company that only has money in mind can't live a long time ... Genos is more the result of music passion and electronic expertise than commercial and financial activities.

[EileenL]

Yes you are right. Yamaha have a passion for producing musical instruments of all kinds, not just keyboards and they want them to be good. Off course they need to make money to pay for all the expenses running a company like this involve and they must also show a profit. What is wrong with that.
  If you are going to go around thinking that all Yamaha want is your money then don't buy Yamaha products. Such an easy solution.

[keynote]

I think we need to look to the past as a strategy/pattern for the future. Yamaha, Roland, and Korg i.e. the Big Three have used a fairly structured business model which apparently suits them best. They have updated previous keyboards with not only OS updates but also new hardware versions of existing keyboards. Tyros 1 led to Tyros 2, Tyros 3, etc. Now the Genos is basically a new concept arranger workstation keyboard that was built from the ground up. It is currently the Crème de la Crème of arranger keyboards in my opinion. But so was the Tyros 5 when it was introduced back in 2013 although it was basically a cosmetic update to the Tyros 4 with better sounds and a 76 key version. Four years later the Genos was released. So what's my point?

I think there will be a Genos 2 but like others have suggested probably not in 2020. I do expect a new Montage at Winter NAMM 2021 but that's beside the point. I suspect Yamaha could release the Genos 2 at the beginning or end of 2022... right around the holidays. Usually that's how the pattern usually manifests. First a new TOTL traditional workstation keyboard is released i.e. Montage etc.  Then a year or so later a new top-of-the-line Arranger is announced. This is basically how the Big Three have operated since day one although not always on a three year update timeline.  If the past is any indication of the future then Yamaha and the others will probably continue rolling out new hardware versions of existing keyboard products as well as original concept keyboards built from scratch like the new YC61. 

All the best,

Mike

PS: A Latin song created on my Genos for your enjoyment : Latin Pop I live in the U.S. but relatively close to the Mexican border town of Tijuana if that helps. 

[chony]

The Korg Pa4x was released in 2015 and there's no new model in sight.

I do wish there was a Genos 2 because there are quite a few hardware changes Id like to see, but I can't see it happening for another few years...

The most important hardware changes id like are:
- more assignable buttons
- hardware buttons for style folders (like Yamaha reverted back to on the sx900).
- rotary knobs that don't have a beginning and end
- more memory

But I've learned to live without the convenience for now.

[Bachus]

The Korg Pa4x was released in 2015 and there's no new model in sight.

I do wish there was a Genos 2 because there are quite a few hardware changes Id like to see, but I can't see it happening for another few years...

The most important hardware changes id like are:
- more assignable buttons
- hardware buttons for style folders (like Yamaha reverted back to on the sx900).
- rotary knobs that don't have a beginning and end
- more memory

But I've learned to live without the convenience for now.

Hardware buttons for style folders is a bad idea..
I want less buttons that are multi functional..

Much like on the montage... the 32 buttons to the right..

The other 3 are a good idea..
But enough to warrant the building of a new instrument

[Lee Batchelor]

If you are going to go around thinking that all Yamaha want is your money then don't buy Yamaha products. Such an easy solution.

Agreed, Eileen. On the other hand, make no mistake about it, even Yamaha despite their amazing devotion to promoting music throughout the world through their hardware, still puts profits way ahead of anything else. Every company does it. Yamaha is no different.

Thirty or forty years ago, engineers in most companies presented ideas on how to build products so that the company could achieve a fair market share. Management was guided by the engineer's ideas. It's totally different today. The engineers sit in the background while the marketing and accounting people tell the management what to do. I spent 25 years working in a multimillion-dollar company. I assure you, the marketing guys and bean counters are in charge! As good as Yamaha is at preserving music through their near-perfect instruments, making money is their primary goal. Some companies suck at it. Yamaha excels. Times have changed, even for Yamaha.

[Bachus]

I think we need to look to the past as a strategy/pattern for the future. Yamaha, Roland, and Korg i.e. the Big Three have used a fairly structured business model which apparently suits them best. They have updated previous keyboards with not only OS updates but also new hardware versions of existing keyboards. Tyros 1 led to Tyros 2, Tyros 3, etc. Now the Genos is basically a new concept arranger workstation keyboard that was built from the ground up. It is currently the Crème de la Crème of arranger keyboards in my opinion. But so was the Tyros 5 when it was introduced back in 2013 although it was basically a cosmetic update to the Tyros 4 with better sounds and a 76 key version. Four years later the Genos was released. So what's my point?

I think there will be a Genos 2 but like others have suggested probably not in 2020. I do expect a new Montage at Winter NAMM 2021 but that's beside the point. I suspect Yamaha could release the Genos 2 at the beginning or end of 2022... right around the holidays. Usually that's how the pattern usually manifests. First a new TOTL traditional workstation keyboard is released i.e. Montage etc.  Then a year or so later a new top-of-the-line Arranger is announced. This is basically how the Big Three have operated since day one although not always on a three year update timeline.  If the past is any indication of the future then Yamaha and the others will probably continue rolling out new hardware versions of existing keyboard products as well as original concept keyboards built from scratch like the new YC61. 

All the best,

Mike

PS: A Latin song created on my Genos for your enjoyment : Latin Pop I live in the U.S. but relatively close to the Mexican border town of Tijuana if that helps. 

I disagree that Genos was build up from scratch..
Genos is essentially a Tyros 6, with a new user interface on top of it.

All the age old quircks are still there under the hoof
Its needed for backward compatibility
But its also holding Yamaha back in going forward..

There is nothing build up from the ground with the Genos.
Its the same old wine just in a more luxurious bottle..
Luckilly the wine still tastes good..

But there is so many things holding trough innovation at bay, and that will stay as long as there is full legacy support..


Is there an easy way around this for developers
No there isn't..

My best bet is that they could give people options to choose old or new...

For example , if the develop a totally new styles format, with many many things like dynamic accomapniments and audio tracks other then drums, and maybe even a totally different layout, they have to build 2 engines for style inside,... the old one and the new one... depending on the file type, the Arranger would choose the right engine..  you could even have 3 or 4 of these auto accompaniment engines..

If you want a more modern sequencers, you need to keep the old one and the audio player, while developing somethingbnew that combines midi and audio tracks like a daw... and maybe even supprts clip launching..


And then there is the panel voices, the left hand voice being part of the style is also one of those things, holding the Genos back... you could offer the olld 3right one left as a basic interface... and have an 8 part modern montage like setup as a pro interface...

To overcome the legacy problems, you need to start new from scratch.. and offer legacy support as a sepperate service...  with the current touch screen interfaces this would very well be possible..