Love - Hate my SX-900

[hammer]

I really do like the sound of my SX-900 but I play several live gigs each week with it and there are some problems I can't seem to solve that really get in the way of a first class professional job.   Here goes:

1st:  There is a severe unbalance between style parts and the RH lead voices making
        the RH lead voice impossible to hear.
2nd:  The sound level of variations in many styles is very bad - meaning, a change of
         a variation will often produce a very loud style sound level.
3rd:  Many of the string voices are very hard to play short rhythm patterns because             the default reverb levels are way too high.

I understand some of these problems can be adjusted by tweaking various style parts and RH lead voices - which I have done on some styles.  My complaint is what is Yamaha thinking?   NONE of any of the other Yamaha keyboards I have owned had this problem.  In fact, twice I unboxed a new keyboard and took it out the door to a live gig and it was just fine.  As a Yamaha customer I really don't have the time or the desire to sit for hours tweaking things that should have been corrected at the factoy before shipping a product.

However, if anyone has any ideas I am open to trying whatever.

Deane

[jtrue]

I don't think problem #1 is anything new.  Both my old PSR-S900 and PSR-S910 had to have the style level set to about 78 or 80 vs. RH voice level at 100 to sound properly balanced.

  j.

[rcpilot]

Deane,
I agree with you all that should be tested and corrected in final test/QC.....I really miss the slider on the Korg that adj the balance between style and RH voices in general....Yamaha should add that feature...it's nice as you can adj during a song to bring up the melody if wanted...

They should fix all that and do an update...
Send the details to appropriate Yamaha customer support.

Lee

[ton37]

Deane,
I agree with you all that should be tested and corrected in final test/QC.....I really miss the slider on the Korg that adj the balance between style and RH voices in general....Yamaha should add that feature...it's nice as you can adj during a song to bring up the melody if wanted...

They should fix all that and do an update...
Send the details to appropriate Yamaha customer support.

Lee

Ofcourse is isn't good if some styles are not quite balanced from preset styles. I'have not noticed yet, but I can imagine that in your live gigs this is annoying. I agree with Lee to let this know to Yamaha. If you have some examples, please let us know so that we can listen to what you meant @Deane. Btw. do you use registrations or OTS in such cases?

@Lee: Could it be helpful to use the LIVE CONTROL KNOB. Setting ie.: KNOB1 > BALANCE (and definite in BALANCE SETTING which you want to be 'balanced' . See A and B (more can be ticked) settings. Tmo. this works the same as a slider?
This could be set/save in a 'Default Registration Bank' for future needs?

[andyg]

I can't think of any Yamaha keyboards that haven't had this issue. Having all the on screen 'sliders' set to 100 may look neat but never sound right. Style goes down to maybe 85 and R1 up to 105 or 110, leaving a bit in reserve.

The overall solution is simple enough, if you're using registrations. Simply create a 'Blank' registration with all the balances, keysplits, fingering mode etc etc. Use that as a starting point for all the registrations you create. It's the first thing I teach when explaining how to use registrations.

Yes, I agree, a balance slider would be very handy for on the fly changes but the fact remains that in 20 years of performing with Yamaha keyboards, I've been very fussy with registrations (and for many years before keyboards were invented!) and so I've never needed one.

I find that ,ost of the Yamaha styles are balanced reasonably enough, but some of the third party and  converted styles are not, and need a thorough work-over, revoice and rebalance before you ever think of using them for real!

[Bernie9]

I really haven't found the volume imbalance Deane has,but I still want control of part volume.  Most commonly,my left volume is a little low,and since I always have it on,I assign a button to Volume,and check Left at the bottom.  I don't memorize the live button on any songs,so they stay as is.

Bernie

[EileenL]

I have not noticed any great in balance and I think the OTS on this keyboard are a great improvement to how they used to be. You really can play it straight from the box. Just watch Richard Bowers video on U Tube it is really good. I know Richard quite well and know he is doing exactly what he says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFVihDuBzrQ

[rcpilot]

Yes...you can use one of the live knobs for balance....as suggested....
I have one set for that now....
Lee

[Pino]

I agree, looks to me that the styles on the SX has been put together in a hurry to get the machine out to the market, some styles have been re-worked and re-balanced, for some reason, when they sounded better before, I play the SX900-975-950-910 regularly, it took me a long time to get this SX stage ready, longer than any past keyboard.

I have the 'reverb' on Live Control 2 for quick re-balance on a gig.

My biggest gripe is not having the 'Music Finder' as we did on past models, every style that has ever been written is based on some song or songs, now they don't tell us what the intended song or songs were. - Music Finder will probably be back on the SX950.

Apart from that - it's a winner.

Pino

[EileenL]

Have you not save the music finder file of one of the keyboards to playlist. You will then have all the song titles.

[Fred Smith]

Have you not save the music finder file of one of the keyboards to playlist. You will then have all the song titles.

Good idea, Eileen.

The Music Finder is not coming back. Playlists are the future.

Cheers,
Fred

[Pino]

I think Music Finder will be back but YAMAHA didn't have enough time to sort it out

Before we had a "Repertoire" button, so handy.
I play medleys, 3 songs on the same style
Just press the Repertoire button gives you a list of songs for the style.
Quick and easy.

I miss the whole 'Music Finder' thing
Songs 'same tempo', 'same style', so easy
What the point of putting 100s of styles on a keyboard if we have limited information on the styles.

Someone spent time to write these styles and had some songs in mind, but we didn't have that information, it's an arranger keyboard running on styles, I expect better from YAMAHA, and these keyboards are not cheap.

It's like someone binging in a box full of spare parts for your car and we have to guess where they go,



Pino

[DerekA]

Interesting pino.

Everyone uses these features in a different way. Your use case was 'what else can I do with this style' which playlist doesn't support. Your best bet would be to create a registration named after the style and use the slots for different songs and voices. The registration search function would find the registration when you wanted to play other songs.

Not quite what you wanted but not a bad alternative?

[DerekA]

Actually even better, registration search has a filter by style name which is even better than repertoire, because it will find any reg anywhere on the machine.

[panos]

I suppose that for the levels between styles and Right/Left hand voices,
when the key"initial" touch is involved,
whatever you do you can not know if the keyboardist is playing gently and softly or he is banging hard at the keys or because he is also playing the piano is used to play with more strength with his fingers.

The first one should chooses the "Soft  2" setting, the second ones the "Hard 2" setting.

There is also the third one kind of keyboardist that doesn't use the initial touch key so for him the Right/Left hand voices are pretty loud.

Another thought is that people have different preferences on how loud the right/left hand voices(or even a singer's voice) should be compared to the rest of the band:
10% 20% or 30% higher volume? What is the correct balance?

Wrong OTS,no info for the styles,unbalanced styles(any example that we can hear?),too much reverb....
I would rather preferred a used psr s 650 where I can choose how the styles and voices will sound, rather than a new Genos with fixed on board styles and OTS made by other people's taste.
And I cannot blame someone for his taste. 

[stephenm52]

 

Good idea, Eileen.

The Music Finder is not coming back. Playlists are the future.

Cheers,
Fred

Plus one

[rgw]

1st:  There is a severe unbalance between style parts and the RH lead voices making
        the RH lead voice impossible to hear.
2nd:  The sound level of variations in many styles is very bad - meaning, a change of
         a variation will often produce a very loud style sound level.
3rd:  Many of the string voices are very hard to play short rhythm patterns because             the default reverb levels are way too high.



Deane

I absolutely agree with you Hammer. I have the same problem on my SX900. I too have owned the S900 and S910 and never had such variations as there are on the SX900. Some of the preset sounds are almost inaudible and some of the style variations are extremely loud. I'm spending a lot of my time making adjustments. But overall Ilove the SX900.

[EileenL]

I suppose we all have our own way of setting up our keyboards and there touch sensitivity. I was always told to treat the backing of a song as the bed for the melody to lie on. Therefore it had to be slightly louder. I think with the new technology we have to produce life like sounds we are sometimes thrown of track a bit on how things used to be. Styles are made so that as you move from A to D they increase in there velocity as a song dose as it moves along creating that big finish. Some style parts I find to quite and adjust them so it suits my taste. That is where these keyboards are so good because you can put your own stamp on them and create your own registration banks that suit you and what you are doing.
Always a little time spent on setting things up really dose pay off. We are all different and things like OTS and playlists are only meant to be a rough guide of what can be done. I myself have never used a Music Finder because I like to do things my way.

[Pino]

I myself have never used a Music Finder because I like to do things my way.

Eileen, I want to ask you,
If you heard a good song on the radio and decided that you wanted to play that song how would you go about it?

Pino

[Patrick]

Hi, as Pino said, be carefull of the live control knob because it can assign a lot of change on your style, voices, .... each time you press live control button you've some new settings on the live control 1 and 2; theses settings are recorded in your registration banks and this can change your settings! So check the settings of the live control 1 and 2 adjust the level and then save in the registration. On the SX900, you can control everything with the 2 live control knob, the 6 assignable buttons, the 6 shortcuts, the 2 others assignable buttons for the joystick. For each registration you can assign the settings you want! examples; volume of the Left voice of the style; volume of the rythlme 1 and 2 of the style, volume of the microphone, volume of the R1, R2 and R3 voices, style  mute rythme A,, reverb on the R1 voice, effects on the voices, ....... so much to do! Well i wish you a nice moment on the new SX900, cheers Patrick

[Pino]

Deane
I don't think that there is real answer to your post.
I went through all my song registrations and edited them one by one,
It's time consuming but that's the only way.
I have all the styles form previous keyboards on my USB stick
Sometime a style from the 950 or 975 sounds better,

Stephenm22,
I notice that the Majority of your posts are —- 'like he said" or +1 or "plus 1" (lightweight)
Wouldn't it be better if you came back with some real suggestions or alternative ways of doing things our keyboards, or even start your own topic occasionally,

Re: Music Finder
I heard a song on the radio yesterday and wanted to play it.
I downloaded the song from YouTube to my SX and tapped the tempo to 110 ish
Did a search on the SX for a style to match, it was just a waste of time.

Then I went to my 975, to the Music Finder/ style tempo,
And was Immediately able to listen to some suitable styles at tempo 110
in 5 minutes was able to find exactly the beat and the groove of the song.

Just saying - why not have a 'Style List" along side the "Play List"
Look the new 'Style List' button in the photo.
Yamaha could do this in a few hours, if they wanted to.

Pino





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[EileenL]

If I hear a song on the radio I like I probably look for it on U tube so I can listen to it a few times. I then try out a few styles to see which one I like best and away I go. I don't look to record cover versions but like to play it my way and put my own stamp on it. I can usually find a style that comes close.

[Dnj]

Deane I thought you were using the ketron sd module and a controller kb as your main gig rig?

how do you compare it to the sx900?

[stephenm52]

Sometime a style from the 950 or 975 sounds better

Stephenm22,
I notice that the Majority of your posts are —- 'like he said" or +1 or "plus 1" (lightweight)
Wouldn't it be better if you came back with some real suggestions or alternative ways of doing things our keyboards, or even start your own topic occasionally,
Pino

Pino first it's StephenM52 not 22 and I do have a suggestion if you're not happy with the SX900 maybe you should use the s970 or s975 if they are more in line what you are looking for.   Also I've noticed in the past you seem to have a tendency to complain what's wrong, maybe it would be better to concentrate on what's right with these amazing arrangers we use.

[Fred Smith]

Re: Music Finder
I heard a song on the radio yesterday and wanted to play it.
I downloaded the song from YouTube to my SX and tapped the tempo to 110 ish
Did a search on the SX for a style to match, it was just a waste of time.

Then I went to my 975, to the Music Finder/ style tempo,
And was Immediately able to listen to some suitable styles at tempo 110
in 5 minutes was able to find exactly the beat and the groove of the song.

Just saying - why not have a 'Style List" along side the "Play List"
Look the new 'Style List' button in the photo.
Yamaha could do this in a few hours, if they wanted to.

Pino,

Yes, Yamaha could support a "Style List", but so can we.

I agree that when looking for a style for a new song, starting by tempo is best. So what I did was create an Excel file with the style, category, beat and default tempo. Whenever I was looking for an appropriate style, I would determine the tempo, sort the Excel file, and and start testing out styles that had a similar tempo.

It works for me.

Cheers,
Fred

[mikf]

The default tempo on the pre -set is not the important thing. It is largely irrelevant because all styles can be played at any tempo, and within reason they will usually still sound OK. Trick is finding the style with the right feel. Experience will usually allow you to narrow it down.
Use this method to find a style quickly - Tap the tempo you want, guess a style, and start it with a LH chord, hum the tune to yourself, see how it sounds. Without stopping the accompaniment, change to another style, keep humming the tune, keep playing a LH chord and cycling thru possible styles till you find the best fit. Using this method and a little bit of common sense filtering, you can find a few styles that fit in a minute or two. Once down to just a few, continue to narrow it to the best fit.
Also remember that you may not always want to try to emulate exactly a recorded version of the song, you can use this method to find styles for the way you want to play it.
Mike

[rikkisbears]

The default tempo on the pre -set is not the important thing. It is largely irrelevant because all styles can be played at any tempo, and within reason they will usually still sound OK. Trick is finding the style with the right feel. Experience will usually allow you to narrow it down.

Hi,
tempo wouldn't be a criteria for me either.
On my Korg for instance, some of the old musicals, show tunes , I enjoy playing, I wouldn't have found a style suitable if I hadn't altered the tempo, in some  instances nearly halved. It left the the main intro/ending unusable, but, at least I had a style that worked.
One would be leaving out  quite a few styles that might be perfect, just for the sake of tempo.
If I'm not sure about what will work, I mute tracks and just audition the song with bass and drums, then bring in the others.
Genre of the styles has a bit to do with it too. Is it a Ballad, is it a swing/jazz, is it a show tune, is it country.
I normally wouldn't bother going thru country styles looking for a style to play a Glen Miller big band classic.
One can certainly narrow down their search  by choosing the type of genre that would suit the song .

[panos]

Here is a video playlist made by Michael (from Bonners)
in which he is showing the styles from the Pop & Rock,Dance and R&B folders of the PSR SX900.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8asJgitc3c&list=PLRDUXwipH3Rq1foQinzMlkAwga90IOLmm

From what I can hear although I don't have any of the newer models,
the styles of the SX900 are much closer to the Genos than to the s970 (or s975).
Probably because of the newer equalization and the overall sound of the SX and of course because of the new kind of drum kits.

I have downloaded a pdf list that one of our members uploaded in the past with style suggestions for some songs for the preset styles of Genos.
If you listen to a style and you now the song you can understand sometimes pretty easily for which song this style is about.
But of course because the intros and endings (on purpose) are not identical to the original songs you can use those styles for other songs too.
My thanks to the member that made that list, sorry for not remembering who he was
https://app.box.com/s/szcpmeurq8mti1llr4up2t9gflarr8lc  

I may not have the dots,don't know the chords but finding a suitable preset style or style parts for playing a song it is not that hard.It should be there on a folder somewhere.
I had just 135 styles on my Dgx.That was it.Had to be creative if I wanted to play a song 

Edit
You can also import Music Finder from an older model and convert it to a playlist on the SX900(see chapter Playlist in the reference manual):

By importing Music Finder Records used on previous Yamaha keyboards (such as the PSR-S975/S775), you can use the Records on the Playlist of the PSR-SX900/SX700, just like using the Music Finder function on those other instruments.For details on using Music Finder, refer to the Owner's Manual of the Yamaha keyboard which contains your desired Music Finder Records

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/7/1279207/psrsx900_sx700_en_rm_a0.pdf 

Tony is showing how it is done on a Genos in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nB6ntNgJhM

[Pino]

Stephenm52
Apologies if I mis-spelt your 'user name'. Wasn't intentional. 

There is a difference between complaining and trying to improve something.
If you read my post above on this page you will read -
"apart from the MusicFinder the SX is a winner"

It is known that Yamaha occasionally takes a look around this forum.
If we post that everything is great and brilliant then we are not going to get much in improvements in the next model, I see dozens of posts for improvements to Genos, that is in hope that someone from Yamaha is checking out this forum and taking note.

Would you complain if the next SX had 10,000 'song to style' database?

There must be some thing on one of your keyboards that you think would be done better in a different way, if we don't suggest improvements then nothing will change.

Pino

[Enildo]

Hi guys!

On how to find the right style for the right music, I don't need a "music finder", I never did and for me it doesn't make any difference whether the keyboard has this feature or not.
I like to listen to all the styles of the keyboard, even though I don't know any music that fits that style, and I play with the style at different times. I like to listen to all the intros as well as all the finishes of all stages of the keyboard one by one, and any music I listen to on the radio or youtube, I already have a sense of what style to use, and I have no trouble finding a good style. Sometimes it is even better than the original song. I think that the musician X instrument lacks a greater intimacy. I realize, both here in Brazil, as in other countries, that people have this difficulty and I think that this is due to the fact that people do not know the potential of styles that the keyboard has and some are addicted to using playlists, with appropriate styles or "Music Finder".

Enildo